Armymutt

Cherokee Scout Reservation in NC has a provisional troop. My son enjoyed the merit badges there. They run a great camp, they spend a lot of money on quality food, and have some good evening activities.

Is ScouterStan a secret member here?

My visit to Council went well. I kind of cornered the program director while waiting to talk to the SE. What he told me made me feel better. He understand the situation far clearer than I thought he did. I told I was concerned because I hadn't had a response to my email from Saturday morning. He apologized and said they should have contacted me. They are waiting for instructions from higher up the chain - outside of Council. The Camping Program Exec told me that her impression was that there is a group of kids who get some sort of pleasure from messing around with 11 y/os who were minding their business. This was completely unprompted. In other news, looks like I'm going to be teaching, or helping teach, IOLS at summer camp. Looking forward to that!

It didn't go to the new troop - it's in a different district. We live on the edge of our district. It's a 30 minute drive to the new troop, but it's also a 30 minute drive to the kids' school, so no biggie for me. I'm tempted to email everyone who was on the message, but I'm going to wait and see how the SE meeting goes tomorrow. I know the dad who I was talking to that night was asked to write another statement out for council this evening.

I wasn't planning on issuing an ultimatum. It's more of a flow chart in my head. My ultimate goal is to protect Scouts from a 53 y/o person who is not in complete control of his emotions. If the SE does the right thing and bans him, cool. If not, then that leaves me no other recourse but to take it outside of Scouting. I'd rather not draw negative attention from outsiders, but we have to do the right thing or we're not much different than we were when we got into the YP mess.

Well, it looks like they want to step things up a notch. We attended another troop's meeting last night. My son loved it. The SM/ASMs don't run things because the SPL is competent and doesn't spend the meeting playing around and picking on little kids. I submitted the transfer from the old troop to the new troop before we left the meeting. This evening, I got an email from the old troop saying my son was being removed for behavior issues. It was also sent to the District committee members, most of whom are my friends. I'm meeting with the Council SE tomorrow. Right now, I'm on the "ban that SM from all positions within the Council or I file charges with the sheriff's department" wagon. Too extreme? The troop could have quietly accepted our departure on Saturday morning. Instead, they decided to broadcast this across the District. I'm going to Round Table tomorrow night with the new unit's numbers on my uniform. That is sure to get some questions, especially since people saw me with the old numbers on Friday night. I have no problem telling them the truth of what happened.

Ok, I can't think of a single valid, Scouting reason why... Seriously though, I'm struggling with what to do. I do not want to see this guy at a Scouting event in the future and definitely don't want him around my kids. There are only two ways that happens. One stays within Scouting America, the other makes the incident a matter of public record. I immediately notified the council Director of Outdoor Programs and the Program Manager, as they were there that night. I'm surprised I haven't heard back from anyone. I'm going to email the SE tomorrow and ask to talk on Wed. I'm hoping my son likes this new unit tonight and I'm up in Raleigh to buy new numbers. I talked to the one dad who covered the knots for me and he said the Director was out there the next day collecting statements. The fact that no one has contacted me is frustrating.

You're correct. I didn't realize it had become as bad as it is. The level of bullying really stepped on with this one. I can't think of a single reason for a group of teenagers to go into a tent and start picking on 2 11 y/os. The more I think about it, if an actual death threat was communicated, wouldn't they have lead with that one rather than "he spit on me"? So either the death threat wasn't enough to make a reasonable person fear for their life, or it didn't happen. The only witnesses just so happen to be the kids who initiated the conflict. Under NC General Statutes, the SM's statement does constitute a misdemeanor and all of the elements were met. I realize it is just now Monday, but it's been radio silence from council and the COR. Seems to me that an actual crime committed in front of several witnesses on council property would initiate some major damage control procedures. I'm not sure that unit has much life left. The guy I was talking to at the time is one of two families that came from the pack. He talked to the other one. He said they are going to stick around for summer camp, understandable, and "re-evaluate". The kid that we brought into the troop a couple months ago will be finding another troop immediately. His grandfather is another active adult who didn't grow up in the US, so he's sitting back and watching for now, but is active when it comes to adult operations in camp. I'm due to have a conversation with two other Scouts and their mom who were actively recruited by the SM to bring a dose of maturity into the troop. They are both Eagles and 17.5. One was thinking about running for SPL just to try to get things on track. The other one woke up Saturday to find we were gone and texted his mom because he was concerned.

