ThenNow

TV interview with Irene Taylor, the director of the film. The genesis of the project is related to her being an Oregonian who watched their Supreme Court rule to admit the IV Files as evidence in the 2010 case of Lewis v BSA. https://www.kltv.com/2022/06/10/boy-scouts-documentary-investigates-history-abuse-allegations/

Nice. I asked a question, however compound. Just trying to understand your expertise. I did see the career notation, but not specifically regarding non-profits in Chapter 11. Your aggressive and defensive responses don't help your cause/case, whatever that is beyond the aggression. Part of the repeated suggestion that you read the previous Chapter 11 threads and posts is to give a perspective on some of the reasoned analysis both by other experts and to understand the views and perspectives of those now posting on this topic. Okay. Fire away. I have my shields up and photon torpedoes at the ready.

Yeah. My home LC is broke, too. $30M worth of broke.

Just watched it again. A few things that stood out to me when I was not so off balance and reeling: * Stephen Crew, Esq. (CrewJanci) - These men are "haunted by who they would have been if this hadn't happened to them." I've wondered about that ghost who's been shadowing for 50 years. Good to have him identified. * Jim Turley (Former Chair and CEO of Ernst & Young and Past BSA President) - When asked if BSA would be different culturally and operationally following the bankruptcy, he said, "I think the cultural changes around youth protection have already been made. We're not going to be more focused on this because of going through the bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a process to compensate victims not a process of changing the characteristic of Scouting." Well, just ouch and holy guacamole. Thank GOD the first vote failed and the Survivor Working Group and TCC got a crack at rewriting what BSA had in that initial plan to "enhance YP." Their successful efforts to ensure enforceable changes both culturally and organizationally. Again, THANK GOD! * Paul Ernst (Former Keeper of the IV Files) - When it was put to him that he/BSA kept all the records confidential, he responded, "Sure." When it was put to him that he/BSA didn't share the information with the public or even parents, he said, "Yes" that's "true." He continued, "Here's the thing. You don't give it out to the public. You don't tell people that this person has done something that will affect his job or his relationships with others and so forth. We're not the type of person that wanted to do that to an individual." What? Not even in corroborated and clearly convincing cases? As I've said, I and MANY OTHER BOYS would have been saved from early 1973 forward had the LC, including the SE, warned other local leaders, parents and Scouts AND specifically called out the behavior he knew was going on in our Troop that mirrored the IV case across town. He knew about the porn and the drinking and, based on his efforts to have sex with me when I was 18 (and possibly 17...it's fuzzy), he may well have been complicit. So, per Ernst, this was not just about the reputation of BSA but also the predators. If they had just identified the incident and described the grooming, etc., that would've helped. I now recall the abuser in the case I mention, the ASM and COR, was noted as "resigning for personal reasons" in the fine. Personal indeed. Ack. * John Stewart (Uber Successful Brand Guru, Survivor and Past (?) Managing Director of Corporate Engagement & Sustainability and sounds like some other stuff in Global Scouting) - He put together in one sentence the abuse with the line that "Scouting prepares you for life." Hm. In his final segment, his only moment of emotion is when he said, "I'm confident Scouting will survive. I'm hopeful Scouting will survive." Odd juxtaposition in the course of his several segments where I found him sorta smug and self-promoting. Custom BSA saddles and silver medallions. Bad form to trumpet, IMHO. NOTE: Again, I am simply reporting some of what struck me the second time through the film. /s/ Glutton for Punishment

Q: Are you a federal Chapter 11 bankruptcy attorney that has worked on multiple large non-profit cases? Judge? Law professor? Paralegal? Clerk? WSJ Bankruptcy Pro reporter? Not poking, just asking.

That was Nigel Jaquiss, the investigative reporter who drove the project and is the featured on-screen narrator.

The ABA Commission to evaluate the Code of Judicial Conduct explicitly addressed the research issue in the 2007 ABA Model Code. Rule 2.9(C) provides: “A judge shall not investigate facts in a matter independently, and shall consider only the evidence presented and any facts that may be properly judicially noticed.”

