Cambridgeskip

I've always said that I'll jack it in when I stop enjoying it. As it is I still love what I do and I think the kids enjoy it as well so all seems well. It might help that I've had regular changes. 1997 - 2000 I was assistant cub leader at a group where I was a student in Durham, then I moved to Cambridge and 2000-2003 I was assistant cub leader here. 2003-2009 I was cub leader and since 2009 I've been scout leader. Maybe the time will come when I'll want to freshen it up and do another role? It's not come yet though. Like Stosh I prefer dealing with the kids. I've been offered various district and county roles and turned them all down. I reckon I could do them but why would I want an admin role when I could be lighting fires in the woods with the kids? Much more fun! I do wonder sometimes if I am selfish. Our district here is frankly a disaster zone that has never recovered from a massive bout of politics about 4 years ago. It needs somebody to fix it. I probably could fix it. I just don't feel like the aggravation it would entail. I've got a mile stone coming up. Back in 2006 when I was still running cubs our group started a beaver colony (6-8 year olds), one of those beavers moved up to cubs and around the time I switched to scouts moved up with me. She is now a young leader with me and will turn 18 in September and is planning on becoming an ASL. She's also applying to go to university in Durham! I feel quite good about all of that

Thanks Krampus, that would be really kind of you. It's an event that each year leaves me glowing with pride. Every year I'm left amazed at just how hard some of the kids will push themselves. One year I had to force on our younger scouts to drop out and get a support car to pick her up. She was exhausted, limping and soaked to the skin. For her own safety I got her picked up with about 2 KM to go. Such was her determination to carry on she didn't speak to me for week afterwards!

Morning all A shameless plug on behalf of my scouts. Our annual over night charity trek, The Sun Run, has just been launched. This year in aid of Cancer Research UK, a charity the scouts chose for themselves. It's 22KM over night, west to east, starting at sun set, aiming to get to the finish line by sun rise. If any of you have a few dollars to spare then please throw it our direction https://www.justgiving.com/12th-Cambridge-Scouts1 Thanks in advance! Anna, Marina, Martha, Dan P, Felix, Jonnie, Izzy, Jenny, Eleanor H, Jude, Laura, Biba, Alex, Adam, Eleanor V, Katy, Mishcha, Jake, Raph, Oskar, Henry, Lukka, Max, Dan W, Harry, Kitty, Lucas, Rui

My prayers are with you, your scouts and the family of the young man who passed away. I hope that you can all eventually find peace.

I don't know how you found it getting a politician to speak to the scouts but I've seen it happen twice. On both occasions I was thoroughly impressed with how engaging and intelligent politicians of all parties can be when you get them away from the TV cameras and talking on a one to one or one to a small group basis. A couple of years ago I got to take a small group to the annual scout reception at Parliament and last year we invited the candidates for the cambridge constituency at the general election for a hustings night. On both occasions I was very impressed, even with the candidate for UKIP, the one party I could simply never see myself voting for. Such a pity they can't behave like that in parliament or any other time the TV cameras on them when I can be equally as unimpressed with all of them.

The thing is that jamborees are not intended to be traditional scout led out doors programs or back country adventure and solitude. Instead they are there to offer something entirely different. It's much more about meeting new people from new places and experiencing something entirely different from the normal program My group was lucky enough to have 5 explorers go to the world jamboree in Japan last year. All of them came back with silly grins on their faces and completely knocked over by the whole thing. One of them is off to Norway this summer to stay with friends she met in Japan. There's nothing quite like it!

I don't know how international your national jamborees get but if you do get a lot of contingents I'd say go for it! I took a mixed unit of scouts and explorers from my district here in the UK to the European Jamboree in 2005. It was frankly a life changing experience. Our unit were camped next to a Polish unit one side, who had Israelis the other side of them and Italians the other side with Irish the other side of them. Across the track from us we had Dutch, Swiss, Portuguese and Ugandan units. Also on our sub camp we have Norway, France, Mexico, South Korea and others I've forgotten. That melting pot of cultures and kids, many of who can't speak each other's language but are nevertheless forced to cooperate is like nothing else. Go for it!

