Armymutt

I have a similar situation, but am in an even worse position to help. It's very frustrating. The Scout turns 18 in mid-June. I talked to him for about 20 minutes at a meeting in early March. He still has to do Personal Management and Personal Fitness. He had time, but seemed disheartened. I told him that it will be a difficult journey, but well worth the sense of accomplishment in the end. He kept saying that there are other things to put on a college application. I tried to discourage that point of view, but for some reason, these kids are fixated on that. The other adults have been trying to help as best they can. I didn't get much of an update this past weekend on our camp out. It's rough caring for these kids. I try not to fall back on my veterinarian survival mantra of "you can't care more than the client" because they are kids.

That last bit might be a way, if it is true. His/her last child left for college 3 years ago.

That's the whole point. No one else can take over as the Chapter Advisor while he/she won't relinquish the reigns. That's why he/she needs to be nudged out. I tried that as the ceremonies advisor, but was always stifled with the "youth lead" mantra. That's my goal if I can get the power shifting away from the stagnant program and on a focused project that provides service to Scouting. There are so many service opportunities at our local camp.

I thought about posting this in the OA section, but the principles apply in all areas of the program. Our Chapter has an adult volunteer who has been there a long time. He/she is no longer an advisor at the chapter level, and I believe is at the Lodge level. However, he/she has the keys to the meeting location, being a member of that location. I have been forced to be on the peripheral of the chapter due to work. I'm still in the chats, so I see what they are, and more importantly, aren't doing. They are still doing EC meetings remotely, which were mostly long periods of silence and black screens when I was actively involved. The chapter meetings seem to be little different than an average teenager outing with friends - bowling, climbing, and skating seem to be the major things. The adult in question claims to wan to be in a different position, but won't relinquish influence. Other adults have tried to step in, but were sidelined by this individual. I have dealt with this same person in my pack. He/she was the COR, but was committee chair and CM at some point in the past. He/she was routinely interfering. Probably well-meaning, but very wrong and causing confusion among parents. He/she didn't attend committee meetings for months and then sent out emails directing the opposite action of what was agreed on. Anyway, I was able to talk to a couple of Scouts this weekend from a troop that used to make up the largest percentage of the chapter. They said it just wasn't fun or exciting. I mentioned my idea for having the OA develop and run a district Pioneer Derby. They seemed receptive, but raised the issue of what I'm calling inertia. We have adults with pretty strong personalities, but they reign them in when dealing with other adults. However, I'm seeing the inertia of one adult causing the destruction of the chapter. While I hate to call it a coup, I think that's what it's going to take. Anyone have a different idea than getting the youth to ask an adult advisor to find another place to be on meeting nights?

Looking for ideas on rain gear for my new Scout. He's currently sub-5 feet, but I anticipate him hitting 6 feet before he's out of Scouts. In the early 90s, we bought East German ponchos at the British surplus stores and used those almost exclusively. They worked well for the English and Welsh climates we Scouted in and our parents didn't have to spend money every year or so. I was thinking of getting him a USGI poncho. Frogg Toggs are about worthless, so I'd like to stay away from them.

I have all of my certificate cards. My sash is hanging on my wall. It's fun to look at them and think back. The cards are almost more valuable to me because they have the names of my Scoutmasters and adds to the memories.

We held our AOL crossover this weekend. No reason to wait unto Feb with an 11 y/o and two 10 y/o who finished 4th grade in June. Two of them went to a troop that is going to a merit badge weekend in January. I need a little refresher/update on the merit badge process. We never used blue cards in my day. I think the Scout Handbook was our tracker for the Eagle required badges and we didn't really do others that couldn't be completed in a day. With a district the size of England (and perhaps Iceland?) and no internet, merit badge counselors were hard to come by, even if we could figure out the requirements or notice that they existed. If a Scout is working on a merit badge that can't be completed during an event, how does the progress get tracked, and by whom? I was a little concerned initially by his lack of interest in reading the Scout Handbook a couple months ago. After the crossover and on Sunday morning, he was in it, reading through the requirements for the Scout rank and making sure he knew the answers to everything. Now the trick is to kindle that spark and build the fire.

