MYCVAStory

GOOD GOD....I got some time at work and said "Well, let's see what the forum is up to and....BAM. My takeaway: Gilwell, as you've discovered, this forum tries its hardest to deal in facts. As the Hollywood Producer Robert Evans said "There are three truths, yours, mine and THE truth, and all three are correct." I don't know what you heard or were told but the reality is that the BSA DID NOT EVER direct claimants to AIS or any other law firm. Period. Did AIS reach out to your scouts like it has others because you can buy lists of former scouts from data analytics companies and say they were working with the BSA? Who knows. If THAT is a fact please produce the recording so it can be entered into the court record or be used as a defense in your slander/libel lawsuit when you're served! I say that half-jokingly. This is serious business. What I do know is that many claimants reached out to multiple firms that advertised and often got confused with who told them what. The number of duplicated claims was a result of that and have been weeded out. Now, did an unknowing SE or DE make a Powerpoint with incorrect information? Maybe. Were they directed to do so by National? There is NO evidence of that and it would be unprecedented and run against ALL of BSA National's actions to this point. PLEASE tread lightly. Whether we have your passion for the BSA or not we try to trade in facts here. On behalf of all victims, let me use an analogy. Remember, long ago we were invited into a house and were hurt in it because the owners didn't look out for our safety. That house has been falling down for decades in how it protected those it invited in. Now, victims have been asked to enter that house once again and via bankruptcy work to prop it back up so it can stand today and in the future. Some of us don't care if it remains standing. some hope it falls down the first second we get the hell out again, and some want to burn it down now to get it out of the way. If you want to help repair it and make it stand for a long time then please remember that you'll need to start those repairs by accepting the FACTS that we know and can discover and the feelings of victims who expect only respectful factual treatment in return. Please, if you haven't looked at the TCC's summary of the claims I encourage you to do so: http://www.pszjlaw.com/assets/htmldocuments/BSA Summary of Sexual Abuse Claims.pdf That might help you better understand the scope of this historic bankruptcy and the constituency that the TCC is representing. It might also help you understand the challenge before you in your work with the BSA. If it is to survive then it's going to take a lot of work by people like you who are passionate about it but ONLY if the secrecy and ineffectiveness in confronting issues of the past changes. Regardless of my personal feelings regarding your success I wish you well if you will take the time to understand the depth of the problem of abuse. Oh, and the hearing Monday....if anyone wants to read the tea leaves on how the judge feels about the insurers, that'll be a good opportunity.

Yes. In part to make sure that claims are validated to make sure that there is no fraud or duplication involved. A settlement trust if created would do that as well as take on the fight with insurers via retained insurance litigation experts.

Exactly. This is the awful part of bankruptcy being the process for dealing with abuse/injury. Victims see headlines like "Judge allows BSA settlement to move forward...." and they start checking their mailbox for checks. The reality os that the bankruptcy process is DEBTOR (BSA) initiated for DEBTOR benefit. They settle with their claimants and move on down the road. Claimants are left with a settlement of some portion of what's owed them or their litigation (in this case with insurers) continues. Even if there were a global settlement with all insurers, and that is HIGHLY unlikely at this point unless victims were REALLY screwed over, it takes time to review every claim. My wife asked me if she thought I'd see any amount in 2022. My best response was "Maybe, but only a portion" This isn't unusual. The asbestos mass tort trusts have been going on for decades. Madoff, while not mass tort has been clawing back money since 2009 https://www.madofftrustee.com/ Pissed about that? The House Judiciary Committee might be interested in hearing your opinion: https://judiciary.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=4661

