CalicoPenn

Unless you've heard it directly from someone who works at Council, and can provide you with a Council printed application, don't believe that the Council is requiring an application for Den Chief. I find it hard to believe that a Council would micromanage and interfere with a Troop's program in such a manner. It sounds like another scouting myth to me. Edited to add: Oh, and Welcome to the Forum! And frankly, if the Council did require one, I'd ignore the "requirement" and tell the Council to go pound dirt unless they can offer a compelling reason why they need an application for a Troop POR and can answer why they don't require one for SPL, or Scribe, or PL, etc. The Den Chief position is a POR. Like all other POR's that are not elected, the Den Chief is appointed by the SPL, with advice from the Scoutmaster. What possible reason would an SPL need an application from a Scout that he should know already, and at least be friendly with, if not friends with? I can't think of a single reason unless the Troop Committee or adult Program Staff (SM & ASM's) are management theory crazy. The process should be pretty simple - a Den, through it's Pack, requests a Den Chief. The SPL identifies a Scout to serve as a Den Chief. The SPL and/or SM presents their approved Den Chief candidate to the Den Leader and Cubmaster to ensure a good fit. Then viola, it's done. (Alternatively, you may have a Scout that wishes to serve as a Den Chief that the SPL thinks would make a good Den Chief, and you search for a Pack with a Den that would accept a Den Chief). (This message has been edited by calicopenn)

When I took a trip to western South Dakota to visit the Black Hills, on my list to visit were such must see places as Badlands NP, Wind Cave NP, Jewel Cave NM, Mt. Rushmore NM, and Devils Tower NM. Also on my list of must sees were Wall Drug and the Corn Palace. Had I known about it earlier, I would have made time to visit the Spam museum in Minnesota on the way out. There's only so much serious culture, history and natural history one can take on one trip. But now, with great thanks to Scoutfish, I can classify these visits as a visit to pure Americana, and that just makes the visits that much better. BTW - I visited the first McDonalds (if by the 1st you mean the one in Des Plaines, IL and not the California restaurant of the brothers McDonald) for the first time last year. Lived near it pretty much all my life, yet somehow got around to visiting the first KFC before I visited the first McDonalds. All I can say is that's 15 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Andorra doesn't have Scouting - though it does have a (defunct) Scouting Association. It's also a very small principality whose Scouting needs are apparently being met by a neighboring Catalan scouting association. I don't think there is a big takeaway from this stat other than, as has been said, some countries have Scouting, some don't. For a long time, none of the Soviet allied countries had Scouting. But they did have their own youth groups - most were called some kind of Pioneer group, and most of those Pioneer groups replaced Scouting in countries where there was Scouting. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, many of those Pioneer groups folded and were replaced by Scouting groups. In some countries though, like Russia, both Scouting and Pioneers exist. Cuba may not have a Scouting group, but it does have a Pioneer group. Cuba used to have a Scouting group, that was apparently still active for a couple of years after the Cuban Revolution. Some say that Scouting was banned, but there is no hard evidence to support this contention. In 1961, WOSM suspended the Scout Association of Cuba from membership. The evidence points to the Scout Association of Cuba being rolled up into the Jose Marti Pioneer group in 1961 rather than being banned, just as other Soviet allied groups had done. It's a bit of a gray area as to which happened first - the suspension of the WOSM membership of the Scout Association of Cuba or the formation of the Jose Marti Pioneer Group. I've not been able to find a more complete timeline other than the WOSM suspended the SAC in 1961 and Cuba formed the Jose Marti Pioneer group in 1961. Both China and North Korea also have Pioneer groups as well. Though there are many differences between Pioneer groups and Scouting, there are also many similarities.

