ThenNow

This is a compilation of just four of the most recent statements to this effect. Brief as it is, how potent indeed. If I scoured the forum, the thing would be many, many pages long and I would be required to resort to episodic thread divisions using Avengers episode titles. From reading these, I don't see how anyone could miss why BSA finds itself in this situation with child sexual abuse in Scouting. "Shhhh. If we don't say anything, no one will know!" Exactly, idiots. Know one knew...BUT YOU!!! This is what results from "poor communication and lack of transparency," "operational secrecy," "opaque" organizational structure, "cult-like" management, "blind discipleship," an "overall structure itself [that] is a dysfunctional alternate reality," and "top secret management." Good grief. Once again, from Patrick Boyle's book:

I’m taking that as an implied, return compliment. Making a cynical person blush takes a steady hand, a measure of skill and, undoubtedly, flare.

I don’t know how to link to old posts, on top of which this one is in the now time-barred previous episode, Episode IV: Fatal Revisions. So, this is from 8.2.21 REPOST As to the sense that “there’s not much that does help - no undoing what was done,” that’s true in part and less so as to the other. We can all agree about the undoing. What’s done is done, as to our historic BSA child sexual abuse. As I say, the abuse is the abuse is the abuse. It happened. It was bad. For many brutal. For nearly all of us, life changing to one degree or another. “Help” is very relative, of course, so it’s terribly hard to accurately define. I will give some examples of things that, for me, have qualified as “helping.” Then, I’ll recap what I said before about a good result, which would “help.” 1. Acknowledgment. I see you. I believe you. You are not alone. You are not forgotten. You are not crazy. You are not worthless. You have a future. You are a man. You did not invite this. You are not defective, even though you have been broken. 2. Listening. As you’ve seen/read, this forum has been helpful for some/many of us. It has been critical to my sanity since I first posted in December of last year. I’m grateful to have been welcomed, even in the midst of occasional canon fire. Sometimes, we just need to express the turmoil and be allowed to do so. It’s one of the most difficult things to do, especially when we are attacked for expressing it strongly. We’re doing our best, which may not seem like enough or an adequate excuse for heightened emotions. When others fail to consider what we’re going through and don’t understand we’re not just lurking around on an online forum looking to pick a fight, it is doubly difficult. When strongly challenged, especially as to our veracity or motive, we either attack back, flee or go numb. 3. Support. One of the ways people support me is by simply asking, “Is there anything I can do for you today?” Sometimes, they get frustrated when I say “not that I can think of,” possibly surmising I’m trying to be a martyr, carrying the burden alone. When, in fact, I often just can’t think of anything. It’s the ASK and the obvious willingness to DO something that is important. This is why when some of you ask me/us what are obviously compassionate questions about what can be done (for us and in the future of Scouting) it means so much. When I/we sense the sincerity and concern, followed by active (virtual) listening and reflective responses, it’s powerful. 4. Don’t Solve for X. We can’t be “fixed” or solved, as to what happened to us. Fix the BSA. Please don’t come with your tool kit and try to look under the hood of victims and do your magic to make things run smoothly. Men, in particular, can be prone to over-simplify, race to a diagnosis and set off banging on things to make them work. This is way too complex. As I’ve said before, if you want to really understand, you’ll need to study the subject matter. You can read, The Body Keeps the Score and Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving, to understand a bit about impacts. I can suggest others, as well. I could go on, but I’ll leave it there and other guys can add. I did this in a previous post about a “good outcome” and may have forgotten a couple points, but what would help at this stage, relative to the BSA drawing us out and into this would include: 1) YPT improvements (with all the elements I, MYCVAStory and others have noted); 2) Full disclosure and accountability; 3) AG investigations; 4) As much money as we can get; and 5) An actual apology, not just “We are so saddened...that some were abused while a part of Scouting.”

If you recall, there are specific, non-monetary components to this case that are very much appropriate to this discussion. Further, if you want to understand why so many people filed claims and why we are so vocal and descriptive about the life impacts of child sexual abuse — which has brought BSA into this situation — you’d want to know. Money? Yes. Compensation? No. Recompense? Yes. Accountability and acknowledgement of not only the abuse but the years of torment? Yes, most definitely. [Exclamation point] Your myopic opinion is pretty much just that. That’s not a judgement, rather an observation.

Not exclusively, in this case. Exclamation point.