I was told by a wide old Sage Bankruptcy Professional at the start of this "In mass tort bankruptcies 90% of the claimants have TWO questions ONLY. How much will I get and when will I get it?" Insurers know this. They live for it. Their outside attorneys are paid by the hour more in a couple weeks than I'll make all year and that's still a bargain for the insurers compared to settling. The longer insurers can get claimants to wait the less they'll take to get it over with and the money that sits in the insurers accounts makes more than expenses. . The shorter they can get claimants to settle they know they'll do it for less money to get it quickly. It is ALL about Time Value of Money. The best strategy for claimants is also the hardest. A well-litigated strategy that takes time and is intended to leverage as much as possible from insurers. Alas, that doesn't come quickly. That's why the worst thing you can do with an insurer that owes you money is show your frustration and impatience and the best is smile and make it clear you won't be sold out quickly. That's also why there are quick payouts for those who don't want to wait. Unfortunately the insurers live for dragging things out and their attorneys are only happy to do so. You can't have it both ways.

Yeah, that candid conversation is important but sometimes you have to watch what you say. Let's all remember this tidbit that was entered into the court record from Mr. Kosnoff, defender of victims when he mistakenly hit "reply all" to the wrong group. Best interest of ALL victims or one group? Yes but no more. We need to control our power. Not just to the committee but to everyone - mediators, BSA, councils etc. JH told you Stang told Pasich to shut down until Nov. You realize don’t you that WE did that. Anne and Jon aren’t handing over any of their data to anyone unless and until this gets sorted out. Andolina and the 3 Amigos need to get that message. They are wasting their time talking to the TCC. Here is the message: We control 80% of the claims I.e our coalition controls the case. We are not going to do anything to help grease the gears for Stang and the dimwits including speeding up the insurance analysis. Ken, that’s playing in to the Andolina Stang program. Message is: we’re not playing. I’ve got a new strategy. I’m calling it the Seinfeld Shift. You’ll like it. It means we relax, keep focused on our marketing and media efforts going full tilt in to Nov, chill and enjoy our summer and evaluate in the fall. We have the luxury of doing nothing. Either that or go sell 15-30M of our case to a motherfunder to let it and AG digitally rape us for nine months. The network execs to Jerry and George Costanza about the sitcom idea Jerry and George are pitching: Q: “Yes, but what is the sitcom about?” Jerry and George confidently smiling ear to ear: “It’s about nothing, nothing at all.” I think you guys already know but don’t want to tell me that the JH gambit was a failure. Regardless I can already see it. Nothing happens until AIS says so. We smile, nod our heads and do nothing, nothing at all. Me? I’m going sailing.

C/O an advocate involved here are the "principle" attorneys representing TCC members and advocating for ALL victims, and not just the clients of any coalition. The bios give an idea of their experience on the victim experience side. I'm not a lawyer, I'm not shilling for any, and other than my college roommate who became an attorney and owes me beer money none have ever paid or owe me a dime to post this 🙂 https://www.paulmones.com/paul-mones/ https://mersonlaw.com/founder-jordan-merson/ https://www.hurley-law.com/attorneys/christopher-t-hurley/ https://www.crewjanci.com/our-team/ (Crew and Janci) https://www.hurley-law.com/attorneys/evan-m-smola/ https://www.andersonadvocates.com/overview/attorney-profiles/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/lujanandwolff (Delia Lujan)

Scary thought for the night....no judge has ever "crammed down" a sexual abuse bankruptcy settlement against the vote of claimants. That's good. Expect a 66% approval vote from VOTING claimants (not total number) for approval. Claimants aren't required to sign their ballots if their retention agreement with their attorney and claim form signify that their attorney can do so for them. So yes, that places a lot of power into the hands of mass tort attorneys who can be expected to vote for a LOT of clients. Think their clients will do so instead? Consider that when the Coalition asked its supposed 70,000+ clients to sign an agreement saying that their attorney would represent them as part of the Coalition only 18,000 returned that mailing affirmatively. You can be sure that the remaining 50,000 votes will be cast when a plan is up for approval. What's this mean? Well, if the RSA blows up, and keeping the Hartford $hit deal as a part of a settlement would do that, then you might see two victims sides emerge. Those attorneys with bills to pay (since the judge said not yet), and those representing the TCC and Zalkin group who have a long history of serving victims in STATE courts as well where they have filed cases. If you're reading this and wondering if your attorney filed your State case (if your SOL allows it) ASK NOW. MANY MANY cases in NY were never filed before the NY deadline passed August 14 because the victim's attorney retainer is BSA bankruptcy only. Consider that nightmare if this blows up and someone who waited decades for the SOL to change is told "Sorry, we never agreed to represent you in State court." Consider the type of attorney who would do that. Consider who will be voting for any plan when the time comes. Sorry. This is a long way from over.