We don't push, we support and mentor. Eagle Scout has to be a personal goal - if a Webelos crosses over and says he wants to become an Eagle Scout, we mentor and support, we ask how things are going, we monitor, and we check in during SM conferences and BOR's and casual conversations if that's still a goal of the Scout. Parents push - it would be nice if they didn't but they do. We have to figure out a way to make it less of a chore for the Scout, more fun - thats a challenge, but it can be done. I earned my Eagle Scout badge. My two younger brothers didn't - both Life for life. They don't feel they missed anything. Neither do I. I've mentioned that I earned my Eagle through my Explorer Post. Had I stayed in the Troop, I doubt I would have earned it. I doubt I would have worked towards it. But most of my Post-mates were also Eagle Scouts. My parents never pushed me (though I knew my Dad hoped I would get Eagle - but he never insisted or pushed, just supported) but the guys in the Post pushed me a bit - I consider it positive peer pressure. I'm glad they did. It's funny - our Post also had a high number of members that were chosen for the OA Vigil Honor as youths too. I was one of them. To be honest, as nice as it was to earn the Eagle Scout rank, I can't think of any instance where it made a big difference in my life. It didn't help me get into school, it didn't help me at school (at my college, everyone was an "uber-outdoorsperson", even the science degree folks. It hasn't helped me get jobs. I can't think of any job where I was asked if I was an Eagle Scout - come to think of it, not even the BSA High Adventure Base in Maine asked me if I was, though that might possibly have more to do with the degree program and the school I was going to than anything else. I don't regret getting the Eagle Scout badge - most of the time, but there are times that I regret not getting an Hornaday Award, which is what I really wanted to get when I was an 11 year old Scout. I had to make a conscious decision at 16 which I was going to concentrate on - I chose Eagle. Sometimes I wish I had a Scout leader who pushed me a bit on doing the things necessary to get the Hornaday, or at least mentored me in the process. Alas, being a boy from the "wild" suburbs of Chicago, I wasn't surrounded by a lot of Scouters that knew much about the Hornaday Award, or for that matter knew anyone who had ever gotten one. Long answer shortened (I know - too late): Let your Scout/son be the person who makes the decision - support him in that decision - and know that though many put Eagle Scout on a pedestal, it's really just one expression of a Scout's experience.

The Thermarest Basecamp is a fine choice - it's self-inflatable to a point (It will get to a basic equalized pressure then stop inflating - for some people, when it gets to that pressure, which I would say is equivalent to a soft mattress, that level is fine). I prefer to inflate the mattress further - I like mine pretty firm so I inflate it as much as I can - never feel gravel, stocks, rocks, acorns. If I put it over a big root, I'll feel that - but that shouldn't be surprising. The nice thing is you can "adjust" it to the firmness you want - you can't do that with the Ridge Rest or other non-inflatable pads. Let the pad inflate to it's equalized pressure first before inflating further - why do the pads work for it if you don't have too - save your lung capacity for getting the pad to the firmness level you want it at. I suggest you go to a store and try them out first before you buy - a good store will let you inflate the pad and lay on it to see if it will work for you. A really good store will already have some pads inflated. Thermarest has a product called the Dream Time system - it combines an inflatable mattress with a memory foam pad and both fit into a microfiber cover (which holds the pads together so they don't slip off the other - common when sleeping on two pads piled on top of each other). It's pricey but given your recent surgery, it may be worth investing in. The nice thing about it is you can use either of the pads separately as well. For those of us that already have pads, Thermarest offers the memory foam pad and cover separately so that we can upgrade our pads (I'm considering just such a purchase). I mentioned that the pads are pricey - depending on the width (regular, large or XL), you'll pay from $70 to $100 for the pad. For the Dream Time system, the choice is large and XL - expect to pay $190 to $200 for that. I don't mean to sound like an advertisement for the Thermarest pads, but I've been very impressed with them since the 80's. My first pad was left in Canada by an old college roommate - only had it 2 years. But I replaced it right away (1986) and still occasionally use it today. It's almost 25 years old and still works well. I've not even had to change the valve on it. I've got two other Thermarest pads - a 3/4 length backpacking self-inflating pad that not only rolls up, but folds in half lengthwise that's served me well for 15 years, and an XL pad that I've been using and being spoiled by since 2005.

