Cambridgeskip

Not sure if this should go in this form or international but nevertheless....... After taking a one year break in 2013 my troop's annual charity fund raiser, the Sun Run, is back. my merry band of scouts will be up all night on 21 June taking part in the Sun Run, an over night run, trek, crawl or whatever else it takes to cover the 18 miles from the city of Ely, along the river Cam back to our HQ in Cambridge. Setting off on the dot of sun set, 9.34pm, they will be aiming to finish before sun rise at 4.38am the next day. This year they are raising money for Child's Play, a charity who provide games, toys and generally try to brighten the lives of children in children's hospitals and hospices. While they are mainly a North American charity they do also support a number of children's hospitals in the UK and we have asked that our fund raising supports the nearest of these to Cambridge, Sheffield Children's Hospital. You can view the hospital's wish list here This charity was chosen by the scouts themselves and their desire to do something for kids who are not as fortunate as themselves is to their credit. If you are able to sponsor this event you can do so via the scout group website here. Remember that some of the scouts doing this are just 10 years old! Thanks you in advance for your generosity Love and hugs from across the pond!

I'm curious, what do you see as dumbed down about it?

Duckfoot/Skeptic; something to bear in mind though is the British culture. First of all the British are far less "out there" (for want of a better phrase) about religion than those in the USA are. Religion is something that most quietly get on with. We are frankly a bit uncomfortable discussing it. Just a national culture thing really. Why does that matter? Because it has historically been reflected in scouting. Yes there has always been a religious/spiritual element to the programe but it has never been as important to the programme as it has been to BSA. We are also a nation that doesn't like authority very much, in fact I think as a nation we invented "passive aggressive"! In short when we don't like a rule we don't bother shouting or protesting. We just ignore it. It's that simple. What this meant was that there have always been an awful lot atheists in scouting, despite the official ban on adults in "leadership positions" (Basically any role with the word "leader" or "commissioner" in it, there was no such ban for things like chairman, treasurer, skills instructor, campsite staff and many more) and most districts and counties quietly tolerated it unless someone's actions forced their hand. In effect, you basically had to be an evangelical style Richard Dawkins type atheist to not get in. The change to officially have atheist leaders was simply acknowledging what has been the reality for many years. Worth noting as well that has never been a technical ban on atheist youth members, although you could argue there was a constructive ban. As a youth member you have to make the scout promise to be admitted. Until 1 Jan this year the only official versions of the promise referred to duty to some kind of deity. If a youth member made the promise they were in, even if they turned round right after being invested and declared themselves to their leader as an atheist.

From the other side of the pond.... this varies depending on the group and what the demographic is like. My current group is pretty wealthy so long weekends tend to see most of them going away on family trips so we tend to avoid trips these weekends as the turn out is poor. My former group, near Newcastle, a much less wealthy part of the UK, the families were generally less well off so we could plan trips for whenever we wanted, including long weekends and generally get a good turnout.

I'll have to pick you up on that, no it doesn't. France, Netherlands and The Czech Republic have always had an atheist version of the promise. Although WOSM stated in 1932 that no further exceptions would be made they made one just last year and just last year approved a new one for the UK. All versions of it here. http://members.scouts.org.uk/factsheets/FS322016.pdf Dutch Promise here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_Nederland Also about countries with multiple organisations, again while it may be the case in some countries it is NOT the case in the UK. There is the UK Scout Association which admits members of all faiths and those of none (and at youth level has always done so, despite until this year needing to make a religious promise there was no actual requirement for youth members to have a belief in a higher being) and that is it other than non WOSM break away groups, just like there are in the USA. In most countries where different organisations exist there is normally an umbrella organisation which unifies them all and they typically cooperate. Germany is the best example of this.