Sounds like there are similar problems both sides of the Atlantic! Thankfully none of the issues discovered later than they should have been have resulted in a trip to hospital. Fingers crossed that it will never happen but you never know. I should add that it's by no means all parents. I recently had a new scout start with cystic fibrosis. His parents could not have been more helpful in terms of briefing me on his needs. If only everyone was that helpful!

I don't know what it's like your side of the pond but here parents often need considerable prompting to tell you there are special needs. I make a point of asking the parents of every new recruit, "is there anything else I need to know?" and go on to explain that can mean anything from peanut allergies to dyslexia to aspergers to sleep walking to claustrophobia. I've lost count of the number where they say no and then..... the classic was the peanut allergy I didn't know about till the scout told me they'd left their eppi pen at home. even worse was the parent of a cub who sent their cub to camp with sun screen "because it was on the kit list" even though he was allergic to it. Yes. That actually happened.

To be clear, I didn't kick them ( it was one boy and one girl by the way!) out. In specific occasions I sent them both home, which is a big difference. It's the short sharp shock which, on vanishingly rare occasions, is what is needed to demonstrate that no, you are not going to get your way here. The up shot on both occasions was that they left of their own volition.. They left not because of being sent home as such but because of what it represented, that the movement was bigger than they were and they were not going to be allowed to have their own way if it meant that they disrupted it for others. There was something that was bigger than they were. On that point of how can you kick someone out who's heart isn't in it? Seems to me quite easily if I was ever forced to. Thankfully I never have had to. If they are physically there though then yes, in all practicalities, you can remove them if necessary.

@@Stosh It's not about the skills or otherwise to handle situations like autism or ADHD. To be blunt, been there done that. Over twenty years I've seen most forms of difficulty. In the vast majority of occasions with the right effort and program and support you can get the best out of even the most difficult. Scouting has that bit of magic to do that! The stories I could tell of that sort vastly out number those where I couldn't do anything. Those two scouts who I sent home had one thing in common. They didn't want to be scouts. They came because their friends were there. They were there to hang around with them. Beyond that there was nothing that scouting was offering that they wanted. The outdoors. The patrol system. Service to others. None of those fundamentals held any interest for either of them.

We're not generally known for our outrageous dress sense! Including me. My dress sense is generally pretty conservative. In the hills though it's different. I don't spend as much time in the Scottish Highlands as I would like but I do enough that my outdoors clothing is chosen incase things go horribly wrong. Selfie taken in the Cairngorms attached as a demo In all seriousness there was a particularly nasty accident on Ben Nevis (our highest mountain) over the winter. A young couple out climbing were avallanched. Their bodies weren't found for weeks. If it's ever me that it happens to I fully intend that my clothing will help them find me,

@@Stosh I fear my comments may have been taken the wrong way here. I am not advocating sending a scout home as a run of the mill, standard reaction for someone who has behaved badly. It is very much a “nuclear option†used in exceptional circumstances. In 20 years as a scouter I have been forced to use it in on just 4 occasions. Twice with cubs* and twice with scouts. On each occasion my own moral has taken a battering. The two scouts were both part of a gang of 5. When I took over my current troop in 2009 I inherited a discipline problem from the previous SL. It sounds almost identical to the OP. This gang were rude to scouts and adults alike, constant back chat, constant attempts to intimidate. I tried every trick in the book to get them interested and engaging. They all failed. Eventually I laid down the law. 3 of them pulled their socks up because, basically, they liked scouts and realised it was time to choose it or lose it. The other two eventually got sent home. One was almost immediately afterward for calling me stupid in front of the whole troop. The other one was nearly a year later when she slipped back into her old ways after an initial improvement. She sat on the ground during a night hike and refused to move when she didn’t get her own way on something. I say sent home. I tried to get her parents on the phone but they didn’t pick up. Both came back for a while then later on quit. It wasn’t something I wanted to do, or enjoyed at all. In fact I felt like a failure on both occasions. Those incidents were (I think) both in winter 2009/10. I’ve not had to do it since or even threaten to do it. If I am ever pushed again though, if I ever have scouts ruining things either for the other scouts or the adult volunteers on my team I won’t hesitate to do so again. *The two cubs incidents were very different. Both for out of character one off incidents where again I was left with no choice.

