ThenNow

I’m sort of responding to this after reading the docs and also just saying how I continue to feel about the process on Day 538+. One of the other things that makes this so gut wrenching for me, speaking for myself as a victim claimant, is it’s almost impossible to discern what is cover fire for my/our cause, what is incoming and what is friendly fire. Not being able to tell who is for me and who’s agin’ makes the churning all the worse. Should I hope the insurers succeed in getting to rummage around in the potentially fraudulent claims and expose some no good attorneys or not? Does what the BSA may be hiding from the insurers matter to me or not? If they get it, will it help or cause harm? If the COs manage to get significant leverage and stall approvals, then what? Is hoping for an AIS smack down purely me wanting to put some bad apples in their place and make attorneys behave honorably or would it advance the cause? What is Mr. T hiding and does it matter one iota...? I do a whole lot better when I don’t have to engage (or even try to monitor) five different fronts in a “jungle warfare” case. It wears me out to no end. I’m not necessarily looking for someone to respond to those points, arguing one way or the other. I’m just laying on the virtual shrink’s sofa and exorcising an exhausted, musty, Monday afternoon exhale.

And, I think it’s critical not to lose sight of a fact that isn’t being discussed here (at this moment). Among the “bogus” claims, the insurers are cloaking their position that 50,000+ Gray Staters are equally invalid on their face. Their definition of the word “bogus” massively diverges from mine. Reference my camel, his nose and this big circus tent.

Yes, and, perhaps, he was abducted by Galactic BSA aliens at the precise moment he was about to become of age and they took him either forward or backward in time (we really don’t know) and did sexual and unspeakable things to him, but the question persists as to whether he was of age in the time/space continuum of galactic travel such that he may or may not have been a minor and we’re unable to locate the Captain’s Log from the craft that took him, though he did manage to snap a selfie with the fairly clear image of the tail numbers...? What is the precise point to all of these posited what if’s? PS - The BSA Galactic Aliens were sponsored by a local NM peyote devotee club and met weekly at their smoke lodge.

I am grateful for this clarification, which was also found in the Ernst memo.

As a matter of principle and constitutional rights, I would seriously consider switching. I love the motive, as stated, but I don't trust said motive any farther than I can toss my truck.

"YAY!" as to trying to address child victimization, BUT huge "ACK!!" as to privacy!! Wow.

Q: Are there examples of the victim claimants' submission forms/claim summaries used by other Great and Powerful wo/men of letters in mass tort bankruptcies?

On a related note, I've asked this before and didn't get any replies. I completely understand if no one here knows the details on this one. If I missed the answer(s), please forgive me and I'd love to be directed to anything posted. I am keen to understand when the counseling reimbursement program started, under what/whose directive, if it was proactively offered or had to be discovered and sought by victims. To drone on, I first gave BSA notice of my abuse more than a decade ago and didn't get a reply, much less an offer of counseling reimbursement. (I do apologize for asking again, but it's all John's fault.)

He lives!! So the SE in my tale of woe had this. Well now.

Ah. Gotcha. The other guys would be best able to update you on that. I can also tell you, as you may have read in my posts, the SE managing this matter knew about the booze and pornography in our Troop. He participated, in fact. How can that be seen as anything other than willing complicity, failure of the duty to warn and effectively accessory to the crime of abuse? He was the dang SE for cripe’s sake. He knew we were being provided those things. In light of the criminality alone, exacerbated by his knowledge that these are elements OF abuse and precursors to illegal sexual contact, he did nothing. Well, other than *Wink wink. Nod nod* I hate that those two boys went through what they did, but finding that file changed my perspective entirely.

Was my post on the ‘73 IVF of any help?

“That canoe trip was amazing until Grampa fell in and drown.” ”Yeah. I know. He ruined everything.”

Easy fix: Do a global search for “employee” and replace it with “agent.” Bam. Liability B.I.N.G.O. Agency is the issue and there’s that in spades. Legally, there’s no question or doubt. Employee was used loosely, I think. Carry on...

I’m not sure who’s using it as an example of a case that was handled poorly, at least not as to my previously noted Phase II. I posted it in response to John asking how these things were handled and reported in the day. His “day” was the 60’s. Mine, the early 70’s. I figured this would work.

This not my case. As I mentioned, this is an IVF I plucked from the online record that was logged in my town and LC. It is very relevant to my case and claim. Still want me to answer? I have no emotional attachment to this case and, I think, have been pretty open and willing to answer any and all questions about my own experience. Thanks.

Sorry. I didn’t realize it mattered. Wouldn’t mind but I have no clue how to do that. I reiterate, I’m a dork. Add: I think I did it. Probably ham-fisted, but you’re erased from the record.