Oh Lord! Benny Hill truly is terrible. My parents tell me he wasn't even funny in the 1970s. True British humour is normally a combination of an anti hero, biting satire and deep deep sarcasm. Best examples are Only Fools and Horses, Red Dwarf, Yes Minister and The Office. Also if you can track down the final episode of Black Adder Goes Forth you'll spend 26 minutes laughing at but the final two minutes either in stunned silence or openly crying. (That episode was first broadcast in November 1988 to commemorate 70 years since the end of the First World War) So if I was looking for classic American humour what should I track down? What are we not egtting over here that has you folks in stitches?

Now here's a thought from an outsider. Why does BSA need chartering organisations? Why can't it simply establish troops, packs and units simply as part of itself, much like they do in the UK. As an outsider looking in it sometimes seems that the whole structure is more trouble than it's worth.

Ah I see..... So American's do have a sense of humour

Would the NFL really be that precious about something clearly so tongue in cheek? Strange people! I might change the wording if they are likely to be twitchy about it. I didn't get to try the helmet on myself as it didn't fit (I have an enormous head, seriously, when I was a scout and went on a climbing trip they had to buy a helmet specially for me!) but I was fascinated by the pads. I hadn't appreciated how far down the torso they come. As for the set up.... The building you can see in the photos is not ours. We do have our own building but it is next to a school. The building you can see is that school! They allow us to use their playing field for free for pretty much anything except for lighting fires which is rather nice of them and we generally have a very good relationship with them. Our building meanwhile has seen better days and needs some serious refurbishment including a new roof (likely to cost around £70k, so serious money) and new toilets.

So tonight was game day as it were ...... All went very well indeed. I learned a lot about the game, nearly as much as the scouts did. By watching it being played by small teams (we played 7 a side) it helped show what some of the basic tactics were. Brief write up (and some piccies) on our website here

I can’t see scouting dying anywhere in the world. At the end of the day kids today or not that different to 100 years ago and won’t change that much in the next 100 years. There always has and always been will be great fun in getting out into the great outdoors with your friends, cooking something on a fire, sleeping under the stars and telling scary stories. Similarly there is a basic human need to belong which is particularly strong among teenagers. The patrol and troop system and the uniform help provide that sense of being part of something. What might vary, at any given time, is the popularity. Scouting has to adapt to the wants and needs of young people at any given time. I don’t think it’s any surprise that the one time numbers nose dived in the UK, during the late 90s, was following 25 years of no significant changes to the programme, uniform, age ranges etc. Prior to the mid 70s things were regularly tweeked and adapted. And as soon as there was a revamp in the early 2000s numbers took off again.

I have 4 scouts and explorers from my group going. Experience of a life time coming up I think!

From the other side of the pond..... it's quite common over here for non scout groups to use scout campsites. Includes Girl Guides, Schools, Boys and Girls Brigade, Wood Craft Folk and military cadets. Generally they are charged significantly more than scout groups. For the most part they have never been a problem. Once met some obnoxious wood craft folk but they have a reputation for being anti scouts. They laughed, teased and generally disrupted a campfire. They were politely asked to go back to their tents. Other than that though it's never been a problem.

You are probably the best judge of that! Anythign ;ike that would be included in the requirements for activity badges (what you call merit badges) Requirements for scouts here https://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=56,135,156 For explorers here https://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=56,83,94

Not as such, and worth bearing in mind that we don't have advancement as you know it. In the Beaver, Cub and Scout sections we have Challenge badges and a certain number need to be completed to gain the Chief Scouts Bronze in Beavers, Silver in Cubs and Gold in Scouts. For Scouts you need to do 8 of the 9 challenge badges. Requirements can be found here https://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=56,135,157 None of them have a position of responsibility as a specific requirement, but in several cases there are requirements where you would expect them to be a PL or APL to do it. In particular some of the options for the Promise Challenge such as reviewing an activity and suggesting how to do it better, or explaining the Promise and Law to a new scout would typically be done by PLs. In Outdoor Plus they have to lead pioneering, lead camp set up, plan a menu (among other things) again while this could be done by a scout other than a PL or APL it would be unusual. In explorers (14 -18) and Network (18-25) there are no Challenge badges instead they work towards Chief Scouts Diamond, Chief Scouts Platinum and Queen's Scout. Diamond requirements here https://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=56,140 QSA here https://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=56,141 The requirements are much more about personal development, service etc so wouldn't normally involve having a position of responsibility within the unit itself but may well involve such a position externally. Hope that helps!