Jimmy Carter's signature is on mine. Say what you will about their politics or presidency but I would challenge the assertion that "No other president (Teddy Roosevelt) ... has had such a clean and integrity-driven life as he" and suggest that both Jimmy Carter, who is the only President to also have been a Scoutmaster, and Gerald Ford, the first President to earn Eagle Scout, have had as clean and integrity driven lives, if not more so, than TR. BTW - there have only been 5 Presidents who have also been Boy Scouts: John F. Kennedy, Gerald R. Ford, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama. Please note that last name on the list.

James West had tried to convince the Girl Scouts to rename themselves the Girl Guides for many years. He even appealed to Baden-Powell for help and was denied. But that didn't stop his attempt to do so until 1929. I imagine that "understanding" between the BSA and the GSA had a lot to do with the fact that the President of the Girl Scouts at that time - Lou Hoover - became First Lady of the United States when her husband was elected President of the United States. James West was a pretty intelligent man - and he knew better than to tick off the President of the United States. By the way, can someone tell us the differences between the "methods" of the Boy Scouts of 1916 and today? I see an awful lot of similarities - uniforming, advancement, teaching outdoors skills, etc. I don't think anyone would have any real leg to stand on by insisting on the "methods of 1916" language.

Judge Judy

Mr. & Mrs. Johnny may be helicopter parents, but they are trained helicopter parents - which means they know the program as well (if not better) than you do. They know that the BSA has no rules against parents acting as MBC's for their son. They know that there is no rule that states the Scoutmaster "assigns" an MBC (side to Ed - the books don't mention the word "assign" - that is just one interpretation of the meaning of what the books do say). They know that Troop policy wilts in the face of conflicting National policy. I wouldn't be surprised at all if their knowledge of the program has led to the conflicts they've had in the previous Troop. I also wouldn't be surprised if the other Troop, which you've mentioned seems to allow gambling, presumably on Troop outings (what else do they allow? Drinking?) isn't quite running the program on a true North path, and may not be the best source for information on anyone. That means you need to be extra-sharp and be prepared to pick your battles. Taking the parents aside to tell them to let the lads handle it when trying to light fires and cook with wet wood was a battle you could win. Telling them Dad can't be his son's MBC is just not worth the battle. "Long story short, while touring DC before the NJ one parent of a different scout (not a contingent troop leader) tried to get the patrol to go one way (when the SM had said no) while Johnny did not want to disobey SM. Other parent had a meltdown in front of Mr. and Mrs. Johnny, and most SM ended being called from across town to fix it. Scouts in Johnny's patrol were not kind to him the rest of the trip" What does this have to do with Johnny other than showing that Johnny is trustworthy, obedient and brave? I read this as some other parent - not one of Johnny's, tried to steer this Patrol in a direction the Scoutmaster had already nixed, and Johnny kept the trust of the SM by bravely standing up to the wayward parent and saying we need to be obedient to the SM's wishes and keep with the route we're on. This parent had a meltdown in front of the boys and Johnny's parents, but how is this a negative reflection on either Johnny or Johnny's parents? Is there more to this story than you're telling us? If the boys weren't kind to Johnny the rest of this trip because he stayed true to the SM's wishes, then the SM failed Johnny by not reminding the rest of the boys what is meant by the Scout law, specifically Trustworthy. "At the PLC debrief a week later, Johnny expressed "his" opinion that requiring scouts to cook over an open fire was too much since we had spent 4.5 hours swimming at a nearby spring (swimming was the main activity of the campout). Next time, he suggested cooking over fire should only be planned when no other activities are scheduled." And perhaps you should listen to what Johnny is saying. I agree with Johnny here. If I'm spending a full afternoon at a swimming hole, or on a canoeing trip, or on a long hiking trip, cooking over an open fire, which takes more time than cooking over a stove, may very well be a bit too ambitious. 