Cambridgeskip

Roughly what Ian said. I deal with the scout secion (10-14 year olds) and while we would generally plan single sex sleeping arrangements if the ratios don't work we will put boys and girls in together. On an over night ferry to Holland we had 10 boys and 2 girls and cabins that held 12 so on that occassion it was mixed. Our last night of sumer camp they typically all just sleep under the stars so again it's all mixed up. So yes less uptight, but I wouldn't go as far as saying we ignore it.

I'm going to give the cub leader the benefit of the doubt here. The actions reported in that article are based on a quote from one clearly outraged parent. All media sources are quite capable of paraphrasing, missing out words and frankly just making quotes up. I'm going to assume it was all a mistake, they went for a hike and stumble across a nudist beach. If that's the case you just take it as one to learn from and when the dust settles one that everyone can have a chuckle about round the camp fire. "So there's this time we took the cubs for a hike and you'll never guess what happened....."

I'd be interested to see what exactly the people that have reported the parents are for are actually concerned about and have they actually sat down and thought about it? The reason I ask is that when I was a kid I was allowed to walk to school, to the park and to cubs on my own by the time I was 9 years old. Yes my mum worried but I'm 36 now and she still likes to check that I'm eating properly and have enough clean socks. That's what mums do! What I wasn't allowed to do though was walk to my grandmother's house, which was a lot closer than my school, or park or cub pack, on my own. The reason being I had to cross an extremely busy road, which didn't have any kind of pedestrian crossing on, to do so. My parents had concluded, quite reasonably, that I was at far more danger from traffic crossing a busy road than I was walking the mile or so to school. Have the adults who have complained actually sat down and properly thought through, what is the danger here? What is it reasonable for a kid of that age to take on? Or have they just thought "Danger danger danger!". I suspect the latter.

So I said I would comment further. Actually I'm going to chose not to. This is clearly a politically controversial issue and I am senior enough within the UK civil service that to publically comment either way would probably not be a wise move as I meant to remain impartial in a public setting. It was a great weekend away by the way. If any of you visit the UK I can recommend Newcastle as a wonderful city to visit

Actually about 1 year but I'll let you off

So things you have the right to do but maybe shouldn't. How about the police holding an anit terrorism exercise that involves a man with a gun outside the gates of a school. AND NOT BOTHERING TO TELL THE SCHOOL IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Parents-anger-gunman-Cambridge-school-gates/story-25861992-detail/story.html Yes. This actually happened. It happened in the catchment area for my scout group. It happened around 600 yards from my front door. Now bear in mind gun culture in the UK. We don't have one. I know precisely one person who owns anything other than an air gun. He is a farmer who keeps a shot gun to deal with foxes. That's it. You see someone with a gun and you call the police. That's the drill. Now what the article above doesn't tell you is not only was there no warning but the school happens to be one run by the Church of England (ie a Christian school) in what is a largely Muslim area of town. As levels of crass, insensitive, stupidity goes this reaches a whole new level of dumb. What the hell was going through the head of the person that made this decision? You may have gathered that I am rather angry about this.

Moving away from the detail of the case it's worth remembering that sometimes to fix something you have to allow it break first. If you keep muddling through then quite often nothing will be done. Step away. Let the troop fall over if necessary. When that happens things have an uncanny way of working themselves out, typically when someone steps into the breach and does it properly.

Tyke, while I've not seen the film I am aware of the story and of the events that it portrays. Remember that the film while telling a true story tells just one story. Remember that in the film itself the miners union was reluctant to accept the financial help simply because of who it is coming from and the potential fall out. The fact is that working class Britain has traditionally been, and in many places still is, surprisingly socially conservative and that is what UKIP is tapping into.

Just to update this. We've heard back from Labour and Green candidates and bother are signed up to come. Not heard from the others yet. To expand on what Tyke said. That is probably the traditional position but to be honest in recent years Labour have moved more towards the centre and the Lib Dems have moved more to the left to the point where there is little to distinguish between them. UKIP have traditionally drawn from the center right but in recent years have gained support from traditional labour voters disafected with the labour move to the centre. Traditionally while economically quite left wing Labour were socially quite conservative and UKIP have tapped into that with things like opposition to gay marriage.

Stosh, Possibly something for another time. On this occassion though we are specifically encouraging the scouts to engage in politics. We have a serious problem in the UK with the number of young adults that bother to vote. This link shows the turnout by age and constituency for the 2010 election http://www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout10.htm When it comes to local council elections I'd describe the even lower turnouts as close to catastrophic. Just 44% of 18-24 year olds,t ook the short amount of time it takes to take part in the democratic process. It's frankly scandalous. And I think that is part of the duty of movements like the Scouts and our friends in Girl Guides (who have similar program to us in terms of politics) to try and change that.

Thanks for the thoughts chaps. Just to clarify, we to are expected to be apolitical in that we should not, while wearing our scout hat, openly support or oppose any political party. However at a national level there is a big theme at the moment of getting young people to engage with politics. There is an annual parliamentary reception for scouts which some of ours have been to in the past (we invested one of them on the spot where Nelson Mandella addressed both Houses, she certainly remembered that one!), where they get to meet MPs including the Speaker of the House. There are other events across the country as well. We have invited all the declared candidates for our parliamentary seat so far who are from the big 5 political parties. There may be fringe candidates who declare nearer the time. We will probably invite them as well with the only exception being the nut jobs (eg British National Party, our very own white supremecist morons). In terms of the acoustics we actually added some sound absorbing panels not that long ago, Works a treat!

