johnsch322

As far as I can see there has been no such ruling and I believe there will be no rulings until Monday.

I am not exactly sure how to address this except to say the BSA has definitely has not acted benevolently towards any victim in its history. They chose to keep all that they knew as secret as possible (the perversion files started in the 1920's). They had to be sued and it took the Oregon Supreme Court order to make the files brought to light. Every victim was more than likely a dues paying Boy Scout, just like the Scouts of today. The image of the Boy Scouts became more important than the individuals including the non abused. The actions that have been brought forward are against the institution not against the individuals. Imagine a different scenario 40 years ago or 4 years if the BSA had recognized and conceded that it had a problem and debt owed to former scouts who had been victimized. Then on their own volition sold off the art, disposed of excess camps, turned to the LC's and said hey you will contribute XX amount of billions or we will cancel your charter, said the same to the CO's, and set up a system to help victims go after the insurance company's and or forced/negotiated with the insurance company's to contribute billions to a fund. in this scenario there would be no TCC to pay legal fees for or their own legal fees which theoretically could have added another 150 to 200 million into the fund. I have a hard time trying to host a "pity party" in my mind for BSA. I think the TCC's approach of leaving 2 years of cash to each LC is fair. this protects the "non abused currently-registered youth". This will also give BSA the opportunity to prove it has truly evolved and now puts scouters first before image.

$25 in 1967 is the same as $200 today. I could not readily find anything on award amounts during that time. I will say that that the award should be greater 50 years later since the actual damage to ones life can be more accurately measured. you would not be trying to guess what the abused future might look like. I might also add that the award that may have been received 50 years ago could have gone to therapy/counseling which could have mitigated the damage. For me personally when I read that the BSA knew that one of my abusers had possibly 12 or 13 victims in my troop my first flash of anger was if they knew why didn't they try to help. That was 12 to 13 boys out of what 30 to 35 that were scarred for life.

If they have been able to get insurance presently they will be able to in the future. I would think that the deductible would be extremely high.

Just curious what you mean by this....adjusted up or down?

As mentioned the TCC said that the table of what a claim was worth was for negotiation purposes. If you read into that then the 103 Billion would be the same. I am not the one to say that it is the bankruptcy judges decision to reduce amounts (can someone else comment on this) I will say there is a large gap between 2.7-7.1 and 103 billion. I do believe that the judge could rule on some motions to get the figure above what has now been proposed by the BSA.

Here is a link to what the TCC feels that an abuse is worth for negotiating purposes. Boy Scouts of America: Pachulski Stang Ziehl & Jones (pszjlaw.com) Couple that with the table Unique and Timely Abuse Claim Count by Local Council & Allegation Rows 1-264 (in white) list Abuse Claims against individual Local Councils. Rows 265-1,267 (in blue) list Abuse Claims against more than one Local Council Contained in: https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/213bd53f-b44f-45c9-97fc-246bcb7ca06b_4108.pdf And now we can see how the TCC came to value the abuse claims at 103 Billion

I would think that the BSA has another more robust plan for survivors (remember the motto "be prepared"). The "Death Trap B Plan" leaves all of the LC's and CO's on the sinking ship and the BSA National on the only lifeboats. Would they wave and say good luck? How much bitterness would that generate? BSA National needs the LC's or there is no BSA. Yes they can grant new charters but the publicity on the local and national level for the next 4 to 5 years will deter more parents from allowing their children become part of the organization. With out new blood BSA cannot survive and I am sure that they know this. If there is a Global Settlement then BSA can wave the flag and the spin will be look at what good we have done for our former members.

So I looked up my LC it has over 17M in net assets as of now I am the only claimant. I am in California as is the LC. I would think they would have to pony up a big chunk now or a larger chunk later. thoughts?

In my opinion ending the exclusivity would fast track the process. With more than likely two new proposals that could land on her bench in a couple of weeks and the BSA knowing that the TCC's plan will be very detailed and generous to the survivors they would have to produce something similar and then having a negotiated compromise between the two might work. Might scare the insurance companies and make them step up also.

Do you believe the BSA lawyers are losing credibility with the judge and if they are would that matter?

Or are dead, now so mentally ill they can no longer function as human beings, have a fear of acknowledging what happened, or afraid of what family and friends might think of them etc. etc. etc. but I very much doubt many would be in the two reasons you mention here. I say this as someone who has lived and carried this nightmare for over 50 years and this is not an attack on you or BSA or the YPT.

My bad I was trying to quote Qwazse.

I think one must be very careful about using the 85k number of claimants as a benchmark as to the number of victims. I looked at how many claims the LC that I belonged to had claims against it. I was shocked to find that I was the only one since when I looked at the perversion files and the BSA docs contained therein it says my perpetrator was suspected of abusing 12 to 13 boys. And that was in my troop. Could the real figure of victims be more in the 850,000 to 1 million range? Maybe not that high but it does suggest that it just might be way north of 85,000.