4.5 hours of swimming, of canoeing, of hiking, takes a lot of energy - and cooking over an open fire requires more energy and alertness than cooking over a stove. And after 4.5 hours of activity, Scouts need to get more fuel in to their bodies - sooner than later. A half hour on a stove versus 1.5 hours with an open fire - which does that better? Feedback is a gift - yet the use of Johnny's offered feedback as if its some kind of evidence of a lack of something on Johnny's part indicates to me a leader who isn't listening because his mind has already been closed - perhaps by the statements of the previous Troop. "Did I mention that Johnny is a Life scout and could not even identify the correct type of kindling and tender to start a fire?" So what? Get used to it. I know lots of Eagle Scouts that couldn't identify the correct type of kindling and tender to start a fire. I know lots of former Scouts that couldn't tie a square knot to save their life. In Scouts, we teach skills, and reinforce them by using them. Learning and being tested on something one time doesn't mean I'm going to remember it forever. But constant repetition will help me remember it. Most of us learn new things everyday - and something most of us don't think about is that we re-learn things all the time too. I can't count the number of times I've been reading a historical sign on the side of the road and realizing that I forgot that I already knew it at one time. Gary Miller (presciently) mentioned the possibility that Johnny wanted to work with his dad on the Merit Badge because it might be one of the few times he has to interact with his dad - and now you've pretty much admitted that Dad is going to be offshore for at least a couple of months. Perhaps you should be factoring this in too. While I like your suggesting that former Troop member as his MBC (and that's my interpretation of giving the name of a counselor from the approved list - a suggestion), when Johnny said he really wanted to work with his father on it, did you not stop to think that Johnny's dad is away offshore for lengths of time and this would be a great opportunity for them to spend some time together, with dad teaching his son about some of the things he loves? I can understand why either or both Johnny and his dad would be devestated by your blind insistence that Johnny use the MBC you "assigned". We speak of merit badges as being part of adult association - but does that always need to be some other adult, especially when one of the prime adults in the lad's life is away for long periods of time?. I'll be blunt - I think your mind has been poisoned by what that other unit's leaders had to say about Johnny and his parents. Leaders that apparently think gambling is ok on Scout activities - if so, are they really leaders you want to listen too?. The Jambo SM told you Johnny did fine, just that the parents are perhaps more directing of the experience than was ideal - but that despite that, Johnny did fine. I don't think you can be the kind of leader that Johnny needs unless you can let go of your preconceptions about Johnny and his parents. You need to erase all the negative garbage you've heard from other sources - stuff you didn't witness - from your head and start looking at Johnny, and his parents, with a fresh persepective and an open mind. From what you've described so far, I'd want this lad in my Troop - he'd likely be one of the senior leaders in no time. If you can't jettison the negativity, then you'll only succeed in failing Johnny, and ultimately, the rest of the Troop. No wonder Johnny was hesitant to set up an MBC counseling session with you for Carpentry - don't think for a moment that he doesn't sense that you dislike him and/or his parents. Mr. Johnny owes your wife an apology - no question. But you may very well owe Mr. & Mrs. Johnny an apology for your attitude towards them and their son as well - I'm sure frustration with you lead to that call to your wife. Forget any kind of letters - when Mr. Johnny gets back, invite him and Mr's. Johnny over for some coffee and clear the air. That's the adult thing to do - wouldn't suprise me a bit if you didn't turn this around so that you become good friends and not just Scouting aquaintences.(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