Just as a reminder, because it is part of the bankruptcy "deal" all Council contributions will be a part of the disclosure. That said, that information like all others is open to objection. The TCC has maintained strongly that claimants have the right to know before they vote.

Here's an interesting tidbit about sexual-abuse related bankruptcy. POST bankruptcy, insurance is very very...wait for it....EASY to get. Yep, that seems illogical but the reality is that there are companies that love that scenario because there are far fewer "unknowns" as in claimants waiting to come forward when SOLs change. That said, if the abuse starts again (insert your opinion here) then the companies will adjust premiums accordingly.

I hope it's 12/1 but....I spoke to someone involved and was told late today, "Some time in Q1 of 2022, maybe even later in it" is a lot more realistic. The hand-to-hand combat and delays are still to come. This sucks for every victim but is a reminder to settle in and focus on the fact that we're closer to the end than the beginning of the bankruptcy. Then, a trust, and insurer fights for those insurers that don't settle pre-bankruptcy....that's possibly years. Sorry. Not news anyone wants to hear and I hope I'm way wrong but given the history of it and holiday slowdowns I don't think so. Sometimes though it's better to know reality and be able to face it than it is to get your hopes up unrealistically and be crushed. Sorry. If it;s Q1 then it will have taken two years. That's a lot longer than the six months from now. A dose of hopefully positive perspective to end this comment.

The TCC explained that it was the BSA that agreed to the use of the data as long as the dashboards weren't shared with any other entities. The TCC though specifically invited the LC's to share their dashboard if they wanted. The BSA's NDA prevented that. Remember, at the meeting outside of mediation where the TCC explained the methodology it was the BSA as the Zoom host that pulled the plug before any LC was allowed to ask a question.

That's a shame. If you have a lawyer, did he/she spell this out? I'm always wondering how in-depth some attorneys discussed the process versus churning POCs.

Yes, and what time will also hold are recurring MONTHLY fees that will NOT be paid for the time being by anyone other than the attorneys that formed and stay a part of the coalition. Every victim should be hopeful that those increasing balances don't impact the coalition's supporting what's BEST for VICTIMS and there's no rush to settle for less money sooner so bills can be paid.

By virtue of the current RSA those three cannot until October 18 deadline is reached OR the debtor (BSA) ends the RSA voluntarily by submitting a new plan thereby invalidating the existing RSA.

And a shout out around then to "then now" as well!

It is 99% about this.

Sorry for your loss. I appreciate you sharing the story. A good discussion of "keeping secrets": https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-compassion-chronicles/201903/why-adult-victims-childhood-sexual-abuse-dont-disclose

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00038-012-0426-1 Methods We included studies published between 2002 and 2009 that reported CSA in children below 18 years. We performed a random effects meta-analysis and analyzed moderator variables by meta-regression. Results Fifty-five studies from 24 countries were included. According to four predefined types of sexual abuse, prevalence estimates ranged from 8 to 31 % for girls and 3 to 17 % for boys. Nine girls and 3 boys out of 100 are victims of forced intercourse. Heterogeneity between primary studies was high in all analyses. And from https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J070v12n01_05 Few empirical studies have been conducted in this area but research suggests that few victims tell anyone about child sexual abuse as children I really don't want to debate further the actual number or percentage of participant abuse while in the BSA. If it wasn't a problem, and wasn't continuing to occur, we wouldn't be where we are today. Period.

