1980Scouter

Do not forget the DOJ objection. This is the real issue to watch. If it is allowed, game over. Start over.

Are we sure LC got off not contributing one additional cent? That would seem weird as TCC was adamant that they can pay more into the fund.

There are so many other activities for kids today. Let's take youth hockey as an example. Until the 1980's there were no arenas in my area. Now there are multiple and it is popular. Same for sking and ski club. We have to realize there are many other activities for kids available and scouting does not look as exciting as it once did. You add increased fees and loss of local camps and it makes things even worse. I think the death blow to scouting will be financial and not from bankruptcy but from decreased numbers and increased costs.

Is there a chance the new agreement with the TCC could be BSA only? It would seem to simplify things and a least get national through this. Then reset and let LC and CO go through their issues. Many LC would not survive the lawsuits but the stronger ones with fewer claims and better state laws could.

So doing some research. My LC SE makes more in salary than the governor of my state. Quite a bit more. How is this just and fair to all who donate money to the council thinking it will serve scouts needs?

The lawyers win too the longer the case goes on.

I think for BSA to survive, they need to get an agreement with the TCC. This likely will require a large increase in contributions by LC's. If this happens I could see a path forward. If they do not get an agreement this will become a court fight until Chapter 7 comes knocking. And then LC's are in the same boat a few years later. There have to be program changes as others have suggested to make scouting safer and more up to date. Otherwise abuse lawsuits will occur, but at a smaller rate in the future. This will be the death of BSA.

I would like to take a poll of the posters here. Will the BSA survive bankruptcy and all the other factors at play (ie covid,funding issues,etc. )? What do you think will happen and how long will BSA last? Or will they get through this and thrive in the future?

If you got two, you could put them together and have a double wide council office!!!! For $2000 what a deal!!!!!

Miami Valley Council (ohio) announced the sale of Woodland Trails Scout Reservation in Nov 2021. It is an 1,000 acre camp that was their summer camp. They sold off another 1,000 acres from WT about 20 years ago to the state. Now they have to rely on neighboring councils for summer camp. This is a small council that I see a merger in their future.

I have said locate scout offices at camps for years. Better camp use, save money and most things can be done electronically or remotely. Really this could save Scouting so much money that LC's could survive.

Has anyone heard of their LC SE taking a pay cut due to council finances being the bad shape? Many councils are struggling currently due to all the factors discussed on these boards. It would make sense since the SE is paid so much.

I wonder if they would not ask LC's to contribute funds to keep BSA operating. If National goes away, LC's are in a difficult situation. If they need another year to get through this, have LC's kick in just enough to keep them going. LC's (most) have the money.

I really think a BSA only bankruptcy with LC's given the option of being included at a much higher contribution or to opt out and take their chances has the best chance of passing LC's vote. That way the LC controls their own destiny.

That is progress. Now the ball is fully in the judges court. Time to make decisions and get this case moving forward.

Here lies the problem. Summer camp is supposed to be the highlight of a scouts year and if the camp facilities are broken down not so much. Many of the items you mentioned being broken are not high dollar items and there is no reason for disrepair. It is about the details. Why does someone not go through all equipment over the winter and order supplies/parts? I agree 100% that good program will make scouting strong and get donations. One last thing, my LC does a camp donation drive for small project funding. They raise about $ 50k for each camp yearly. They put on the web site that you also agree to support FOS in addition to camp needs. It is in bold face print. How much FOS goes to camp vs professional salaries? They truly care more about staff salaries.

So true. Think about how cheaply scouting could run if a council only had a few staff and a camp. No large staffs dedicated solely to fundraising(to pay large staff salaries) I truly believe in the elimination of the council office. Limited staff can work out of the camp or remotely. Much less overhead and cheaper to operate. Money could be spent to maintain the camp in good condition.

Are there still a lot of units in limbo on charters?

For wealth, I will use my LC. They are contributing 6 million currently. They have 20 million in assets. Some are restricted. But at least 13 million is not. So they could give a lot more. It would likely require selling a camp but they have two nice ones. If they lose the council office and a camp in addition to most of their endowment they still exist and have a camp and can continue on with liability released. By the way they have over 400 claims against them. This is what it will take in my opinion to get the plan passed. They survive in the end but with less assets.

Wow and I thought my medium sized council was excessive at 250k for scout exec. and about 40 FT staff (30 FT now). I agree councils are hiding the true enrollment number currently. Many websites say data from 3-4 years ago before a 50-60% membership drop.

I never paid much attention to council finances and salaries until the bankruptcy and my LC sold a camp I cared for. I could not believe what the SE salary and benefits cost my council. And for a medium sized council to have 40 FTE's and to spend over 3 million on wages seemed crazy to me. Maybe bankruptcy will result in streamlined LC costs and more focus on program. I know many councils survived off of investment earnings of large endowments. If they go away in bankruptcy they will have to really decide what is necessary staff wise. If LC's would lose their office buildings in bankruptcy I think that could work out better than losing as many camps. With technology today most can work remotely with little issues. Make a building at camp into an office/store and you get better camp use too. I don't think it matters much if camps with the new offices are outside of the center of the council either. Many things can be done electronically or via Fed Ex. Have someone in the office on weekends at camp too.

My thoughts exactly. The SE's and other high up national execs have to realize the ship is likely sinking now. Especially after this next hearing if it goes as thought. They are paid very well for their job.(at the expense of camp maintenance and other needs but that is another whole thread) Why not get everything you can out of BSA and then find another less paying job when BSA dies? Most execs have decades of service to BSA and have moved around over time to get where they are now. The old guard will ride off into the sunset....

This is a very good fair way to do things on the LC level. Each council decides and pays for their liability. Better chance of passing local boards if the payouts stay within the council.

The BSA is going to have to be firm with local councils on any increased contribution. Many will likely fight it to the end. Getting them all on board not an easy task at all. If you look at if the SOL current cases are brought against LC, most will pay out a lot more. So it seems like no brainer to me. You survive with less assets and maybe only one camp, but you get to continue on.

So I think at this point the BSA needs to ask one simple question. What will it take to get a plan passed and survive as an organization? Ask the TCC, DOJ, churches and all other hold outs. It will take an open checkbook for more money from LC and insurance companies for sure. Or do we continue to fight in court until we run out of money.