I just finished it 30 minutes ago and agree with every word in this post. Jim Turley did the BSA no favors and probably caused more damage. He put his foot up BSA's mouth all the way to his hip. Smug, defensive and revealing. I was very surprised at what he said and the way he said it. He did "better" on his last appearance. Though a survivor, John Stewart was smirking half the time and was filmed at what was apparently his horse ranch. He showed off his custom saddles with custom made silver medallions in tribute to BSA. His commentary about not having to take a pay cut to work for National was a jaw dropping bit of...I will refrain from what I want to say. As to its impact on me, I was and am still disoriented to the point of feeling off balance and a bit nauseated. "The body keeps the score."

Again, apologies, but are you really saying that to me? You've read my posts and, frankly, it shocks me you would say that. Oh, well. Commerce is dead. Film makers should be non-profits and make no money for their work product. Oh, wait. Hm. Isn't BSA a non-profit? No more charges for uniforms, camps, patches... Yes. It has gone on far too long. My first summer camp started 50 years and one month ago today. You may recall, that will usher in the 50th anniversary of my first abuse. I'm not baking a cake or having a surprise party. Cards, letters, cash and well wishes NOT requested.

Oh, my. This is a VERY troubling, angry, reactive and clearly prejudicial statement sans confirmed facts. “Book. Cover. Etc.” Who are you speaking of regarding disgorging profits? I find that very close to the line of utterly absurd. Are you indicting those watch the film? Want some money from Ron Howard and Brian Glazer? They have gobs of money. You have NOT even watched it. Are you interested in the truth? Truth requires humbly receiving and assessing all data. I came to this forum because I’m interested in that precious outcome and in contributing to it. This is troubling. Is an effort to understand others’ views worthless? $15 is a piece of pie and cup-o joe. Yikes…

100% agree. I didn't mean to suggest it had not balanced out, especially once the bar date passed and claims were tallied, and later as survivor letters started flooding the docket.

You’re welcome, but no. No “finally” about anything. It’s been said before and the judge’s statements have been reported here via several previous posts, way back in the olden days. You rebuffed someone and asserted, by implication, the judge is not interested in seeing Scouting continue. Or, at the least, she is ambivalent. Maybe you were trying to bait someone into saying #3? Not sure. I stated the facts. You seems to want to impute your opinion on others without stating it. Say what you mean and suffer the bellyache. I’m not sure what game this is, but I don’t think you’re winning. Personally, I’ve stated my feelings about Scouting, as in current and future, both here and by past actions. Some survivors don’t agree with me, which is fine. I honor them and their view. What has been objectionable is people asserting there are two equally “victimized” camps here. One, CSA survivors, the other current and future Scouts. I am not asking or inviting further dialogue on that topic, just creating the historical context.

Forgive me, but you're sorta shooting at a target in the dark and speculating where it is and what the bullseye looks like. 1. Because a good case has been made, including by many survivors. Ask the US Trustee what we said when we applied for the Tort Claimants' Committee. 2. Because she said so. Repeatedly. At one point it was so obvious I was objecting and wrote the Trustee about it. Survivors seemed a distant second, at best. 3. She strongly expressed her concern about the nearly 1M Scouts who are innocent in this and who find great value in Scouting. She did that out loud in open court. It's in the record. Again, ignores the facts and states facts (not at all) in evidence. I believe you're projecting a personal assessment and opinion onto the judge and into the fabric of the case, which I have been part of for almost 2.5 years.

ABC is the media collaborator on this project. In a recent release, the writer made the following statement. Not a quote, but still. The latter part is huge “Um, say what?!?!” If they think that and say it publicly, that’s a problem. The Coalition has sorta perpetuated this notion. Wonder where they got this idea or if they’re simply hyping the film. The organization filed for bankruptcy in February 2020. Since then, more than 82,000 men have come forward with claims of abuse. The proposed reorganization plan for the BSA would include the largest sexual abuse settlement in history, even dwarfing payouts from the U.S. Catholic Church. https://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwtv/article/ABC-News-Announces-LEAVE-NO-TRACE-Documentary-20220606

Is that in bankruptcy court? From what I've learned and observed being present and accounted for at nearly all of the hearings, it's quite a different animal.

