1980Scouter

10 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

Bankruptcy is not technically over. Still has to go thru the appeals process completely and depending on the Purdue ruling might be back to square one. At that point all of the state courts where the cases that have been filed will start moving forward and I ultimately believe if that happens BSA will cease to exist.

PS Not sure which side has been beating the deans horse. You obviously choose to ignore any facts placed before you. 

I agree 100%. Bankruptcy is not over and could go either way. Anyone saying the plan is complete or it will fail does not know what will really happen. 

It looks more like it will pass at this point but still a few variables that could come into play. 

I fault the BSA for telling members and media that the Bankruptcy is complete when it is not. 

16 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

Well, I was a District Training Chair in the 90s and taught that YP course with the VHS tapes.  We were directed to tell people to NEVER report suspected abuse to the authorities.  ONLY report directly to the SE, who "knew what to do and how to report it."...and NEVER discuss it with anyone else...when you call the Council Office, tell whomever answered the phone to "put me through to the SE for a YP matter" and he would respond immediately.  That never sat right with me, being the spouse of a school nurse who was a "mandatory reporter" and knew the process.  

This is exactly why the BSA got into the trouble they did and had to file bankruptcy.  If they were transparent and addressed the issues openly as they occurred we would have known of issues and been much more on the lookout.

I remember 1988 being the first year in my LC that you had to have two leaders at summer camp. In 1987 it was only the scoutmaster and 30 scouts at summer camp. But 1988 you needed two which we did not have so a camp staffer had to camp with our troop every night.

There is a Supreme Court hearing today on Perdue and third party releases. The Justice Department is challenging this. 

Will the outcome effect the BSA case if third party releases are thrown out?

Scouting is on it's way out. Not anytime soon but the trends point to the end. National will die before most  LC's due to huge debt and little cash on hand. 

There will be many council mergers and more camps sold in the next few years. 

The best way to continue scouting is to eliminate National and have LC's vote on standards and rules. No National needed. Sell Summit and National offices.

Now will recharter go this year? With bankruptcy on the back burner now playing the waiting game and fees/costs increasing will it be an increase in numbers?

My thought is that there will be a decrease in numbers as has been the trend other than last year. 

One LC by me is even charging a late fee if the charter is late or incomplete.

I just read an article that said Jamboree only had 15,000 attending and lowest attendance ever. If this true? I know National told LC'S to push Jamboree hard.

In the future I see a lot of local council mergers. There are many, mostly smaller councils struggling financially.  

National should set a minimum of 5,000 scouts for a local council. With technology there is no need for as many scout offices. 

Put scout offices and shops on camp properties and sell the council offices. Reduced overhead.

There should be a nationwide background check standard that would apply to all youth organizations.  One check could cover all youth organizations.  

All youth organizations are looking for the same thing, to weed out poor candidates that may harm children. 

On 5/9/2023 at 8:02 PM, RememberSchiff said:

Update May 9, 2023:

The Logan County Commission purchased the 804-acre Camp Chief Logan boy scout camp at Garrett Fork for $915,000 using money from the Coal Reallocation Fund, which is earmarked for economic development purposes.

While there are no immediate plans, Logan County Commission President Diana Barnette said the commission hopes to utilize the massive tract of land for a variety of purposes including boy scouts, girl scouts, 4-H camps, WECAN camps, church camps and trainings for county and local city law enforcement officers.

More at source link:

https://www.loganbanner.com/news/county-commission-purchases-boy-scout-camp-property-at-garrett-fork/article_d46d47ff-1a34-55c4-a293-ed2656385847.html

These are two different Chief Logan camps. The Ohio one is close to being sold though. 

My LC SE salary and benefits are $290,000 for a council with 6,000 scouts. This equals almost $50 per scout to fund the SE. 

This seems very excessive to me in that the council has lost 2/3 of youth members over the last 5 years. What are other councils paying per scout? 

The SE gravy train has got to end. It is killing, especially smaller councils. My LC medium sized SE salary and benefits is well over 300k a year. 

How many LC are going to have to merge after making their contributions? Many rely on interest from investments to fund a large portion of operations. 

Take away most of the investment earnings and they are in trouble. 

2 minutes ago, 1980Scouter said:

Would these not be the highest numbers or close to it for the year? 

It takes into account new scouts over the summer and fall. After rechartering the more accurate numbers will be available hopefully. 

I would like to see the average for an entire 12 months. That would take out any highs or lows and give a more accurate number.

3 hours ago, malraux said:

FWIW, membership numbers are now accessible to district committee and commissioners.

Would these not be the highest numbers or close to it for the year? 

It takes into account new scouts over the summer and fall. After rechartering the more accurate numbers will be available hopefully. 

I see many LC mergers in the next few years due to low enrollment and financial pressures. 

Maybe at this time the whole over compensation of SE's can be addressed. Not holding my breath though.

