johnsch322

Not offended. I think the hypocrisy is hilarious.

So I should send @Ojomana private message yet you choose to use this forum to try to correct me……hmmmmm

I understand exactly where you are coming from, and I am glad that it works for you. As a child living in England when my father was in the Air Force, he had a black coworker/friend come knocking on our door. My 5-year-old cousin answered the door and shouted out to my father "there is a golliwog here to see you Uncle John". Luckily my father's friend took no offense but my cousin Tommy was told that what he said was offensive so he would not to repeat what he had said.

If you are blind to what is offensive, you will continue to offend. I have a few years behind me and have watched society change over the course of my seven decades. What was said or attitudes towards people have changed because those who were offended spoke out. It started small and grew. I point out attitudes to those who offend CSA survivors hoping to expand their knowledge and hopefully change their perceptions.

You have and you continue. If you do not have the will to research and continue to make erroneous statements than you are disrespecting all survivors. Yes, more of the claims are for incidents more than 30 years old. It has been established that men are likely to acknowledge sexual abuse that happened to them in their mid 30's. Because of that there is most likely a major number of cases in the past 23 years that occurred, but no claim has been made. A tremendous of knowledge is available on how to prevent abuse and how to treat survivors is available. Unfortunately, not of all of the prevention methods are being used (BSA says its cost prohibitive and clumsy to implement. Just read some of the posts on these forums to confirm). I differ with you on this point. I think it was more intended to keep the BSA's own reputation safe. Why else would they have been secret files that BSA wouldn't share with other organizations and even deny the existence of? In front of a Congressional committee a BSA official said they had no CSA issues. The question is and always be who they got reported to and what role did the BSA have in under reporting issues. I have pointed this out to you previously, but you don't seem to understand the bankruptcy is not a lawsuit. It was a business move by the BSA to prevent lawsuits that had been filed already and prevent lawsuits from being filed in the future. BSA knew that they would not survive going to State Courts and facing survivors in that forum. Your posts show that you may not have zero, but your irresponsible comments show close to zero.

Kind of ironic that BSA had a list of known perpetrators, but they would not voluntarily release the list to survivors. Yet one of the former BSA employees is now espousing that victims/survivors should go after the actual perpetrators. Imagine if 40 years ago I had wanted the name of my perpetrators (one of them is in the files) and asked about any knowledge they may have had about incidents in the time period I was abused. They would have roadblocked me and any lawyer I had at the time. I could of filed suit asking for the knowledge and they would have fought me all the way to the state supreme court...oh wait they actually happened in 2012 in real case. Thank you to all the lawyers that made that happen.

Allow me to point out a few facts to you: Majority of claims involved BSA employees and volunteers at the local level and the courts had already established that the LC's were directly connected to national. For most of the abused due to their young age they had no recollections of their abusers' names. BSA would not give the troop rosters or other info to help anyone recollect. BSA did know what was happening hence the perversion files. Because of threats and feelings of shame/guilt a vast majority of survivors told no one or very few people of what happened to them. Even if they had rape kits and DNA analysis where part of the future for most cases. The BSA using "pitbull" lawyers had already lost quite a few cases or had settled with victims before the cases went to court. BSA voluntarily went into bankruptcy as business decision because the organization knew it would not be able to survive because it had already lost so many state court cases. The bankruptcy procedures were not about guilt it was about how little the BSA, Local Councils, Charter Organizations, and insurers could get away with paying to claimants. As a last point I ask politely that you not use how little some claimants may receive as an argument for what a bad hand the BSA was dealt.

You are so misinformed.

All of what you say here is very disrespectful to survivors.

From my understanding the lawyer from the AVA firm says he knew that mistakes had been made before the plan was passed but never spoke up. I say let everything stand as is and have those claimants sue their respective lawyers for malpractice. Might make more from their insurance than they would have from a valid claim.

With all of the TCC and Coalition Town Halls explaining everything it seems like it would have been impossible to check that box not knowing the ramifications.

One attorney Tim Kosnoff. But one attorney is not a movement...it is just one opinion.

Yes, there was lawsuits prior to the bankruptcy, but the core point of the bankruptcy is the survival of the BSA. The bankruptcy took away ability to seek justice thru the courts in the form of lawsuits.

But then for many blaming the survivors of abuse wanting to be fairly compensated is an easy way out for their explanation of all that is wrong in the BSA.

Yes, but the first two wrongs means that the organization BSA put themselves in a position of having to pay for what happened. All of the property, Rockwell paintings, gas rights and insurance policies etc. etc. was acquired prior to entering bankruptcy. Very little of the settlement is coming from promissory notes. In fact, future or present BSA members hopefully will gain from what has come out of the settlement which is enhanced YPT. I believe the rise in fees is not because of the settlement but more because of loss of membership. Less members mean loss of revenue and increase of fees.

In my opinion the two wrongs were first the CSA itself and the second was the cover up by the BSA. The third has been the BSA electing to enter bankruptcy which took away most of the legal rights of the survivors.

When all else fails and you can't really write a good response use the down vote or the sad face.

If you find that the cost of belonging to an organization who has to pay for their past too expensive you can always quit.

If the first wrong was the CSA, what was the second?

I had to present my drivers license to get access into my daughters high school.

you are correct not everything may show and for that reason every possible avenue of investigation should be used.

You can fake ID and Social Security number but I have not heard of anyone faking fingerprints. If you are going to do a thorough background check I would think that fingerprinting and running them thru the FBI database would be mandatory.

Fingerprinting and running them thru databases would seem to be a must do. Can you imagine the next lawsuit (outside of the bankruptcy) when a lawyer says to a jury that the BSA says that they are doing everything possible to keep children safe yet they don’t do fingerprinting.

Just curious, did they run your fingerprints thru any data base or even ask for your fingerprints?

I ask people for their Drivers License and copy them every day as part of my job in the auto industry. It is required under red flag laws and i must even scrutinize them to make sure the DL is valid and that the person looks like the picture. This is for fraud protection to make sure that the person is who they say they are when applying for credit and even if paying cash for a vehicle. If no ID is required to be a volunteer or scout leader, then I see where this could be major issue.