3 hours ago, johnsch322 said: No need to apologize....I am not immune to go off myself. The point I was trying to make was there may not have been YP if pressure had not been exerted upon the BSA. I was a scout in the 60's and I am not sure whatexactly was the formal procedure for reporting was then. I’ve been through a number of the IVFs I could find. That’s how I came across the one relevant to my claim/case. It may only be anecdotal, but I can tell you exactly how that went down. I have the entire file and all the official communications that derived from the incident. Without detail, this is what it looked like: 1) 11 year old Scout was discovered going through his teenage sister’s intimates. His father reprimanded him. 2) The dad asked what the heck was going on and the boy told his parents about the incident. He and another 11 year old Scout were at the home of their ASM. He described being provided and viewing pornography, sex ‘toys’ with the ASM, and being invited and solicited to engage in physical sexual acts with the ASM and his female neighbor. 3) The mother immediately called the LC to report. 4) Apparently, though there is no mention, the SE called law enforcement and they interviewed the boys on May 26th. 5) They were found to be credible, per the police report, which is not redacted other than the names of the boys and families. 6) On June 7th, the ASM, who was also the Institutional Representative of the CO, was given a resignation letter to sign. It was witnessed by two unidentified parties. 7) The letter was copied to the Paster of the CO, the SM and SE. 8. On June 11th, the SE and Council President wrote a letter to Robert Kilmer, the East Central Region Director of Support Services. It appears someone at National referred them to this executive. The letter was copied to the CO and SM. 9) On June 15th, Robert Kilmer wrote to Joseph Early and referred the entire matter to him, copying the SE. 10) As is apparent from the next letter, Mr. Early forwarded the file to Paul I. Ernst, Executive Registration and Subscription. 11) On June 20th, Ernst wrote to the SE confirming receipt of the file and requesting follow up information, a letter from the SE and a Confidential Record Sheet. He told the SE it was all needed to “strengthen our position of refusing to accept any further application for registration from this individual...Unless we receive this material, it will be difficult to keep this man’s name on the Confidential File. Note: This is the first letter marked “Personal and Confidential.” Note: The “unless” statement by Ernst is troubling. 12) On June 26th the Chief of Police and lead Detective write the SE to forward the Police Report and to tell him the matter is still being investigated. They close by saying they hope the report is “of value to your decision about this individual.” 13) Confidential Record Sheet is dated 6.29.73. 14) On June 30th the parents of one of the boys wrote a “To Whom It May Concern Letter” to National (Earnst?), describing the incident, the impact it was still having on their boy and asking them to prohibit the abuser to be a part of Scouting. “If Mr. O is allowed to return as a Scout Leader we would appreciate being informed of this.” The abuser was married and the couple had a young boy. Back to my Phase 1, Phase 2 and Phase 3. Phase 2 appears to have worked well. Phase 1 vetting and prevention, not so much. Phase 3 and fully debriefing the situation and advising parents and Scouts about such dangers? Absolutely did not happen. You’re welcome to go back and read my posts relevant to this IVF and my claim/case. I hope this is helpful. PS - Why does the number 8 followed by a close paren result in a smiley face wearing classic Ray-Bans who refuses to leave the building? Thus, the period in place of the closed parenthesis. I’m a dork...

I can speak for myself. Yes. He came to the Troop in the first months of 1972, to the best of my recollection and from looking at the memorabilia I retained. My “Eagle Award Application” lists May 1, 1972 as the “Date Became a Scout.” First incident of sexual abuse was July 19, 1972. At that first Monday night meeting, which was May 1st, he pulled me aside and told me I had “leadership potential” and he would “let me join early” because he knew I would be an asset to the Troop. Does about 5+/- months count as “immediately”?

I think we need to keep in mind that fabricating abuse is rare, though I’m happy to exclude political and financial motives in the recent climate. As a victim, I hate it. “Entirely sure” is a very high bar that would likely negate a tremendous number of viable cases, at least before significant investigation. Young boys are quiet about these things and getting them talking details can be difficult. Successful criminal prosecution just can’t be the determinative factor in viability or grounds for exclusion. Highest standard of proof in our system.

The big ol’, ever looming, not to be ignored “IF.” [*gulp*]

As valuable and appreciated as the letters depicting victims personal abuse experiences are, they’re heavily redacted. Yes, they were directed to the judge and she read some, but that was not the only purpose or intent. Regardless, the flooding of the court at the behest of the law firms seemed odd to me, as well. As lead plaintiff in a class action suit, my attorneys certainly never directed or allowed me to “speak” directly to the court, other than in mediation sessions even though I technically spoke for the class. As someone who’s worked in politics for a while, as I step back and consider it, this does feel like a campaign. I think Andrew Van Arsdale’s past experience and expertise drove this entire thing. If you want an idea of what I’m talking about, he is a noted speaker on the website of “Mass Torts Made Perfect, LLC.” Yes. That’s a real thing. For the record, I’m being serious (for a change).

From The Mutts back in the day: On 7/1/2021 at 6:23 PM, CynicalScouter said: The Settlement Trustee shall be Eric D. Green and will be appointed by the Bankruptcy Court. I assume it is this Eric D. Green. http://www.acctm.org/egreen/ "He’s very close to BSA’s lawyers. He’s done a LOT of mediations for Sidley and Austin which are Lauria and Andolina’s prior firm. Green was rejected by the TCC as a mediation team member for that reason and others. He is said to have a god complex. Lawyers who had dealings with him were not complimentary. A vocal lawyer on the Coalition advocated hard for him a year ago."

Not at all because your point, which was to say I didn’t want a reply, was inaccurate. It’s seems to me you’re having a lovely conversation with yourself, serious or otherwise. From past experience, I’m using humor to diffuse not the seriousness of my replies or to diminish you, but to mask the degree of upset I have with your presumptions and mind reading. I asked if there was something else we’ve yet to hear. Simple question and others are asking it, as well.

I’m looking forward to understanding precisely what I lived through, in addition to child sexual abuse.

Ok. I give. You must be right. I thought perhaps something was missing from what we’ve heard all the other times. Fear not. I’ve been resoundingly put in my place. Or not. Never mind. Um. If, let’s say for gee whiz sake, a Boy Scout was sexually abused by his SM (and technically others) at the ripe old age of age 10 in 1972. Just to pick a random scenario. Did that fella live through this mystical period of laissez faire attitudes toward child molestation? To this question, I mostly certain request the honor of your reply. A lot of people were “alive” in this timeframe. Some of us actually “lived through” it. Big difference.