PLs are typically appointed by the SL. Personally I will ask for outgoing PLs (ie those about to move to explorers) to give me their recommendations as to who should succeed them and generally will accept that recommendation but reserve the right to over rule them and indeed have done in the past. APLs vary from group to group. I ask PLs for their recommendations. Again I mostly accept it. In others PLs are given complete authority to appoint their own. In others the SL does it. It's quite variable. In some groups the GSL may be consulted by the SL but in mine he remains quite hands off.

So I'm back..... A bit of clarity about the committee and scout council. The committee has oversight of the group. As a minimum it consists of a Chairman, Secretary and Treasurer. Their most important roles are fund raising, recruitment of new adult leaders, looking after the group's building if they have one and negotiating terms with whoever they rent one. Typically they have little to do with the actual week to week programme so it is no real surprise that the chair you encountered didn't know much about how the troop operates. Also sitting on the committee is the Group Scout Leader and, if they wish, the Beaver, Cub and Scout section leaders. The elected members (so everyone other than the GSL and section leaders) are elected by the group scout council which is the electoral body of the group. This consists of all the adult leaders, parents of all beavers, cubs and scouts plus the district commissioner and district chairman plus the patrol leaders of the scout troop. Chapter and verse here https://members.scouts.org.uk/documents/DocumentUpload/Jan2014/POR_Jan2014_chapter3.pdf Worth remembering that in the vast majority of cases we have no equivalent of a chartering organisation. A handful of groups are "closed" groups and are typically operated by private schools. They are increasingly rare. The vast majority are open or sponsored groups. In both cases the group is a charity in itself and is entirely self governing. A sponsored group is most commonly sponsored by a church or other place of worship but the amount of say the sponsoring authority has is relatively limited. Typically the relationship works by the group uses a church hall for its HQ and the group is expected to take part in church parade once a quarter and the church has a rep on the group committee. Back to youth leadership; Senior Patrol Leader - to be honest in most cases this tends to be more of an honorary position for a PL that has shown particularly strong leadership and in some cases will also remain PL of a particular patrol. Camps - due to the younger age of scout section it is relatively unusual for scouts to camp without adults. Many troops don't do this at all. My troop does but we do insist that they use scout or Girl Guide campsites which have staff on site over night. What more do you need to know?

Hopefully I can help you there.... "Sections" - this is effectively a collective noun for the different age ranges. So a group will consist of a Beaver colony, Cub Pack and Scout Troop. The leaders in charge of those 3 are refered to as the "section leaders" with a Group Scout Leader (GSL) in over all charge. Explorers are controlled at District Level rather than group. As an example my district is made up of 21 groups plus 6 Explorer Scout Units. In terms of operating the Scout Troop it is worth remembering that our age range is 10-14, it does mean that what you can ask of the PLs is limited compared to what they are asked to do in BSA. Typically a troop will have a PLs council a couple of times a term where the PLs will plan the term. It will vary from group to group as to how much they actually do. I will typically listen to what they want to do, give some advice as to what is possible and what is not easily feasible. The adult leaders then take much more of an active role in making the programe than they would in BSA. However on an actual troop night the PLs would be expected to lead their patrols. A good example is towards the end of last term we had a First Aid exercise night. There were 5 bases, each run by a leader with some explorer scouts (14-18 year olds) brought in as actors to play the casualties. In each scenario the Patrol Leader was expected to instruct their patrol in what to do. At the end it was the adult leader who gave the debrief on what went right and what went wrong. That is all farely standard. On a troop camp the Patrols will typically camp together and cook together. In some situations you may find that they centrally cater in which case the Patrols will be on a rota basis. On cooks breakfast, another cooks lunch etc. Again a PL will be in charge. In explorers it varies as to whether the patrol system is used, to be honest its normally in the minority of cases. One thing explorers can do is be part of the Young Leader scheme whereby they are effectively apprentice leaders with beavers, cubs or scouts. I have 3 YLs with my scouts and 3 of the adult leaders with the troop came through the YL system. So it works! That is a very brief summary. Alas (actually huzzah!) I am off out for dinner with the lovely Mrs CambridgeSkip in a few mins so must go and shower and change, I will be back on this thread tomorrow sometime and will happily add more detail and answer questions.

