ThenNow

I don't recall seeing this posted here. If duplicative, my apologies. https://www.newsday.com/long-island/boy-scouts-sex-abuse-claims-nassau-suffolk-1.50192369

I wish there was more to be known. As I’m sure few of us do, I don’t function well in an information vacuum. I don’t see (understand) how the LCs or COs are going to come to the table, as will be needed to make this an acceptable Plan. For the COs especially, what compels those in closed states? Obviously LCs are moving to liquidate assets in anticipation of their contributions, so that’s hopeful. Perhaps there will be a better read on how many are taking action soon. (I realize not all of you view “hopeful” as the appropriate word choice here.)

Based on what I was told by CynicalScouter, I don’t see how they can come in with much of anything, outside of those few councils the represent. During the hearing, they sounded all nicey nice, talking about collaboration and broad cooperation. I know from personal experience that isn’t the case as to some LCs. Back to the herding cats and charming snakes. There seems to be no common cause and, without it, how does this get successfully wrangled on behalf of all LCs? I’m cornfusled.

Perhaps someone can speak to this issue that’s been bugging me. I have been wondering if LCs are communicating with their COs about all of this. I know many churches have filed to affirm their indemnification by the BSA, but what of those that are clueless? I’ve yet to speak with her, but my mom still attends the Catholic church that sponsored our Unit. I feel like it may be completely off their radar. I hate to ask her about it, but she is pretty connected and knows the people who handle business and whatnot, both locally and some in the Diocese. I will probably contact her in the near term. Thanks for any insight you might be able to lend.

No. She already said Zoom or in person. He’s asking for a Covid-based fairness modification. During the hearing, he did protest the failure to consult with all mediation parties prior setting the meeting. His point is well taken, but very problematic. Zoom is terrible for this. Maybe they go to LA where he is. That may be the push. Well, I guess she could, but I highly doubt it with his Covid argument. Neutral turf would be best imho. No one asked me though. I’m still voting for Lawyers’ Survivor Island.

He is lead, as in totally and unequivocally lead, counsel. It cannot and will not happen without him, regardless the venue or medium.

I apologize for being overly involved and responding so frequently. I think I should allow you guys to strategize and discuss your concerns and plans among yourselves I may chime in at some point later or if invited.

A few things: 1) It’s ultimately going to be much more than that amount, if the BSA is to emerge from this. You’re right. The attorneys will do very well at 40%, for sure. I may be stupid, but I am not giving away that kind of money. I’m doing this is for my family and will fight my own battle, as best I can. (Thankfully, another survivor claimant has allowed me to talk with him about the case and it is a huge blessing to me. A godsend.); 2) Some, hopeful many, will face public humiliation, but I agree that’s not enough. As for me, I’ve tried to put him in prison for almost 20 years. No justice there; and 3) All who’ve read my posts know I sympathize and it pains me, but are any young volunteers stepping forward to swap places with us? “Abuse” for abuse? They’re not and thank God they can’t. Part of our end goal is to up the ante on making sure sexual abuse of children happens as little as humanly possible to their benefit, I believe.

I’m thinking not. Is there really a sense that this was the directed multiplier to arrive at $6000 per survivor?

Popped up on a search this morning. https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime-and-courts/madison-boy-scouts-to-sell-camp-indian-trails-to-cover-sexual-abuse-settlement/article_43d399b7-c06f-5049-8875-07246ce13eba.html

Righto. I'm pretty sure they still have them. My sense. The stiff arm was a no reply. I was also contrasting the two as a segue into my little personal story. Truth is, I think the silence from the LC was about the case and they were already circling the wagons. They are fully lawyered up. I believe they knew this was coming and were aware of the abuse, or rumors of it, even if not officially reported. I started poking around in 2002-2003. I can't go into greater detail here.

At one point several years ago, I contact my LC to see if they had a list during my period of Scouting. I was just interested in refreshing my memory and to see who among my younger brothers’ group had joined. Stiff arm. In contrast, in late 2019 when I decided to join NESA as a part of my healing (a big deal for me), they found me pronto. I got all my trinkets in short order. As you will note, my timing is not particularly great. The fecal matter hit the wind machine a few short months after I challenged myself to, “let the healing begin.” Can you say, retrograde motion? I should add, the decision to reengage was received with disbelief by most. Not many "Well, good for you!" comments. "Are you sure?!" and "Have you lost your _____ mind," echoed through the trees down on the farm.