I was dismayed to see this when I came back after my hiatus. I kinda figured merit badge factory summer camps were a gimme anyway. How else do you fit in some of these MBs in a single day? Apparently there have been complaints about leaders who make Scouts do the requirements as written in the book/online. Parents don't want their kids to learn stuff. They just want the paper so the kid feels good. All that learning and testing stuff is a distraction to their real purpose. Let's skip that and get right to the recognition. I don't mind troops that focus on merit badges, but as a driver of the program experience, not a block checking exercise. I'm all for doing canoeing merit badge, but let's utilize it as a blueprint for meetings and a monthly camping trip. Same with Wilderness Survival. Pretty much every merit badge has a preparatory phase, and execution phase, and a closing phase. Some are mixed in a bit, but it's easy to tease them out.

Well, last night went poorly. There was a squabble between some teenage Scouts and my 11 y/o son. The teenagers claim he spit on them, despite being on methylphenidate, which dries up his mouth. Apparently, he and another 11 y/o were hanging out in one of the permanent tents, talking, dancing, and doing 11 y/o things. One of the teenagers forced his way in. They tried to push him back out. Everything escalated until there were allegations of spitting, pushing, and a death threat from my kid. Scoutmaster declared that he was calling the police because he had enough evidence to do so and stormed off. A bit later, two folks from the council show up. They had a conversation for about 45 minutes. Called me over and we all agreed to move to the admin building to get out of the rain and talk to everyone there. My son and his buddy went first, separately. His dad was also present. The two 11 y/os essentially told the same story of the events. We departed and headed back to camp while the SM and another leader stayed with the other boys. The council guy told me that we'd have to have a discussion back at camp as leader to determine the next step. We got back to camp and sent the little boys to bed. We stayed in the shelter and talked a bit. I told him that no matter what happened, we were leaving the troop soon. He tried to convince me to stay, pointing out that the SM only had 6 month before his son made Eagle and they all departed. SM came back with the other leader. He recommended going to bed, but the other dad said that we are already up, so let's discuss it now. SM say, fine, you need to take your kid home in the morning. No discussion, nada. I objected and he said he made a death threat, so he has to go. I told him we would depart tonight because there's no point in sleeping in the rain. He left the shelter. The problem is, I had volunteered to run the knot station for the camporee. I asked the other dad if he could do it, and started covering the knots and how the station would run. We then hear the SM yell out of the darkness "Armymutt, are you f****** talking s*** about me?" He came closer. "I will f****** end you!" He entered the shelter. "That's a threat of physical violence against you, if that isn't clear!" He then stormed off, leaving the three of us in shock. Both of the other two dads in the shelter yelled to him that I was explaining how the knot station would run, but he ignored them. I told the dad I was talking to earlier that this is what is causing me to leave. He said, "I understand now." I woke my son up and told him to pack and that we were leaving the troop. He said, "Thank you." That kind of broke my heart a bit. I got my stuff in my car and took my staff t-shirt over to the guy replacing me. As I was walking back to pack my son, the SM came over and tried to apologize. I told him that he did not have a Scout troop. They spend the meeting playing around and then go play a game. They are a bunch of bullies who found an easy target in an autistic 11 y/o and get their jollies from setting him off and then reporting him. I then finished helping my son get his stuff in the car and got home at 3AM. To me, regardless of what went on between the Scouts, it should have been handled internally. This is a squabble between kids, not some major crime scene. I've noticed a pattern of over reaction to little issues between the SM and the CC, his wife. Everything requires documentation and a report to council. They are constantly having people down to investigate something - usually my kid. He said they have had lots of complaint from parents about me. They can't say specifically what those complaints are, and the other Scouters in the troop have the same reaction when I told them - "For what? Sitting down with Scouts to help them work on advancement?" What really gets me is that he demanded my kid go home for the same thing he did 5 minutes later, and at a much louder and more forceful volume and tone. I have notified the folks from the council that we talked to last night. I already had a transition plan in place to a troop I previously visited to see if our troop was normal, and I like their SM team. I wanted to hold out until summer camp was over because I don't want to abandon my son's friend that we invited to the troop. The new troop is 30 minutes north of us and they live 20 minutes south of us. Having them switch there isn't going to work. It became clear to me just how toxic this troop was getting when they told a mom that they wouldn't approve anything thing to do with getting Eagle for her son. He's the youngest of a group that recently aged out and lost his motivation. I've known him for years through Cub Scout Day Camp as a Scout volunteer and consider him to be a good kid. He's just been getting in a bit of trouble lately, overwhelmed with parents going through a divorce. That'll be another thread, but I'm working on creating a Venturing Crew to allow him and his buddies to continue Scouting together with more adventure and a focus on life skills adults need, and for him to finish Eagle. At this point, I don't know what my next move is. Do I contact the COR? My son has about $800 in his Scout account that I would like to use for summer camp elsewhere. I know those funds actually belong to the CO, etc, etc. However, given the conditions in which our departure was necessitated and the fact that my son does not feel safe in that troop, I don't know that it would be out of line to request those funds be transferred to the new troop. Who else should I contact about a SM making threats of physical harm to an ASM? Technically, it's a criminal offense, but I'm not one to call the police on something like that. I just don't want some information operation getting launched against me or my son. The troop has already changed SB to make me Unit Scouter Reserve.