Tonkatim - we're always keen to try something new! We have in the past lost a few kids to sport as they get older and don't have as much free time and are forced to chose as school work mounts up. This time last year we had a set of twins, one chose scouts the other chose cricket. Just the way it is some times. As you say, it will be interesting to see what the rugby players make of it. I've always meant to get round to reading up on the history of the two games, they have so many similarities that I would be amazed if they didn't have some kind of common roots.

Why did BP first set start scouts? Because he realised young people could be useful members of society. It was quite simple really. Cell phones and smart phones are here and here to stay. They are simply part of the world we live in and will be part of the world the scouts enter when they are adults. Courteous and sensible use of them is something that we can teach simply as part of the programme. eg I expect them to be put away during meal times. It gets them used to how it will be when they go out to work. I wont lend them a charger or allow them to use mine if the battery runs out, They learn the hard way how to nurse their battery life. Trying to ban them is a hiding to nothing and misses the chance to teach valuable life skills.

So I;ve been speaking to the Cambridgeshire Cats American Football club this evening and they are coming in on 8 May to run flag football with us plus give a bit of a demo with the pads and helmets. I'm looking forward to it as much as the kids are I've always been keen on every now and then binning the standard programme and doing something completely different. This is certainly in that tradition!

Ah you're coming across the pond! As Moggie said, forget BP House. It's just a scout owned hostel these days. Gilwell is a much better bet. Phone them in advance and you will find the staff very helpful. Elsewhere round London the museums already mentioned are well worth a look. For other cheap/free things around London I;d suggest; Changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace. Normally around 11am (although check in advance) a truly fantastic bit of pomp and ceremony. Watch the buskers and street entertainers around Covent Garden and Leicester Square. Some are incredible If you want to splash some money (London is not cheap Tower of London - see the crown jewels! St Paul's Cathedral - view from the top of the dome is fabulous London Eye (Big wheel opposite the houses of parliament) If you want a day trip then I can of course recommend Cambridge! It's 45 minutes on the train from central London and I'm happy to meet you and give a bit of a guided tour (work/summer camp permitting) and of course our cubs would probably be pleased to meet up with you as well. When exactly are you coming? Our group website is here for info about us http://www.12thcambridge.org.uk In Scotland you can easily spend 4 days in Edinburgh. One of the ghost walks or underground Edinburgh tours are well worth a go. I'd also though recommend getting out into the Scottish Highlands if you like the great outdoors. Be aware, our mountains may be small compared to yours but the conditions you can face can be very wild indeed. Make sure you go properly equipped!

If you are going to try it it's important you have someone who knows what they are doing, particularly for teaching how to "scrum". This is the most dangerous part of the game. If it's done wrong it risks a broken neck. You are probably best starting with 7 aside rugby which has a 3 man scrum rather than the 8 men you see in the full 15 aside game. It's much less physical anyway and is probably the best place to start by a long way. Also just the right numbers for an inter patrol competition?

Thanks for the pointers chaps. Flag football sounds like the way forward, particularly as the girls may not appreciate the contact nature of the game.