I am sure that 20, 30 ,40 possibly 50 years ago there was some sort of tracking of abuse and that tracking showed low numbers. The UK has a centralized health system "the NHS" for many decades and there has been abuse. Society will only know realities when victims come forward and I can attest to the fact that abuse survivors are slow to disclose i.e. USA Gymnastics, Catholic Church and the list could go on and on. You cannot track in real time and that is the fallacy of tracking abuse and trying to say what what a good job we are doing now. https://www.boltburdonkemp.co.uk/.../scouts-abuse-map

This is a strange conversation. The reason that BSA is in Bankruptcy is the abuse not because they had not payed their normal course of business obligations. I can say from my experience and I would tend to believe still occurs young boys/men are ashamed and confused after abuse and will not reveal to others in the aftermath of abuse. This would make any study moot. No one will know until 10 to 20 years from now if the YPT policies that have been successful. Some of the policy may work some may not. Just the fact that the Boy Scouts consists of young boys will always make it a magnet for pedophiles who desire them.

Because the BSA is non profit they have the control whether they go into Chapter 7. They cannot be forced. Welcome to the forum.

I think this would be a great idea. I have been searching for a forum were I could converse and talk about what I am feeling with other survivors. Most of us don't really no anyone else in our situation.

Being new I have not shared my story but one day I most likely will. I thank you for thanking others and I also would like to thank @ThenNow. Because of this thread I read almost all of 27 pages of of @ThenNowpostings. His grasp of the law, his understanding of survivor emotions, and most of all his personal story has touched me. I have been struggling for a long time with my mental health but with the way he has no qualms about mentioning his own journey and mental health struggles put me over the edge and I reached out today to my health care providor to get me help. I am 67 years old and my abuse happened when I was 13. I kept the abuse to myself for 42.5 years of the 44 that I have lived with these memories. For those first 42.5 years I thought what happened to me was unique. Only upon reading a Facebook ad did I realize I was not the only one. The first person i talked to was the law firms intake person who was not encouraging but sent me a link to the perversion files. From there I saw the locale where the abuse happened and then the flashbacks started. I contacted a different law firm after doing a bit of research and then the process started. I gave my statement directly to my lawyer who set me up with a psychiatrist who gave his medical opinion that I was abused. And I said I wasn't ready to tell my story....sometimes I get just get carried away. Here we are now and my anxiety has started to go off the roof with anticipation of what is still to happen. I also would like to say that I wish I would have found this forum a year and a half ago.

So far there are no bench decisions on assets and the TCC is still questioning the validity of what the BSA says is restricted. Money/assets are exactly as you stated " potential pool of local council assets and insurance policies and good luck fishing'". If the plan is turned down by the judge she will then rule on the exclusivity. If exclusivity is denied to the boy scouts then we will see most likely two competing plans. I believe that the TCC most likely has one waiting in the wings. This is also the week the TCC is supposed to give the BSA a plan to give to each individual local council on their assets and what they need to (in the TCC's opinion) to contribute. According to the TCC it will leave each council with two years of operating cash so they will be able to survive. It will also include what each individual LC's potential exposure is.

Within the filing: https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/213bd53f-b44f-45c9-97fc-246bcb7ca06b_4108.pdf there are 134 pages of local council insurance policies. With that many from numerous insurers I surmise their is major exposure. Quite possibly why the insurers want to extend the exclusivity period for BSA.

It is OK to be snarky and I don't feel attacked. I feel like the Boy Scouts will not want any survivor to come around if and when there is some kind of conclusion for them to what has occurred. When they went thru the risk analysis and consulted with their lawyers and most likely the insurance carriers before entering bankruptcy I don't believe they foresaw the firestorm that has been been started. I think they may have predicted 5 to 10 thousand abuse survivors (and they also reached out themselves saying they wanted survivors to be taken care of with therapy etc.) which they could throw the 125 million or so and probably had already been in discussion with Hartford for possibly another 250 million and that would be roughly 50k or so to each claimant and that would be worst possible scenario. Instead they opened up Pandora's Box, the Genie got of the bottle and now the lid won't close and the Genie is going nowhere. Now they are kind of stuck with a legal strategy they had developed early on and it doesn't fit the new reality. I am confident that in the onset they had reassured the LC's that they would not be affected or at least minimally affected. Now there it is the threat of the "toggle plan" which by the Boy Scouts own admission will not be good for some LC's as there will be LC's that go bankrupt. in short it is kind of like getting a divorce you tell the spouse don't worry I will take care of you and by the time the courts get done you barely have a pot to piss in and you hate her with all your heart.

I do not believe that could ever come to fruition. Could you imagine the stories that would be told around the campfires. I am sure the Boy Scouts would not welcome any of those conversations on their properties.

I need a little help in understanding why the BSA is throwing a hail Mary. It seems to be quite clear that the proposed settlement if it goes to a vote will not pass. If the toggle plan is put into place and passes the LC's and the insurers will be left blowing in the wind per se. The line of lawyers at state courts will be very long filing suits against LC's (lets say 30% of claimants or approximately 25,000 individual claims). The cost of litigation would be in itself would be astronomical (lets say 250K per case times 25,000 = $625,000,000). The amount paid out to those who get judgements in their favor (lets say 25% of filed cases at $10,000,000 per = $6.25 Billion) and yes the insurers would have to pick up a lot of the payouts and i might be low or high in my estimations. The cases that go to jury trial would generate much unneeded publicity which BSA does not need at this point of time. How will the LC's feel about being put into such a vulnerable situation? Feedback would be appreciated.

I am a survivor with a lawyer. If I nor any other survivor in this bankruptcy had no lawyer we would have no restitution. The TCC lawyers have a plan for the continuation of BSA that gives fair compensation to survivors. The people who are fighting this are lawyers for the BSA and for the insurance companies.