Well, since I was tagged, I'll talk about what I know. First off, I'm retired as of Halloween 2025. My only connection to the military is my ID card and my daughter's Pack. I will say that the military, at least the Army, is very much a cross section of America. Scouting is not as big as it was in the 90s. My perspective was in England, so there was a whole lot less for a high schooler to do. I think that threats to yank the Eagle promotion were petty and unbecoming of an officer - who punishes some kid because of a disagreement with an organization run by adults. The military-BSA relationship CONUS-wise is not as significantly important as it is OCONUS. It would be extremely rare to find a BSA troop outside of a military installation. I don't know about DoS facilities, but I assume any troops they have fall under FEC/TAC. To terminate the relationship would probably not end program participation for the hardcore Scouters and Scouts, but it would make it more challenging to execute. I am hopeful for the free registration for military members. As mentioned above, we have a lot of enlisted folks who have little spare change. I think it might be a double-edge sword though, as it doesn't apply to council fee and unit dues. There's a lot of people who aren't particularly keen on looking into things closely and reading the not-so-fine print. They will see "free Scouting" and then get upset to find out that they have to pay something. I foresee some headaches for pack leadership in particular. BSA has financially benefitted significantly from the partnership with DOD in the past and vice versa, in terms of maintaining Ft. AP Hill. These days, the relationship is far more personal to the military, since the jamboree has moved to SBR. I don't think there are any Scouting-wide events held on a military installation. It's all serving military communities.

That would be great. It would also be great if 75% of the troop actually wanted to be there rather than being forced to be there by their parents. Most of them want to be on their phone or running around. We've tried to give them ideas for games, given them resources, even conducted a game or two to show them how to play it. They always move back into some "game" that has no apparent rules. The rest want to sit on their phones and play games. They have no desire to be good at Scout skills. No desire to plan or prepare for the campout that is coming up. We've given them guidance on what to practice for the camporee because their skills across the board are not up to snuff. Half the Scouts First Class and above can't tie anything other than a square knot. We have 3 PLs that have no interest in the job. Our SPL was elected for some reason that escapes the kids who actually want to be there. He's constantly lost, does no prep work outside of Scout meetings, and has to be constantly reminded about everything. He was teaching lashings last week and taught them incorrectly. The ASPL was the previous SPL and he acts like an 11 y/o most of the time. The SM told me last week that it would be great to put together a patrol of kids who actually want to be there and put the rest into two other patrols. Then we can just let those two patrols do whatever while the rest actually do the program.

That's a separate issue altogether. I agree with you, however, this troop, and others in the area, seem to believe that BORs are on the adults' schedule, not the Scouts'. Makes no sense to me and doesn't jive with the servant leadership idea.

I'm an ASM and one of the things I do is track our Scouts below Star to provide a resource for planning to the PLC. I was updating my tracker last night and noticed a Scout that needed to fulfill Second Class 8c and 8d on Tuesday night was signed off, along with the SM conference. I distinctly remember this Scout needed those because I counseled him on it on Tuesday night toward the end of the meeting. I pointed out to the SM today that me may have mismarked it in SB because it wasn't done on Tuesday. He said that he met with the Scout this weekend and completed the requirements then, along with holding a SM conference. Contrast this with another Scout who completed all of the requirements for Second Class short of a BOR, was denied a BOR for November due to Veterans Day falling on our meeting night. He finished up First Class, minus the SM Conference before the end of November. Our BOR night is normally the second week of the month. For some reason, the CC decided to move BOR night up a week. The Scout was denied a SM conference that night before the BOR, so he could only complete the Second Class BOR that night and had to wait another month for First Class. Never was an SM conference offered on a weekend. No public announcement of offering to complete any requirements was made, other than swimming, this past weekend, and the SM was not in attendance at that event. The optics are really poor here. The troop was accused of favoritism under the last SM. It feels like the Scouts from this family are being favored over the rest of the troop. The Scout's older brother was slammed through rank progression as fast as they could. The excuse being that he is 15 and has a short timeline. Meanwhile, the Scout lacks the skills his current rank indicates that he should possess. So how do I tell the SM that this is an unacceptable way to do business? At this point, I'm ready to move to another unit, even if it adds another 15 minutes to my drive. Between the CC and SM being married and unwilling to relinquish either role and a complete lack of transparency on the troop finances, it's frustrating.

I don't know that I would call it "woke". Seems like democracy is a foundation of the country. As qwazse said, they can vote with their feet. That's probably a less desirable outcome than having a mechanism whereby the Scouts can decide they want a new adult leader.