I think it really depends on what role you are playing at the time. If you're with the Troop, you're an ASM and have to hang with the big kids (by that I mean the old guys with the expensive toys). When you're with the OA, you're a youth. If you're at a district camporee with the OA and not the Troop, you're a youth OA member. Sometimes, the OA will have their own campsite for just those "in between" folks like yourselves. I didn't really have that problem because I left the Troop at 16 after 2 years of juggling being active in the Troop and the sister Explorer Post (I earned my Eagle through the Post and was elected to the OA at 14 through the Post). Something had to give, and I chose to jettison the Troop. While I served as Chapter Chief (2 terms)and then Lodge Vice Chief (at 18/19 and 20 respectively), because of my unit affiliations, I was still a "youth" member. It was pretty rare to have 18-20 ASM's at the time (late 70's, early 80's) - most of the Troops in our area had either sister Posts or affiliated with a Post in the community and strongly encouraged their aging out Scouts to join one of the Posts. The ASM's that were of that age were typically Scouts who wanted to remain in Scouting while they went away to School and were really ASM's in registration only. We rarely saw them at any District or OA events. Sometimes I think the BSA really dropped the ball when they jiggered with the Exploring program the way they did.

I've yet to see any official BSA program material that states that the Scoutmaster "Assigns" a Merit Badge Counselor. I've seen lots of unit "by-laws" (read: worthless pieces of paper developed by adults who think they need to improve upon the program materials) us the word "assign", and ocassional training pieces put our by Council and District advancement folks acknowledging (without stating it is correct or incorrect) that some Troops may "assign" MBC's, but nothing from National that states anywhere that SM's "assign" MBC's. A lot of people interpret the meaning of "giving the name and phone number of a Merit Badge Counselor" as assigning an MBC. I don't happen to be one of them. I interpret it to mean that the Scoutmaster has the list of approved MBC's and is providing a name from a list - that's it, just providing a name from a list. If the Scout want's another name, the SM should provide another name. "Assigning" an MBC is, as has been said, too much adult control over the process. SM's are there to guide, not to dictate. What happens if you "assign" an MBC and the parent objects? What if that parent wasn't an MBC for the badge his son wanted and objects? What do you do? I know I would provide the name of another MBC. And if the parent was the MBC, I'd say okie doke - you're it. You can point to Troop "policy" all you want - the bottom line is that if the dad decided not to even engage in complaining (and calling your wife was not appropriate) and just decided to do it himself anyway, and if he's a registered MBC, and Johnny showed up with a completed "Blue Card" signed by a registered MBC, Troop policy or not, he earned the badge - you don't give it to him, Daddy MBC walks into Council with his copy of the Blue Card and complains that Scoutmaster Buffalo Skipper is refusing to award the Merit Badge which he, as MBC, has signed off on. Won't be pretty.

I prefer to buy my chicken from a farmer about 2 hours away that free ranges his chickens on an organic farm. It may cost a bit more, but the chicken actually tastes like chicken, not the cardboard tasting "chicken" of the mass marketers. If that farmer decided to put on a silly outfit to entice me to buy more chicken, I'd laugh, and probably buy more chicken from him. But then again, his chicken is good. I wouldn't buy Perdue or Tyson no matter how many silly outfits they wore.

Sounds like the Emerald Ash Borer - Michigan, Wisconsin and Illinois have had firewood restrictions for the past few years, and are getting even more restrictive. No firewood from across state lines. If you have it, it will be taken from you, then piled in a non-public area under a black plastic covering to keep it heated (the presumption is the oven like temps that can be geerated will kill off the beasties) until the staff has a chance to burn what is collected. In Michigan, they've instituted a 50 mile rule this year - no firewood allowed if it's from beyond 50 miles away. The only exception would be "certified" firewood bought from a state-certified dealer. You can buy firewood at the state park, or from the local surrounding area. Scrap lumber is generally not considered "firewood" for the purpose of the bans, so if you want to burn 2x4's, that's allowed. No ash wood can be brought in from anywhere to burn - not even from the neighboring woods - and species of ash doesn't matter.