You got that right. You’d have to find me and then make your way through my security to shut me up. Fat chance my droning will in any anyway be curtailed, other than by my bodychecker friend. Do you mean “where is the discussion...” here or in the press? If you’re inviting the neurobiological discussion and research articles, you may get more than one page. Lots more. Was the discussion you heard live or video? Want to go first? Also, I put together a pretty decent list in response to the “needs” question some time ago. As I recall, I answered a post by “WIMomma?” (forgive me if I got that wrong).

I appreciate the limited correction, but in the main CS has been a great source. Also, he sure ain’t gonna quote someone who doesn’t reinforce his position. I was also suggesting, but didn’t say clearly, that in addition to CS’s knowledge and volume of posts, I doubt TK is reading every line in the thread. He’s referenced CS’s posts before, who is often critical of National and LCs, though not with attribution, as here. Watch him and there are things to Tweet. As to the the point quoted above, haven’t we come to expect the unexpected from him? Know any other people with a lot of money and a passion (real or projected) who sorta feel they can Tweet with impunity. Morality and code of ethics aside, why not? He’s doing the Tweet thing as an influencer, actual or self-anointed. I’ll take this over someone who sings raunchy songs, wins Grammy’s and talks about political and social matters on which they aren’t qualified to speak and when they do it’s a hot mess.

If it’s of any benefit, the LCs have full access to the POCs implicating them, without redaction of the survivor claimant’s identifying information. The Ad Hoc Committee of Local Councils was allowed access to the redacted versions only. Also, once they are in the hands of the LC, their interpretation of “mandatory reporting,” per the Confidentiality provions of the POC, moderated or monitored in any way. That’s what I am being told. Once they have them, they can use that information as they see fit ONLY as to reporting and law enforcement.

If you noticed, the source he quoted from this forum is someone who has demonstrated an enormous breadth of knowledge of this case, BSA National, Local, Scouting on the ground and the law, generally. I doubt it was a random pick out a hat.

I have a friend close to the case on the victim side. He has occasionally body checked me if I seem to be going down a path that could be detrimental either to our case, overall, or the morale of our cohort. It’s been enormously appreciated, as I am prone to both verbosity and a quick trigger. Interestingly, he is a distance guy and I a sprinter. When we had to run the “440 yard dash,” the 100 and 200 guys buried ourselves amid the pole vaulting pit foam. I don’t like it, but he’s helping me realize I can’t even see the tape at this point. Don’t even get me started on avoidance measures when we were supposed to time on the half mile and mile. Called in sick that day.

He definitely is or via a surrogate. Count on it being a broad sampling of people involved or interested in the case, either personally, professionally or institutionally. Without question.

For you active Scouters, I hope this doesn’t put a damper on the candid discussion here.

Having been Executive Director of an organization with a couple $100M annual net revenue, there was a working board and an executive/advisory board. The latter was a list of people willing to be named on the stationary and included on marketing materials. Nothing more. In my involvement with other working and advisory/executive boards, the level of involvement was up to the member. Very very few advisory/executive boards did anything, except for my limited BSA LC experience. Maybe a press statement or appearance at a gala. Reticence or refusal to allow access to decisions and numbers, however, would not have been tolerated, especially by major donors on the executive board. That’s just stupid and self-defeating, in addition to bad business practice.

I don’t know the details, but am aware of this, generally. If you know some specifics, many have no clue that the TCC works hand and glove with a passel of the best, most experienced and most committed child sexual abuse attorneys on the planet. Well, that’s what been briefly stated in Town Halls. Any info to help understand this would be appreciated. Inquiring minds want to know.

If it was the Southernism, my wife is from the South. Coincidentally, kids went to school in NC, MS and Alabama x2 and one lived in Texas for four years. That’s the one who went to undergrad in MS. He says what I wrote about pretty much anything he really likes, especially food and things that go *bang*. Maybe that was it? Not sure if you’re from, have had many occasions to be in or are well acquainted with folks from the South, but it’s a common phrase. Dunno.

