Cambridgeskip

Interesting article in how it it brings up coming of age and manhood rituals. Such a pity that the writer used that observation to mount a political attack on the welfare state. The fact is that if welfare was the problem then Scandanavian countries would have the worst crime and poverty rates in the world. They don't. These rituals, often tied in with gangs do of course point to the very basic human need to "belong" to something. Scouting of course recognises this as to many other organisations. In the military you pass out from basic training, in scouts you get invested, at church you get confirmed and so on. ie it's not just about belonging to something it's about that something also acknowledging your membership of it. Which is one of the reasons scouting is so successfull. As NeverAnEagle points out if we, as responsible adults, don't provide a healthy sense and acknowledgement of belonging it's the gangs that will pick up the pieces and put them back together in a very ugly picture.

Eagledad, that's what everyone said would happen in the UK as well, it didn't happen. The reason is that different types of girls want to be scouts rather than Girl Guides. Best summed up the time my scouts had a joint wide games night with the Girl Guides who use our HQ. My girls dressed like the boys, walking boots, fleeces and not a hint of pink. The Girl Guides had pink wellies, flowery patterns on their hats and jumpers and had a general air of girlieness. Over 20 years on and girls still make up only 15% of scouts.

No help on the original question. But on the canvas v nylon debate it depends what we're doing this side of the pond. For summer camps we mostly use canvas patrol tents. If you've not seen them your side of the pond they are very common over here. Typically green canvas, ridge pole and two uprights, normally wooden. They come in different sizes but we reckon on being able to fit 6 cubs or 4/5 scouts in one depending on size. They are built like tanks and almost indestructable. We retired one last year that was getting a bit battered that we reckon is 40+ years old. They look like this http://www.blacksofgreenock.co.uk/acatalog/Stormhaven.html Problem is they are heavy and take quite a while to put up hence normally only used for longer camps. Our cub leader are particular fans because cubs either never bring a watch to camp or don't bother to look at it. So if it's light they get out of bed! Even if it's late June and it's light at 4.30am.... canvas tents are darker so the cubs sleep longer. For weekend camps we'd go for modern nylon tents as they are so much quicker to put up and can of course be carried in a rucksack. Alas though their life expectancy is a lot shorter.

Comment from across the pond..... We run cubs differently over here, running as a complete pack every week. In 2009 I switched from running cubs to running scouts and the generation I took with me from cubs to scouts were and always will be a special bunch of kids. They have now moved onto Explorers (Our 14-18 year old section) but to me they are still an amazing bunch of kids to me.

As above. Decide what you actually need (Treasurer, Secretary etc), identify who would be good, then go and ask them. Massed invites are just to easy to ignore, forget etc. And at times people think "it doesn't apply to me". When actually asked in person folks are far more receptive.

While I think this is a very well made film I’m not entirely sure what the point was. It is clearly aimed at youth recruitment but youth recruitment is not where the problem is. We currently have nearly 40,000 kids on waiting lists across all age ranges. What we need are more adults to open new groups to clear those waiting lists. TSA clearly understand that which is why most of their media presence is geared up to appeal to adults, and because of that I think very few youth members have even seen this film.

Kind of. There has never been a requirement for a youth member to have a religious belief, just make the Promise, all versions of which referred to a deity of some description. The consultation on an alternative Promise then started 10 months ago. It was done with so much fanfare that to be honest the conclusion was never really in doubt. I welcome it. (And I write that as a Christian) It means being fully inclusive and removes the last barrier to adult recruitment.

Just came across this on Youtube and thought I'd share Properly inspiring stuff.

Sounds like we're a bit ahead of the game here! The impression from responses is that world jamborees aren't as popular with BSA members. Any particular reason why?

Berliner - did you manage to get out to Gilwell Park while you were in London? Far more worth a visit than BP House. I have to confess to not being entirely clear what people mean by Car Camping? Can anyone explain?

So my older scouts are currently applying to be part of the UK contingent for the Japan 2015 world jamboree. And for my local area this is running late. In some areas interviews and selection weekends have already happened. So I'm curious, are we the only country to start the process this early? Or is it the same with you as well?

Eamonn, from what Berliner wrote I can concur, New Zealand scouting sounds very like the UK! Given the historical links I guess its not surprising. My group in Cambridge UK has links with a group in Cambridge Canada and they are also very similar. The empire may have (rightly) ended many decades ago but the cultural links still remain.

Thanks chaps! Sounds like its not just our side of the pond that people act like idiots. Although I guess hackers could be from anywhere on the planet.

Some of you know that I am a british scout leader who surfaces on here from time to time. Most of the time though I lurk on escouts.org.uk the Uk equivalent of this site You may see me here a bit more for a while. The reason being that earlier this week escouts got hacked by malicious hackers and it has been taken down while the damage is being repaired. So I'm going to have a rant. What was the point? Why? What did the hackers get out of this? I understand hacking government or military sites and such like because, if you are so minded, you may find out something I interesting. I understand hacking commercial sites because you can thieve money off people. I understand hacking and damaging political sites if you are militantly opposed to what they stand for. But to hack a website used by scout leaders to exchange ideas? Why would you do that? What the hell is the point of inflicting mindless damage to a website maintained by a group of volunteers who work tirelessly to operate a well moderated highly functional forum that makes some professional sites look like amateurs? I'm simply lost for ideas. Hopefully it will be up and running again soon (it's well worth a snoop by the way) in the mean time please forgive a Brit hanging around and probably asking dumb questions.

I did have a quick chat with my German scout but alas there is nothing that she is aware of. Sorry! That's not to say that there isn't. Let's face it, teenagers can be a little oblivious sometimes.