You've posted, pretty much verbatim, an article from Champion News from October 2006 by John Biver that was mostly links to other articles with no journalistic balance and expect us to what exactly? Accept that this is factual information that proves that homosexuality is wrong? I tried to follow one specific link once I found the original article. I was awfully curious about what the Immunological Journal had to say about parts not fitting since the presumptive act it likely speaks about is enjoyed by both heterosexual and homosexual couples who never seem to have a problem getting the parts to fit. The link led me to the NARTH website and a "page not found" message - a dead link. So I looked up the Immunological Journal where I discovered that it is a Chinese medical journal funded by the Chinese government - gee, I don't suppose that a journal funded by a government that exerts an awful lot of social control over it's citizens wouldn't possibly be a mouthpiece for an official state position, would it? Then I started to look at some of the stats - like 54% of all AIDS cases were homosexual men by 1998 - and the way it's written, the reaction might be "54% - wow, that's a lot", until I remembered that in the 80's the percentage of all AIDS cases that were attributed to homosexual men were in the high 90's. I might write the sentence "by 1998, AIDS cases amongst homosexual men dropped to only 54% of the total" and worry more about what that meant for heterosexuals. I could go point by point and rip the "article" to shreds but I'd rather not bother. Other people have probably done it before me - that is if they actually bothered to read Champion News - and frankly, you wouldn't change your mind. I deal with the fallout these attempts to justify bigotry by mis-using and mis-quoting scientific journals and statistics everyday. Those troubled youth - driven to attempt to take their own lives by the bigotry of people who spout and repeat the claptrap you posted - deserve my time more than this does. If you are truly wanting to get the facts, then I suggest signing up at your local community college for a course on statistics that will teach not only how to derive statistics but also how to interpret statistics, and how people lie using statistics and a course on how to research, how to tell the difference between journal articles, media articles and internet articles, how to tell the difference between legitimate sources and pseudo-sources, and how to think critically about what you're reading.

"What you're describing wouldn't even be good management theory" There's two words that should never be uttered in a Scouting context. Management Theory? Is that what we're supposed to be about? Is that what the new Woodbadge is teaching? Is that what TLT is teaching? Is that what Scoutmaster training is teaching? If that's the case, then forget the "3 G's" - Scouting is doomed. I prefer the old-fashioned Mentorship Theory

Stosh, The requirements pretty much cover those special projects you mentioned - there is an option that a lad complete an assigned leadership project instead of serving a POR. Seems to me, that should cover your concerns quite nicely. Beavah, I don't look to TLT documents for POR descriptions. I prefer to look in the source documents: The SPL Handbook, the PL Handbook, the Scoutmaster's Handbook and the Boy Scout Handbook - official publications of the Boy Scouts of America. Too often, I've seen TLT documents that paraphrase the source documents, and that just serves to confuse people even more. And surely you can recognize the difference between tweaking a job description and flat-out re-writing them.

I was afraid that was going to be the answer. I guess you folks felt that the job descriptions as laid out by the Boy Scouts of America just wasn't good enough? Instead, you all felt that you know better than the Boy Scouts of America and have decided to create your own job descriptions. You've spent a lot of time perfecting something that doesn't need perfecting. Those job descriptions provided by the BSA have been around for a long time - almost every Troop in the land seems to be able to accomplish the goals of the program by following them. But nope, you've decided that the adults are going to make changes because you know better, you're going to change the POR descriptions based on rank, and then you're going to impose them on the lads, because you know what's best for them. But that's not the worst of it. You've also decided to impose your Troop's will on other units in a separate part of the program. You're now requiring Den Chiefs using the POR as Life Scouts to "plan and run some meetings on his own with assistance from the Den Leader." But that's not what the POR for Den Chief requires, and the Cub Scout program doesn't work that way. What happens if the Den Leader says "No", which they are perfectly in their right to do as the Den Leader and the ultimate authority of how they plan and run their Den Meetings? What makes your Troop think they can dictate to program leaders in not only a different unit, but a different program, how to run their program? The majority of Troops follow a path to True North - for most, the path may not be the exact same path, and may have some detours here and there, with some minor tweaking as circumstances require it, but in the end, they'll all get there. Not your unit - though you may be basing your program on the Boy Scout Program enough to be somewhat recognizable, and sort of heading off North, when you decided your cadre of adults know more than the thousands of Scouters that have successfully used the BSA program, as written, and that you can change things in your program that makes changes in other programs, you've unfortunately chosen a path taking you right off the cliff.