This is what I hear. Carve outs, do overs, "this issue is a no-go" and the like. If she is not essentially structuring and teeing up the do overs, this will be a mess me thinks. Yeah. Zero percent chance she's at the shore. This is too big, too time sensitive, too high profile, too costly to all concerned, and too complex to do anything other than slog through it. I wonder, does a judge get access to consultants, other than clerks?

Relative outsider here, but someone who did what there was to do in Scouting (as a youth) and went on after I turned 18. Many here know that story and I won't reiterate it. A few thoughts and questions: 1. Has there every been a national leader who has not come up through the ranks or who has a significant background in Scouting? I know the new GC was not a Scout or Scouter. 2. Who is BSA's PR firm? Did they have one prior to the CSA litigation and, again, who was it? If you don't have some sort of "outside" media consultant not constrained by the leadership bubble of the "Scouting way," that's a huge red flag. I was ED of a medium size non-profit in the late 90's and we had a marketing firm and a PR firm. Also, they were current and not old school. 3. My atypical Eagle project was a marketing slide presentation promoting summer camp, generally. I conceived it, took the photos, produced, executed and deployed it within the LC. It was complete with script, followup instructions and other guides for presenters who took the show on the road. From what a recall it was a big success. I still have some of the slides that didn't make it on the carousels. No one had thought of it before that, as far as I know. I felt like we did a poor job of promoting all we had going for us, even then. 4. I was awarded my Eagle in 1975 (earned in 1974), left Scouting in 1979 and never heard from anyone - nary a peep or a post card - since. The first contact was when I sent a letter to the Local SE and Mr. Mazzuca in 2008 telling them about my abuse, including naming my SM abuser. I received no response. 5. I reached out again in 2019 and was put on the LC Executive Board as a donor. When the Chapter 11 case started and my name was appearing in print media, I was no longer on the letterhead. 6. I have continued to be baffled by the lack of engagement, "getting out front," and reading things that are low hanging fruit as far as marketing, promoting and interfacing with the NON-Scouting world. Failure to engage and invite survivors into the YP conversation is one of the absolutely glaring gaffs. That's all I have, for what it's worth. BSA needs to unstick itself from the past on many fronts or risk dying in that very mud.

Ack x ack. Was there any hint going to from whence cometh this foul smelling breeze?

You're talking about under the plan, regardless the before or after 1976, yes? IF they're not released, the stay of litigation including live and yet to be filed cases revert back to state courts for litigation and/or settlement. Defend, assert defenses, engage discovery of all types, wrangle through insurance coverage, and the like. In that scenario NOT that it's what's going to happen, it's an "all LCs and COs fend for yourself state of play. I could be wrong. I'm having an out of body day. (Nod to Dr. Strange.) Apologies to the moderators if this is out of place, but I was attempting to answer the question. Ty.

That's what I figured. Nope. No absolution via release from liability unless and until the plan is both approved by the bankruptcy court and then blessed by the District Court. It could all crumble, especially the release of Local Councils and Chartered Organizations. Could being operative. I think Judge Silverstein knows full well what would happen if the third parties are not release. Regardless, I don't understand why National does such a poor job of keeping local Scouting apprised. Maybe they do and I just don't see/hear it.

Riddle me this: What happens if the Chapter 11 global settlement whittles down to the BSA only, Toggle Plan? Did the real estate attorneys for any of these LCs factor in the prospect of retraction or delays in closing, pending the completion of the case? My assumption is, no, since no one expected it to go on this long ON TOP OF most LCs being repeatedly told, "All is well. You're fine. Scouting continues. You're not in bankruptcy, your money won't be needed, no camps will be sold..." Also, what is the mechanism for delivery the cash and is it all going into a sequestered escrow with the court?

I was just about to paste it...D-2. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/da60d7ce-df85-45e9-9737-4dd1a5d50014_6445.pdf "Missed it by THAT much." (Nod to Get Smart)

May not be what you referenced, but the TCC's LC digits are here, which include properties. https://www.tccbsa.com/local-council-analysis

Appraised value, market value, tax roll value, value after variance and rezoning...?

What’s the Chapter 11 record? We might as well set another while we’re at it, eh?