I'd always go with bright colours when I'm in the mountains. While I know what I'm doing I have no intention of ever falling into the trap of thinking "it could never happen to me". If Mountain Rescue do ever need to come and find me I fully intend that they can see me and I don't blend into the Scottish mountainside. If being able to see me from 2 miles away interrupts anyone's solitude then sorry but tough....

This is a tricky one without having greater knowledge of what is going on and for how long. Fact is that we have all, no matter how experienced we are, had “that†evening or “that†camp where it was a nightmare. The good news is that these are nearly always one off events where a perfect storm of circumstances come together. We’ve all been there. If that is the case then a discussion with the SM or if you are the SM your ASMs as to what went wrong and how to make sure it doesn’t again is a great start. But….. my instinct from what you’ve said is that probably isn’t the case. It sounds like you have a small group of trouble makers. If that is the case then things are rather different. Those individuals need to come up against a brick wall and that brick wall is the SM. I’d suggest they get hauled in for a first, last and only warning. They are told what they’ve done isn’t acceptable and if it continues then there will be consequences. It could mean missing a camp or outing. It could mean losing their position as PL or APL. Ultimately it means parents being phoned and them being asked to collect him. Also think about how you present it. I am cursed with an absolute fog horn of a voice. So when a kid gets a dressing down from me I make a point of speaking very quietly indeed. Don’t copy me, just find your personal way of emphasising the point. And then make sure it happens. Do NOT let them call your bluff. If you say you will do it, then do it. And make sure the rest of the troop knows you have done it. You won’t have to do it very often, indeed maybe never again, once they realise you are serious. It’s been about 6 years since I last sent a scout home. That time the troop went from their normal noisy but good natured selves to dead silent for the rest of the evening. The message was received very loudly.

So I thought I’d pick some brains of semi outsiders on what is effectively the UK “advancement†process which is somewhat different to yours. But a fresh pair of eyes is exactly what I’m after…. First a bit of background. Our systems works by each age group having a small number of “challenge†badges, which make up the core of the pogram and a larger number of “activity†badges. Within each age group there is then a Chief Scout’s award which, for beavers, cubs and scouts is gained by earning all the challenge badges and selection of activity badges of the scout’s choice. So; Beaver Scouts, 6-8 year olds – Chief Scout’s Bronze Cub Scouts, 8-10 year olds – Chief Scout’s Silver Scouts, 10-14 year olds – Chief Scout’s Gold Explorer Scouts, 14-18, and Network Scouts, 18-25, Chief Scouts Diamond, Chief Scout’s Platinum and Queen’s Scout (Broadly equivalent to your Eagle Scout). So far so good. Most of the challenge badges, and activity badges (broadly equivalent to what you would call a merit badge) are age range specific and geared to be attainable but stretching to young people of that age. And that’s fine. Also worth remembering that the activity badge requirements are a very recent addition and it was just about the challenge badges until about 8 months ago. However…. There are also “staged†activity badges where, theoretically at least, any stage can be earned by any youth member in any age range. The reality is of course a little different. For example First Aid stage 1 is clearly aimed at Beavers with requirements being things like how to make an emergency phone call and how to treat a cut finger. Certainly I have never seen first aid training for the scout age range geared for anything less than stage 3, which includes major bleeds, CPR and mouth to mouth. I run scouts, 10-14 year olds so it’s 9 Challenge Badges and any 6 activity badges. So we are now in a situation where someone that comes straight into scouts without having been a beaver or a cub can, by the strict wording of the requirements, say “I can demonstrate that I can do everything in first aid stage 1, can I have the badge as one of my 6 towards my Gold awardâ€. By age 10 I would hope full well they could make a 999 call and put a plaster on a cut finger! Similarly we have nights away badges which you earn as you rack up nights away on camp. They are awarded at 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 15. 20. 35. 50, 75, 100 then every 25 after. Again strictly they all count towards CSG. Similar system for number of hikes. So a kid that comes straight into scouts goes on one weekend camp and hey presto! has earned 2 activity badges towards CSG. Whereas the kid that went through beavers and cubs could arrive with 20 nights away and need to rack up 30 nights to get his or her 35 and 50. It seems rather unfair! The sensible and pragmatic part of me is considering a policy of minimum requirements for the troop. Eg stage 1 of any staged award doesn’t count and nights or hikes below 5 or maybe 10 don’t count, or at least asking the PLCs to think about it. I just wondered what an outsider looking in thought?