FYI. BSA - Transcript for 03-11-2021 Town Hall.pdf

Yup. Many here have reported that. My ability to connect with that experience is difficult, since my Troop was completely awash in booze, pornography, filthy language and, obviously, sexual abuse. Before I got out, even the last in the list was getting to be out in the open, public type behavior. It was played off as manly crudity and displays of virulence.

One reason I asked is borne out of my interest in culture and sociology. I haven’t done any study, but we became quite the “drop off and go” parenting culture in the 50’s and it accelerated. The helicopter parenting and college resume building era reduced some of that, for good or ill. If that is the case, our level and frequency of entrusting our kids, as opposed to many cultures where parents are typically and highly engaged with their children, would logically create more opportunity for abuse in the US. Does that make sense? If I were to hazard an “I wonder,” I think our culture of, “you can teach them something (and do a bloody good jon or else) while I do something else,” productive or not, is a contributing factor. It definitely exacerbates the issue with gaps in the volunteer base, which in turn made/makes scrutinizing applicants more burdensome, etc. I’d like to see a study. Is it still a drop off and go deal? I went to quite literally every one of our oldest son’s events and coached. I did as many as I possibly could with our youngest, though at boarding school five hours always. I knew his teachers, advisors and coaches well. I put on over 40,000 miles in that four year period. My dad went to nothing. I wasn’t going to let that happen.

Regardless, is the abuse universal? Any data? Don’t worry. I’m not looking to export a team of miners and aggregators to the four corners and I was never involved in international Scouting.

Surprise. I skimmed. That’s globally and qualified with “at least.”

Scout.org says 500M Scouts of some kind since inception. Is that the generally accepted number?

1) In the MN case where the BSA’s own expert was “forced” to reveal the internal data she discovered, the number of perpetrators was 7800+ and known/identified victims 12,000+. This was not revealed until she was made to do it under oath. Looked mucho bad; 2) Pedophile predation studies indication the 1 perp x 100 victims over the course of their active predation x 7,800 = a huge number, as in 780,000. Not all could be said or alleged to have been Scouts but, again, terrible implications and optics; 3) To my knowledge, no follow up investigation or inquiry was done after that in court revelation; 4) As seen in the TCC’s Analysis of Claims, 11,000+ have occurred, based on the filings without further investigation or discovery, since YPT. As CynicalSouter has illustrated - though strongly rebutted by another - statistical analysis at least arguably shows a “correlation,” not necessarily causation, between enrollment decline and the reduction in incidents post YPT. Not definitive, but worthy of analysis and more bad optics; 5) Men, on average discover and/or disclose and/or emerge from a latency period of denial in their 30’s, lending further credence to sizable batch of future claims hanging out there; 6) The case had a mandatory Bar Date of November 16, 2020. What if that period was 1 year or more; and 7) BSA has been paying on cases for years, one as high as $19M and change, evidencing the high value “at trial” of even a small number of claims. We are beyond the point of questioning the basis/presence of negligence and liability. We are where we are. Estimation will allow for argument about value, but not arguing negligence or baseline liability, in my view.

Do you have any more detailed knowledge of the inner workings of past cases? I note that a few are month-long trials and we have a massive case, comparatively.

"There are no stupid questions," as they used to tell us. We all benefited from DLL's excellent explanation.

Yes. Asset valuations. But, that's only half of the equation. This is about valuing the claims, which would inform what's "needed" from those assets to make a deal.

I don't see this happening, given the sum and (lack of) substance at Wednesday's hearing. I think the TCC is heading for the estimation trial to get relative clarity on the aggregate dollar value, which can then drive people to the table. Currently, there is nothing to compel anyone anywhere, and the judge was basically just admonishing. I don't see a belly up to the bar and show your cards moment happening "voluntarily" in the near term. Not from what I heard and saw. The more I look into it, the more I like estimation. I don't mean for me as a claimant, necessarily, but as a "Solomon and the baby" moment. Let's see who twitches, blinks and tells.

I agree. I realize the lurking White-Bearded Shark says differently, but we know almost 60,000 of the (current) pool of survivor claims derive from closed states. Granted, many who filed claims by "absentee ballot" may be unaware of what's what, but getting kicked to state court is not a good result for the vast number of us. My state has pending SoL "reform" legislation, but many do not. Even given that legislation, it's far from a guarantee of change any time soon. As for me and my house, I really want this to work. Foolishly or not, I feel like it can, it should and it will.

I'm just looking for case examples and articles. It's pretty interesting.