I'm curious about this: "Our (simplified) written expectations for Star-ranked Instructors is that - working with the ASPL - they initiate, plan, and lead skill instruction events as part of the troop meetings and campouts." Does this mean that you have different written expectations for Life-ranked Instructors, and for Eagle-ranked Instructors?

Welcome to Scouting and welcome to the forum. Best place to get the answer is right from the BSA. The following is verbatim from the online Guide to Safe Scouting: The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members. Adult leaders should support the attitude that young adults are better off without tobacco and may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants. All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants." When the BSA states that Adult leaders may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth partipants, it means that you can't let the youth smoke or chew (not much of an issue for Cub Scouts I imagine). Now some might say that it is also a ban on adults using tobacco products at BSA activities, but the BSA goes on to state that smoking areas should be located away from all participants. The BSA recognizes that adults can smoke, and many do. They just don't want people smoking near the Cubs and Scouts. Of course, while the policy is flexible on allowing adults to smoke, it doesn't mean that the Council or District can't declare an event a smoke-free event banning all smoking during the duration of the event, or that Council can't declare a Council-owned property (like their summer camp) a smoke-free property, or for that matter, it doesn't mean your Pack can't declare itself a non-smoking Pack (but doing so means potentially losing leaders and parents which means losing boys). In your situation, the Cubmaster tried to hide his smoking from the Cubs - sounds like he was trying to follow this policy the best he could. As long as he wasn't brazenly lighting up in front of the Cubs, then there really doesn't seem to be a policy issue/solution here. Instead it sounds as if the Pack needs to have a conversation about how to handle this, keeping it friendly and open to compromise on both sides - if any side takes a hard line stance, I'm afraid that the new Cub Scout Pack and the Cub Scouts will be hurt by adult hangups right from the get go. Since you're all new, you'll all want to take advantage of some of the on-line training available to you as soon as you can. Good luck with your new Pack - and most importantly: HAVE FUN.

Ohhhhh.... I never was a Beaver I never was an Owl I never was a Bobwhite I never was a Cow I may be getting older I may be getting fatter I may be getting balder I sure ain't getting feeble I never had a ticket Don't need no stinkin' ticket To give me an excuse To do the things I love I've never been to Gilwell I hear it's rather flat I'd rather climb a mountain The lads know where it's at Canoeing, hiking, camping and even some backpacking I'm going to play outdoors While I still can Back to wilderness, happy land I'm going to play outdoors While I still can Back to wilderness, happy land I'm going to play outdoors While I still can!

POR contracts? Can anyone show me the recommended POR contracts in the Scoutmaster's Handbook, the SPL's Handbook, the PL's Handbook, the Boy Scout Handbook? No? Ever wonder why they aren't there? Because they aren't needed, or desired. If the BSA expected and/or wanted units to use POR contracts, they'd provide them to the units. POR's are about learning responsibility and leadership - not contract compliance. Written POR contracts are an admission that the adult leaders are either too lazy or too incompetant to provide the Scouts the mentorship they need in order to be successful in their POR. If you have contracts, please stop - just stop. Get rid of all that business theory garbage infecting your unit - and go back to being a Scouting unit.(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

Note the term "Sanitary Toilet Facility". That doesn't mean flushable privies. It means the toilet faclities provided are sanitary - ie. clean and well maintained. I've been to state parks where the pit toilets are much cleaner than the flushable privies.