7 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

You can find the 990 form for your council.  For my council latest one I could locate was 2019

Revenue - $14.3 M.  These top 6 staff (less than 10% of the total staff) account for $1.594MM in costs or 11% of the budget.  SE pay is not in fact a misprint

• SE / CEO
  • Reportable compensation - $459K
  • Other compensation - $159K
  • Total - $618K
• Deputy SE
  • Reportable compensation - $189K
  • Other compensation - $70K
  • Total - $259K
• Director of Development
  • Reportable compensation - $155K
  • Other compensation - $38K
  • Total - $193K
• Director of Field Service
  • Reportable compensation - $151K
  • Other compensation - $33K
  • Total - $184K
• Director of Field Service (another one)
  • Reportable compensation - $146K
  • Other compensation - $30K
  • Total - $176K
• Director of Accounting
  • Reportable compensation - $101K
  • Other compensation - $63K
  • Total - $164K

Wow. That is crazy salaries for a non-profit.  I agree that maybe 75k might be low in some markets. I was thinking of my area.

What is a fair SE salary? Many councils in my area pay 200k +/- plus benefits.  This is excessive when Scouting is in decline and councils are strapped for cash. 

I propose 75k and good benefits.  If you care about Scouting you will continue in your position. 

1 hour ago, Cburkhardt said:

I am with SouixRanger on this.  1,000-Scout councils just can’t work anymore.  This council needs to be a large district within a well-run council.    Maybe a DE and an assistant.

I think 5,000 youth should be the min number for a council. They always say you need 1,000+ scouts to make a financially successful summer camp go. 

With technology there is no reason why 2-4 councils per state would not be reasonable. DE's could work from home near the area they serve. 

30 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

My district is short it's goal by about 50% or just over 160 Cub Scouts.  That is as of October.  They will probably close the gap a bit, but will end short of plan.

I am concerned about Troops. Several are down to 1 patrol in my area.  One Troop in my town who always had 50-60 scouts even as of 2018/2019 are down to 9.  I talked to that Scoutmaster who said a former SM took over who was really strict and a rules guy to the point most of the scouts just quit.

My pack recruited well and our Troop is fairly healthy.  However, I am seeing some dark clouds on the horizon.  BSA will need major changes to survive.

My LC put out an update video last week saying year over year the number of scouts is up. 

No numbers were given. Does this mean they have 100 more scouts? They went from 15,000 to 6,000 over 5 years.

They always make everything upbeat and positive which is good but sometimes you have to be honest and let the facts be known. 

I suspect if you dig deeper they are in trouble with losing members and charter partners. 

9 hours ago, PACAN said:

JMHO..but LC sponsoring ALL units probably ends the program.  Sponsors will withdraw all their support from the BSA causing greater financial shortfalls and increased lack of community support.     LC sponsoring ANY units is the way to go as LC neither have the time nor manpower to properly sponsor so they will hire new people just for that purpose and have the units pay for these positions with increased council fees over and above national, expect increased FOS and fundraising support, require "their" units to only go to the council camp and programs.  Of course the LCs will have access to bank accounts and equipment they will divest. 

The LC that made the video had a link to the agreement form. It said it is mandatory to do FOS, popcorn, flowers and any other fundraiser at the council level. Camping is allowed at other council camps though. including for summer camp.

This same LC hinted that ALL units may be council chartered in the future. A leader asked about switching charters as they found a new CO and the SE said absolutely not, council chartered is the only option for UMC units.

My LC just did a zoom meeting and stated that ALL UMC units will be council chartered, NO EXCEPTIONS.  

They feel that this is the best way to move forward.  Lots of resistance on the zoom meeting. Do not think it will go well.

And so it begins.  The exact appeal many have said will be a sticking point. I wonder if US Trustee will file the same appeal?

Another bankruptcy related note, I have noticed all LC's in my area pushing the Jamboree very hard. Wonder if national sees it as a cash cow?

Past ones were not given this much attention.  

One last note LC hiring is in full swing. My LC has added 10 FT positions in the past few months, many new ones they have never had before.  They are at 40% membership from 5 years ago. How do they fund all this and still have a bankruptcy contribution?

The LC's in my state are very optimistic of the future. They are hiring employees like crazy in the past month of so.

Of the three councils I checked like 15 FTE's were added in the past month. Many were vacant positions but some are new ones. Seems like some may provide oversight to UMC units maybe. 

Either they know something or are going all in to try and increase membership. 

5 hours ago, yknot said:

Let me clarify. It had nothing to do with new future liability from existing cases. What (I thought) I understood was that BSA owes money to the settlement -- that some portion of what it has pledged or owes is going to come from future revenues based on its achieving its business plan and that that money will be funneled into the trust going forward. I was wondering if someone knew for certain. 

I saw that too in one version of the plans. Not sure if it is in the current one.