I think it should be up to the unit. All Scouting is local. Forcing coed situations on children who are not ready for such a thing can drive them out of the program. Let boys be boy and girls be girls. They already have to change their behavior at school to avoid some social faux pas that will follow them for years. Scouting should be an escape from that society, not an extension of it. Of course, with the increase of classroom requirements, maybe Scouting is destined to simply be school part 2.

Yes, and they are all electives. There is no requirement to do it, unlike the previous version of the Bear rank.

I've been digging in even further and the changes make little sense, at least at the Bear level. One can complete Cub Scouts without ever touching a knife. However, one must figure out a way to raise a flag on a flag pole. Seems to me that it's far easier and simpler to pick up a knife at Walmart than it is to purchase and install a flag pole. Now I have to run around and beg some organization to let me use their flag pole or figure out something else. For me, the simplest solution will be to last some sticks together, but most parents don't have the pioneering knowledge to do that.

I could have sworn I heard of a video or transcript of Green Bar Bill saying the Scout Law with further details for each point. I'm coming up short on Google. I've seen some explanation pages, but I thought there was one he did. Any help?

Excluding registered Scouts from events bigger than the unit level because they aren't like you?

The emphasis on camping and Arrowmen being "campers" has been curtailed. What's funny is that our council has been asking for units to submit ideas on where to go camping. Like we don't have an organization that used to have that as a mission.

I have the 1992 OA Handbook and a modern one with no date. In 1992, the Purpose of the Order was "To recognize those campers - Scouts and Scouters - who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives and by such recognition cause other campers to conduct themselves in such manner as to warrant recognition. To develop and maintain camping traditions and spirit. To promote Scout camping, which reaches its greatest effectiveness as a part of the unit's camping program... To crystallize the Scout habit of helpfulness into a life purpose of leadership in cheerful service to others." Today: "Recognize those who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives and by such recognition cause others to conduct themselves in such manner as to warrant recognition. Promote camping, responsible outdoor adventure, and environmental stewardship as essential components of every Scout's experience, in the unit, year-round, and in summer camp. Develop leaders with the willingness, character, spirit, and ability to advance the activities of their units, our Brotherhood, Scouting, and ultimately our nation. Crystallize the Scout habit of helpfulness into a life purpose of leadership in cheerful service to others." Seems like camping has been severely downgraded in importance and focus for the Order. I've yet to learn how decreasing the number of camping nights by 20% makes one a better candidate for the Order.

We've been told for many years that diversity is out strength. Now we have various groups wanting to have their own exclusive events and we are told that "Affinity outings strengthen Scouts and Scouters ties to Scouting. They bring us together, they don't divide." by our Council President. So which is it? The Boy Scouts was, arguably, an affinity group. I'm all for groups hosting Scouting events, but I believe that we are strengthened when all Scouts are invited to participate. Otherwise, where is the learning? If you're not inviting all Scouts, exactly how are these events bringing us together?

Iteration is the number of events occurring of the same type. Normally one reviews what happens and make changes for the next event with an eye toward improving. I think you are creating a strawman. The event doesn't address any of the concerns you bring up. Frankly, it create more friction by identifying girls as special members rather than equal members. If this was something like the Catholic Camporee in that it is hosted by the Catholic Committee on Scouting and the Knights of Columbus are cooking a dinner and a breakfast for the participants, but it is open to all Scouts, then I would have no issue. If the girl troops want to host a camporee for all the Scouts in the council and staff the stations, cool, but I'm 90% sure that is not what is happening here.

This is at least the third or fourth iteration. There are boy troops younger than this and there are no special camporees being offered for them. We're trying to stand up troops in areas devoid of scouting with leaders who have no scouting experience. There are no special camporees for them. There are ample opportunities for training available for both youth and adults. I don't know of too many girl troops that don't have a boy troop in the same CO. I do know of boy troops that have a Tenderfoot for an SPL. Those kids are pretty much left to fend for themselves in a program that was designed to help them escape the poverty of the cities. If anyone needs special events, it's those kids, not the girl troops who can simply walk across the hall and ask an older Scout in a boy troop.