Not sure if this goes in this forum or issues and politics.... In May we have a General Election here in the UK. So following a PLs council and a leaders meeting this evening we've decided to try and run a "Question Time"* style night with the troop. We've emailed the candidates of the main political parties (Conservative, Green, Labour, Lib Dems, UKIP) for the parliamentary seat to come to scouts in March. Each to spend 3 mins explaining their policies to the troop and field questions. Just wondering, has anyone else ever tried anything similar? I know both politics and scouting are very different in the USA to over here. How did it go? Any advice? *Its a weekly TV show here, a rep from each of the main parties plus typically a journalist and someone like a comedian field questions from a studio audience on the issues of the day. Bit of a British instituion

It seems to me that the issue here is not the original incident (they were caught, they were disciplined etc) but the attitude afterwards. By being flippant about it afterwards they have been disrespectful towards leaders. By not showing up for key events they have failed to show leadership. By not coming regularly they have not been active members. Given that I would have no problem not awarding them their eagle. The other side of that coin though is that the threat of others as to what they might do if they are awarded it should NOT affect your decision at all. It's between you and the scouts.

A minute's silence is still used at matches on or close to Remembrance Sunday and also to mark the anniversary of the Hllsborough disaster but in recent years to mark events that should perhaps be more celebrated rather than remembered with sadness a minute's applause is often used instead. For example to mark the death of a great player who's life should be celebrated. On this occasion as well the truce was seen as something to celebrate hence the applause. I understand it was something that has been done in Italy for many years and was adopted in the UK over the last few years. Football fans a strange group of people

At a lot of football (soccer) matches over Christmas in the UK a minute's applause was held before kick off in memory of the truce a hundred years ago, A very touching moment.

Just thought I'd share this from GIlwell Park. Happy Christmas one and all from across the pond

Apologies for the use of the term "natives". I should have remembered that it has slightly more sensitive contatations your side of the Atlantic! Let's pretend I said "locals" instead? As for the Daily Mail.... not really National Enquirier. The Sun is more like that. ie more of a comic. No The Daily Mail is more like Fox News. Rabidly right wing and notorious for barely veiled racism, xenophobia, homophobia, islamophobia and sexism. An utterly appalling publication (in my opinion) that continues to sell by the millions for reasons I can't figure out. Probably their lowest point came a few years ago. Not far from Cambridge is the town of Ipswich. Not somewhere you're likely to have heard of. A medium sized maket town where nothing much ever happens. It hit the headlines when a serial killer started murdering prostitutes. He killed 5 of them in the space of a few weeks. The Mail published a piece by one of their more nortorious columnists Richard Littlejohn (he lives in Florida, he's all yours, I don't want him back in my country) that described 5 young women butally murdered as "No great loss" and "Hardly Mother Theresa".

I wouldn't take the daily mail seriously on anything. They spin what they want to tell the story they want. In this case that story is "things ain't want they used to be". Their best stunt recently was when they used words like "vile" and "sick" when Radio 4 broadcast extracts from a book that the mail had described as "brilliant" and mischievous" prior to it being associated with the BBC. Anyway according to the 2011 census 75% of the population had some form of religious belief. Religion has no doubt declined, particularly in the last 20 years, but it's far from terminal. Back to the topic, I'd advise you to get to understand firstly the different attitude to discussing religion that our American cousins have. They are far more open about it than we are in the uk where frankly we are pretty awkward about it. Secondly read up on the chartering system that BSA have. It will explain a lot about why change has been and will continue to be rather slow. Finally as I said above, take the time to take a look around and engage with folks on other topics. You will find the natives here (mostly) friendly and welcoming and certainly I have got some good ideas that I have applied in the UK. Feel free to be open about your opinions (I share yours on inclusivity and regulars will be aware of that) but remember that you are the internet equivalent of a guest in another country.

Hi Tyke, based on title and subject matter I am going to assume you are the same Tyke as on escouts? Likewise I'm the same CambridgeSkip! Anyway, I'd say to you stick around and look over some of the discussions, even if you have no comments to make. It's something I've done and I think I've learned quite a bit not just about American scouting but also American culture. In particular the sense of libertarianism that is much more prominent in the USA that it is in Western Europe. I share many of your views on inclusivity within scouting. Although I do think you have underestimated the levels of religious beliefs with in the UK!

Based on 30 million ish scouts in the world that works out to an average of 10 hours each per year. Given that some of those scouts will be very young cubs, beavers etc who are probably unable to put as many hours in and that average is probably a lot higher for those a bit older. Pretty impressive!

That's a real shame that you have had that experience. It's a problem that I've simply never had. At any one time in a troop of 35-40 we might have 2 or 3 scouts who need some assistance. I've never had anyone trying it on when they don't really need help and all of them have joined in with fundraising without even needing to be asked.

What is the culture like in the USA? Here in the UK it is pretty standard that in any letter or email to parents about a given camp we would include a line along the lines of "If the only reason your child cannot is tend is cost then please contact either one of the leaders or group treasurer in confidence. We have a limited amount of funds available to assist and can make alternative arrangements".

Are things different? Yes and no. Certainly an adult would be expected to tread with caution with any kind of physical contact and if in doubt you just wouldn't. But equally I've had kids (both boys and girls) throw their arms round me when moving onto explorers or at Christmas or at the end of a longer camp. I have put my arm round a couple of kids that were going through a particularly hard time. It's not something I would do on a regular basis and certainly don't go actively looking for it, that would be a bit creepy. Just on an occasion it is appropriate. I try not to be too paranoid. I do know adults though who would run a mile at the idea of course and that is down to them.