I do not use this forum normally for one-on-one debate. That said, it appeared to me that your assumption was that there were fewer than 82,000 cases of abuse. If I was wrong and you believe there were more, my apologies. If your assumption is that we will never know the true number then we both agree. My point was that when 16% is generally accepted as being the prevalence, and this as been cited consistently, then before anyone assumes the amount in abuse is less in scouting they should do the math.

Multi-tasking while the hearing proceeds..... Your comments will certainly create head-shaking. I'd like you to consider one accepted principle of abuse, especially among men. That is the fact that it takes years and decades for people, again, especially men, to come forward as victims of sexual abuse. While the validation process will determine the number of unduplicated valid claims I'd like you to consider that there will also be many many victims who have not come forward, or never will, or may later in life. PLEASE do your research into the prevalence and behavior of sexual abuse victims, especially males. Here's a place to start: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15894146/ "Contact CSA was reported by 16% of males" Again, PLEASE spend some time educating yourself regarding this topic and ask questions. The shared experience in this forum, while not always in agreement, really helps understanding this topic not only quantitatively but also qualitatively. You, like many, might find your assumptions changed.

I really don't care what his motivation is. Just remember, while LC assets might appear attractive to some the prospect of hundreds of LC bankruptcy proceedings, those expenses and decreased available compensation for victims, shouldn't be.

Of course. Wouldn't it be interesting if we lived in a world where an amount was accepted, escrowed, and if there are invalid claims the money were "returned" to the insurers. But, that would leave less for valid claims. The fight to provide settlement money to the people who in part paid the policy premiums is going to get uglier and take more time than any victim wants to spend. But, victims will get ONE shot at the largest settlement trust possible if they can stay patient when it's hardest. Insurers know that time is on their side and they do everything possible to exploit it.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, that has to be balanced against the amount of time it will take to validate claims. No one wants to wait YEARS for that to happen before a vote can be take. That's the problem with addressing mass sexual tort via bankruptcy and why the best TDP and settlement amount must be fought for now.

Yes. This reminds me of two items. One, the TCC has said that it is an advocate of a robust system of claim validation and that one dollar going to an invalid claim is one dollar denied to a valid one. As the saying goes, to those who are given much, much is expected. We can all argue what a "robust" validation process will look like but that's where a Trust and validation professionals they hire (yes, there are firms that specialize in this as it relates to abuse) come in. If you expect the maximum payment though it really is reasonable to expect that claimants will do more than take a little time to fill out a single form. Will this require interviews and take time? Probably, but given the number of claims that die was cast. I'm sure this forum and others will do a great service to share experiences as a process is known. Second, this comment also gets at the protests of the insurers; that there are scores of bogus claims. To that I say a resounding "SO WHAT?" If there are bogus claims, they are discovered, or those committing fraud take an early low payout it does one thing, leaves more money for deserving victims. It's exactly why the TCC and Coalition are fighting for the maximum amount from the insurers. Only by doing so, and having a robust validation system, will funds remain that aren't more insulting to victims than would be otherwise. Did people see some late-night infomercial, say "I was in the scouts. I could use some money" and call an 800 number? Beats me. What I do know is that I was abused and beyond proof of that impact and reports from my counselors I'm happy to sit down and tell my story. I've spoken to other victims and I've spoken to someone who has had to interview them. His opinion was the same as mine. When it comes to child sexual abuse it doesn't take long to know when someone is telling the truth. I really do hope that most victims will embrace and encourage a robust validation process instead of being scared by it. If you were a victim it will help you and all true victims. Oh, and occupy a few months of our time on this forum too! 🙂

So people should only report when it's obvious, and keep their mouths shut when they aren't sure? That opinion would make abusers everywhere smile. It's why we need systems where every concern is raised and if 99 are looked into, and cleared, but the one that is "real" is found then the system works. I was abused and went on to be an adult volunteer when my children were in scouting. I was hyper-vigilant never to be in a situation where my behavior could be questioned and I demanded the same of those around me including raising ANY concerns within the troop so they could be addressed immediately. The issue of what "did or didn't happen" is too important to ever ignore.