How do you figure that only aiming to increasing female membership is acceptable? I also don't see any mention of this as a recruiting event. It's a camporee. Those are for active Scouts, not the general public. Is demographic-based Scouting events where we really want to go? That seems to fly in the face of universal brotherhood and becomes an "othering" type of program.

I'm curious how this inclusiveness jives with the annual girl only camporee. Doesn't sound inclusive to me. https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=844830384336661&set=a.554791236673912

Took a glance at SB tonight. One of the requirements for the Bear Bobcat adventure is "Learn about the denner position and responsibilities." That will be interesting with 2 kids. I also noticed that the youth protection part that used to be just part of the rank requirements is now one of the required adventures. Bears no longer have to learn about knife safety or how to tie knots. The only outdoor activity required is a 1-mile hike. There is no requirement to observe nature during this hike. You could probably do it on a track. Oh, and there's exciting stuff like reviewing your medical record and "Learn about the mission of any non-profit. Find out how they fund their activities and how volunteers are used to help." That just screams 3rd grader fun. No more outings, no need to interact with the community. Everything could be done in a classroom in 8 weeks. This is definitely going to bring in hordes of kids.

Did the addition of girls actually improve numbers? The chart doesn't indicate that. The various changes (and I wouldn't call BLM support and the LDS departure an "outside change") haven't brought in the numbers that we were told they would. The numbers in the Boy Scout program didn't change all that much from 1979 to 2019. Even with COVID, if the changes were to have had the desired effect, I would expect the bars for Boy Scouts to have remained the same, not 75% of the previous numbers. COVID has been over for more than a year and the numbers have dropped even more. Tells me that inclusivity isn't the problem.

Random thought this morning, what happens when people realize that Tenderfoot is a derogatory name for a beginner and people get upset at being called a "Second Class Scout"? Is that suddenly where BSA/SA will put its foot down? Seems kind of arbitrary. If you can change the name of the organization, why can't you change the names of the ranks? On top of that, why have ranks? The rest of WOSM doesn't have ranks, except for the top one in each program. How inclusive is it to say you can't be a certain rank if you haven't spent this certain length of time as the previous rank?

That right there is what I have noticed. I suppose it was to make it easy for DLs as most did not want to be DLs. We are in a drop off society and when I tell a parent that they will have to be the DL if their kid is going to join, they either leave or do it begrudgingly. By the time they get to Webelos and AOL, even the somewhat motivated parent starts phoning it in. What could be some really cool adventures turn into classroom stuff. My son's den cooked spaghetti in the church kitchen for Cast Iron Chef. I don't think they did much focus on budget and certainly didn't go shopping. My son is bored and I'm frustrated because there is little I can do to help. Making my daughter's experience better is one of the few drivers behind my decision making process in favor of continuing in the organization. I'll be home by then and, if the new pack is willing, I can be the Webelos DL and make things awesome. The kids will be close to Tenderfoot in outdoor skills by the time I'm done.

I've noticed that the quality of the OA has gone down. It's become more of the BSA party society. My youth experience was only at the chapter level, the chapter covering all of the UK, Iceland, and Norway. We held our own Ordeal and Brotherhood ceremonies. I remember the entire chapter essentially did the Ordeal with the candidates. Some conducted OA business, but the other remaining few were out there working. In the evening, everyone was present for the ceremonies. I think it officially has changed form the honor society to the service society, but every rank requires some sort of service hours. I'm not sure how the kids will find that to be a draw. It's no longer anything special until you reach Vigil.

Your mention of a lack of adults wanting to be in the outdoors reminded me of a post I saw on an OA FB page. A guy went through Ordeal and described it as the toughest thing he had ever done. I was rather shocked. He looks to be about mid-30s. I went through Ordeal at 17 and found it to be easier than a day at Philmont. Frankly, the Ordeal these days is easier than the Lodge induction at my old Catholic camp in southern Illinois. I think it was based on the OA when the camp opened in the 60s and was never really updated.