Now then.... One of my scouts is half British, half German and spends a lot of time in Germany and when she is there goes to a German scout troop. From talking to her I can tell you that scouting culture in Germany is quite different to the rest of the world. Germany's history means that there is a big mistrust of uniformed youth organisations and because of that scouts is a lot less formal than in the rest of the world. Uniform is worn generally only on very formal occasions and the whole structure and culture is very informal. It wouldn't surprise me if there were few if any formal publications because of that. We start back after the holidays on Thursday and will ask for you to see if there's anything to look for.

Merlyn - if I went fact checking on every single story in the Daily Mail that I considered dubious I would spend my entire life doing it. I have neither the time or inclination to do so.

Moose - I cant confess to having seen any other news source report this story but neither have I gone looking. Neither have I set out to research the story to debunk it. Time and inclination frankly don't allow it. So, you may ask, why have I been so bold as to suggest the truth is something else. Experience. Every time the Mail prints something about a subject I have a decent amount of knowledge on I find myself able to rip it apart with out so much as lifting a finger. An example. Take this story in the Mail where to read it you would think that scouts in the UK were banned from using knives. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211475/Britains-blade-culture-claims-victim--Scouts-penknives.html Utter nonsense. They simply cherry picked a few quotes from an article in the UK leaders magazine which gave an over view of our horrendously complicated knife law and turned that into knives are banned. The truth? Scouts should bring knives to scouts or camps when told to and to avoid any possible problem with the police have them in a bag rather than their pocket. How is that banned? Next up we have this article which says we have a special uniform has been introduced for Muslim girls. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2122446/The-new-Scout-uniform-Muslim-girls.html The truth? Utter nonsense. Both this dress and the t-shirt which they claim is normal uniform (a green long sleeved shirt, and dark blue combats with a group necker is normal uniform) are part of the iScout range which is baiscally an optional, casual set of clothing for wearing at times when full uniform is not appropriate. I personally have a very comfy iScout hoody that I bought a couple of sizes to large to put over multiple layers when it gets a bit chilly on camp. This dress was simply to provide something appropriate for girls from Muslim families in a similar vein. As it happens its actually very popular with non muslim female scouts. It basically follows the Mail's general editorial policy on scouts and guides which can be sumed up as "Baden Powell would be turning in his grave". I can give numerous more examples surrounding the proposed new promise, sex education, girls in scouts and plenty more. All of which cherry pick quotes and facts and turn the story into a lot of old nonsense. Ever time there are stories about scouts or guides or something else I know plenty about (I'd go for tax, lower division football and hill walking and climbing as my other speciality subjects) I can pick huge gaping holes in the story. All of our news papers are biased to one side of the political spectrum (right wing - Daily Mail, Daily Express, The Sun, The Times, The Telegraph, left wing, the Guardian, the Independent, The Mirror, The Scotsman) and to a greater or lessor or extent but the Mail is to be singled out for being the most outrageous of the lot. In short, its not worth the paper its written on.

You see your problem here is that you've taken something written in The Daily mail at face value. Alas this paper has a similar reputation in the UK as Fox News does in the USA. It is so biased and utterly dishonest on pretty much everything that it is referred to as The Daily Hate. I'm not sure what the truth of this matter is but I'd put a sizeable bet on it not being what was written here.

It's quite common in the former eastern bloc countries. I encountered some Hungarian scouts in 2005 at a jamboree in the UK. There were about 40 scouts with just 3 adults, the eldest of who was 20ish (if memory serves). They were all keen to exchange neckers and I still have a Hungarian one sewn on my blanket!

I'm not quite sure what the monarchy has to do with it (which for the record I think we should get rid of) however I can assure you quite categorically that it was the kids themselves that protested and wanted to keep them. Similarly the Girl Guides have actually re introduced them in recent years by popular request having gone through a period where they didn't have them. Again at the request of the girls. It's the same across nearly the whole scouting world.

The necker may have little practical purpose but the kids this side of the pond love them. A few years ago there was a proposal in the UK to get rid of them. There was near insurrection from the kids! It's a symbol of being a scout, each troop in an area has its own colours and the scouts show great loyalty to them, it helps unite and bind them together. In a practical sense if you are at a large event like a jamboree the troop necker helps easily identify your scouts in a crowd!

Do you have an equivalent of what we in the UK call a Troops (or Pack, or Unit) Assistant? We have SLs which is like an SM, ASLs which are like an ASM. But a troop assistant is rather different. They are basically there to turn up and be pointed in the right direction on a week to week basis. It's quite broad as well. Some chose to be uniformed some don't, some get involved in background planning, some don't. All in all it is a basic entry level position. If you don't have the equivalent it sounds like you could do with inventing one!

It all becomes easier to recognise when you take a step back and consider what the bible actually is. It is not one text. Instead it is a collection of 68(?) individual texts that were put together in an anthology in order to tell the story of man, God and their relationship with each other as Christians believe it. Yes there are common themes that the reader is intended to derive from it, but when each individual text was written down it was for a different purpose. Some are books of law, some are histories, some are letters to individuals or letters to groups of people. Some have purposes which are unclear. Most were written down many years after the events which they actually recount having been passed on by word of mouth before that. They were written in a variety languages, including some which have died out in recent years. Like any texts they were naturally influenced by the culture, politics and events of the day and need to be seen in that context. Once you understand and accept all those things it becomes much easier to see that there is more than one way of interpreting any individual passage and just because the literal English translation of a given passage seems at odds with current scientific understanding it doesn't need to create a massive problem.

Over here in the UK we found ourselves camped next to a troop from BPSA back in April. We found them lovely, welcoming people. They follow a very traditional programme very similar to the one originally used when scouting first started and with the same age ranges too. They have the same ethos as the UK scout association though so we found them very easy to get on with.