Look after yourself, unless you are warm, dry, well fed and well rested you'll struggle to look after the scouts.

I kind of agree with SSScout here. It might be because I'm part of a particularly old troop (105 years and still going!), but I think that each new generation should be encouraged to be part of what is an ongoing story and to try and leave some kind of mark behind, some kind of marker that the generation that follows them can see and understand that there were those who came before them and that there will be those who come along after them. When I was a venture scout the unit had a mascot, a small (about 3 feet high) totem pole called Isaiah (so called because one eye was higher than the other!) that had had various additions put on it. My generation made it a headdress. I'd like to think that a generation following us added something else to it and the story has continued.

As it happens.... my lot are meeting up with the GSA group from RAF Alconbury on Saturday. They seem quite friendly and no issue with men from them!

Funny you should say that, and entirely off topic but thinking of RSMs..... funniest thing that I think ever happened to me as a scout. So back in the day I got my Queen's Scout Award, the equivalent of your Eagle. When you get it one thing that happens is that you are invited to take part in St George's Day Parade at Windsor Castle. It's a fantastic day and part of it involves being taught to march, to a fashion, and doing the teaching is whichever guards regiment from the army (ie the ones wearing the red tunics and bear skin hats) that happens to be doing the ceremonial duties at the castle at the time, each section gets a volunteer. Some people get an 18 year old fresh out basic training. Some people got an officer. I got the RSM of the Irish Guards himself. Quite simply the scariest man I have ever met. He was built like the proverbial brick out house and when some off duty soldiers decided to have a bit of a laugh at our expense out the barracks window he only had to glance at them and they ran away. His dress was immaculate. You could have cut your finger on the crease down his trousers and combed your hair looking into his shoes. Anyway, he started to get us marching and I was frankly useless at marching (see above about music, I have no sense of timing or rhythm at all), particularly at marking time on the spot. He called me to the front and invited me to tell him my name. I told him at which point he informed me, in the loudest voice I've ever heard "I did not ask for your ****ing first name. Now what's your name?" I told him my second name. At which point in a much quieter voice he informed me that I marched like a Thunderbird! At which point 20 other fellow Queens Scouts (including me) nearly suffocated laughing. Fantastic day that I'll always remember.

Is it that surprising? I don't have children of my own (yet), when I hopefully do and they are old enough to start deciding what extra curricular stuff they do there will be things I will know something about (scouting, football) but there will be others where I will be clueless. Music for example. I am one of the least musical people I know. Should my child join a band or an orchestra I will need to be guided every step of the way in terms of what they need to do and what the orchestra or the like need from me and what they specifically don't want me to do. I don't see that scouting is any different. If a kid signs up and their parents have never done it before then yes, they will need pointing in the right direction. Remember, it's only easy if you know the answer!

I think we're talking at cross purposes.... by "harsh" I meant not wanting the parent in question involved. Not being fully up to speed with how the troop runs the first time he drops his son on camp doesn't stop him being a potentially useful body.

That is awesome! Have just emailed the link to my PLs......

Stosh I think you might be being a little harsh here! As I said at the start, I was just after the thoughts of people who had had to tell a parent to back off. It’s a topic I’ve seen come up here far more often here than over on escouts hence the picking of brains. I think you need to bear in mind though that our age ranges differ. I run 10-14 year old scouts. I don’t have 16 year old PLs to do the leading and that means that while, like you, we get the scouts to do it for themselves whenever possible the age range does mean that my level of adult intervention is probably higher than what you are used to and keeping a decent number of adults involved is far more necessary. As to whether this individual might be the right type of adult I don’t think one attempt to help his son with a tent in the rain dismisses him. Clearly he knows what he’s doing in terms of the technical side, he may just need to learn how to back off. Not knowing it all at the start doesn’t mean you can’t do it. We’ve all been there. In 2009 I switched from running cubs to running scouts. It’s a very different experience and I took a few months to learn to take my hands off and let the scouts get on with it. I made my mistakes and learned from them. He may be no different. As it happens our cubs are currently the age group looking for adults and I may just guide him in that direction….

Now you see you've kind of understood! If I'd wanted advice on being subtle I'd have asked over at escouts I came over hear to get advice on being a bit more blunt