Sorry. I’m not sure what I wrote that wasn’t. No clue. Nothing intended. Please message me otherwise I may step in it again…

Same. I decided fairly early on, as in third grade at the latest, I wanted be a priest or an attorney. There’s logic behind that, but I’ll spare you. Other factors influenced my thinking. I bailed on the priesthood when I went to pre-Seminary in 7th grade. I made a hasty retreat after one overly ‘playful’ group shower with a young priest, and all that appeared to indicate. I was already in Scouting with all the mess that involved. I have distant cousins, one of each side of my family, who were convicted child sexual abusers. I knew about the priest years ago. I just found the Scouter two days ago. A very unpleasant discovery as I scoured the IVF from my home state. Two things: 1) With all I know about sexual abusers and predation, from experience, treatment, therapy, I honestly believe there may have been a degree of coordination between Scouting perpetrators. There are just too many indicia throughout the files and stories I know. Methods, grooming techniques and even language associated with camping and Scouting are eerily similar; and 2) I realize the Church transferred, which is unconscionable and BSA had less than robust ability to track. However, many cases illustrate how easy it was for Scouters to go abuse boys in another city or county. There are testimonies of guys talking about how easy it was for them. Lack of adequate means to search can’t be a basis for exoneration or rationalization. I’m not saying you are, just making the point.

https://www.kcic.com/trending/feed/worried-about-century/ PS - Dated, but it has a flowchart.

Yeah. Not what I was saying. I was asking if anyone could find/run numbers on the RCC cases. Even if priests moved, so did Scouter abusers, for a good number of years. I was just trying to isolate to find a comparative number for the extrapolation. Imprecise, but I would find it interesting and possibly enlightening, regardless the outcome. I don’t presume to know how it would shake out. We had this tennis match eons ago on this forum and I did my best to make the case that Scouting is a far more broad, deep and sheltered field for child sexual abuse. Raised Catholic to the extent that the only non-Catholic education I had was undergrad and a masters in my old age. I was also extremely involved in all manner of youth activities. Add up all the element of opportunity for abuse across and those activities and the fall well short of those available in historic Scouting. Others disagree, but I’m right. Take my word. I was first abused at my first Summer Camp a couple months after I signed up. Yup. My point exactly. Still, as you say, how do we know? We also know sexual abuse within families has always been highest. Agreed. If they had asked CHILDUSA and other child advocacy organizations, they could have disabused them of that notion. Big time. Tim Kosnoff, even.

Staying with the Catholic Church sexual abuse scandal comparison, not to mention USA Gymnastics and others, do they not follow the news? #metoo? Didn’t realize “this is not just about the money”? Say what?! That would be supremely boneheaded beyond compare.

Here are a few questions for the research team: 1) How many Catholic boys might one cipher were in a particular Diocese that went Chapter 11 over child sexual abuse claims; 2) Next, how many boys filed abuse claims in that case, maybe New Mexico; 3) Next, how many boys have been in Scouting since inception; 4) How many abused Scouts and abuser Scouters were identified in the released IVF; and 5) How many of each might one speculate were purged before that; and 6) How many victims does the average child sexual abuse predator have in their period of active predation? Now, someone mathy extrapolate the comparative numbers and do the calculations. I am very curious to see even some ballpark data.

Precisely: 1) Several meetings, including a two-day mediation; and 2) “it became apparent that attorneys for abuse victims believed certain Local Councils with significant abuse liabilities have significant assets that could be used to compensate victims.” They knew it was a specter, even if limited. Did they tell the open states they would need to cough up?

If I were any anywhere near the Ad Hoc Committee of LCs, I would have sent that script almost verbatim, save for fleshing out few bullet points. Honestly, I was musing about that very thing last night. Forgive me, but from a messaging and PR standpoint, not to do so is a very boneheaded thing to do (not do). It also does not help this process. By putting their feet in their mouths, as some are, it adds to our concerns about their lack of engagement, sincerity and contributions. They need to know some of us measure every word they say. I’m happy to use stuff against them when I go to the Settlement Trustee, but good grief.

Regardless, I know of no one on the victim claimant side who intended to give LCs a free pass to financial exoneration. None. That was clearly the intent. You’re saying National didn’t know that after who knows how many pre-filing talks with state attorneys? (I don’t think you are. It’s rhetorical.) I doubt it very much. Neither here nor there, at this point, but I respect and feel badly for the honest, earnest and committed Scouters who’ve had to take that dagger in the back.

If you go back and read all the post filing announcements from LCs about being untouched, unscathed and uninvolved in the Chapter 11, they are pretty revealing about how National runs this operation. I just did that and the delusion ran deep. I was told from the jump there was no chance they wouldn’t be pressed to contribute or many would be in court soon after discharge. How does that happen, I mean seriously? If some/any were successfully sued prior to filing, that’s a pretty clear indication of liability or exposure at the least.