The following is from the Boy Scouts of America web site - in the Guide to Safe Scouting section. This is what they recommend. Suggested First-Aid Kit Contents Bar of soap 2-inch roller bandage 1-inch roller bandage 1-inch adhesive (tape) 3-by-3-inch sterile pads Triangular bandage Assorted gauze pads Adhesive strips Clinical oral thermometer Scissors Tweezers Sunburn lotion Lip salve Poison-ivy lotion Small flashlight (with extra batteries and bulb) Absorbent cotton Water purification tablets (iodine) Safety pins Needles Paper cups Foot powder Instant ice packs I would add latex or silicone (in case someone has a latex allergy) gloves, and at least one 3" "Ace" bandage (I'm presuming the "roller" bandages listed are gauze). I'd probably add a package of moleskin for blisters. Note that there is no mention of butterfly strips - frankly, you don't need them. The adhesive tape will do the same thing. Quantities depend on the size of the group but that doesn't mean that all items need to be doubled or tripled up. For instance, one bar of soap, one pair of scissors, one pair of tweezers for a first aid kit should work whether you have 8 people or 40 people. Same with roller bandages. Remember, it's a first aid kit - the things that are uncommonly used for 8 people will still be uncommonly used for 40. Now something like bandaids which is the item most likely to be used, you're going to want more the more people you have with you. Remember too that after every outing, one of the QM's tasks should be to inventory the first aid kit and make sure it gets restocked. Not to many years ago (ok - maybe at least 30), you could often go in to a pharmacists store and buy individual gauze and sterile pads - but not anymore. Today, building a kit from scratch can be expensive because even though you may only need 2 3x3 sterile pads, you still have to buy the box of 10 (or whatever size box it is). My suggestion - look to see what is in the ready-made kits - chances are they have most of the things on the list and you can fill in as you need too. Chances are it's going to be less expensive to buy a kit than to buy all the components separately. Buy a box of Bandaids to supplement/restock - and only buy individual components when you need to restock. If you use something, then go out and buy the component part.

2 Cub Scouts from a single parent home - but we don't know much more beyond that, do we. I'll echo Beavah here. Single parent home, at least two kids, unknown financial stability (is Mom working two jobs? Is she working one job but doesn't make much money? Is dad, if still alive, paying child support - not just ordered to, actually paying?), unknown home life (do the kids get homecooked meals or happy meals, quality time with mom, etc.), sporadic attendance patterns suggesting that there are transportation/time issues, no volunteer time from mom, again suggesting time issues. So they didn't sell popcorn or pancake breakfast tickets - ask around and find out how the other Cubs sell this stuff - chances are pretty good it's Dad and/or Mom bringing it to work - leads to the possibility that Mom can't bring this stuff to work. Kids are playing sports? Shouldn't be surprising - there are plenty of sport leagues that offer financial assistance. Do you offer opportunities for popcorn sales/ticket sales as Dens (outside grocery stores perhaps) that these lads can participate in, or do you just leave every Cub on their own? You really haven't shared enough about what this familiy's situation is for us to give specific advice about this family - we can only generalize. The things we suggest may or may not fit with your situation. For that matter, it's possible you really don't have a full enough picture of what's going on with the family either. Worst case scenario - Mom's taking advantage of everyone's good nature - but as has been suggested by some here (and I agree with them), that is a pretty rare thing. Maybe it's just the way I was brought up (which was pretty much in Scouting BTW), but I tend to be one of those people who give the benefit of the doubt until there is definitive proof laid before me. My advice would be for you and the Committee to search your hearts and decide if you think the Cub Scout program can benefit these boys, even in a sporadic way, and to decide if cynicism or charity will win out. If I was on the committee, I believe I would be voting for charity.

Hand juicer of course - A Scout is Thrifty - and though the hand juicer is an expense upfront, it increases the amount of juice that can be gotten from an orange by magnitudes over just hand squeezing - if you're hand squeezing, you're tossing out a lot of potential juice - and that's just not being very thrifty, is it? Of course the most thrifty way of all is to cut the orange in to wedges, pop a wedge between the teeth with the peel outside the lips, and bite and suck - juice with pulp - no squeezing - no glass to clean.