CalicoPenn

Well I suppose one could get offended at the waste of prefectly good food - but then again, we are talking redi-whip here, so it might be a bigger offense to call that food. Sorry - couldn't help myself. I think this is where I would draw the line - if you think you might get angry calls from parents when their son comes home and repeats the skit they did? Then you probably shouldn't let it be done.

Betters? Betters???!!! Not sure if that's really where you meant to go with that. Maybe that was the case in courts of nobility. Maybe that was the case in the old Eurasian societies. Maybe that's still the case in some societies. But I just don't see that being the case here - or at least, it shouldn't be the case here. I seem to recall one of the Founding Fathers writing some rather famous words: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal" It's a difficult path, and at times it's not been high on our priorities - but the US is an ongoing experiment in being the greatest egalitarian society in the history of the world. Now maybe some will believe that to be a myth, and we can all point to times and places when that just hasn't been true - but for me at least, I believe our strength truly lies in the notion that all people (updated for the 21st century) are equal. I look at someone in a $2,000 suit and the first thing that comes to my mind isn't "that person is better than me". No - the first thing that comes to my mind is "what kind of idiot spends 2 grand on a suit - it's just clothes". But maybe that's because I don't value money and power the way others do. Hey - I don't begrudge the person his $2K suit - just don't think for a minute that I'm going to bow and scrape in front of you because you're wearing an expensive suit. When I see the President appearing in a business suit with some other head of state wearing some kind of military regalia, I wonder who the clown is that's standing next to the President. In the more settled countries with royalty, the nobles don't tend to wear fancy regalia except for certain formal ceremonies. When the Obama's met Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip in Buckingham Palace, the Queen was dressed as one would expect a woman of that age to dress, and the Prince was wearing a simple business suit. The point that folks wear uniforms to identify themselves is well taken - but police officers wear uniforms not to show that they are better than others, but so that we can identify them as someone to get help from. As for military uniforms - in many cases, the only difference in the uniforms is the number of stripes, or the presence of metal. And to beat the whole idea of dressing to show one is better to a further pulp - I witnessed an interesting interaction in a bank on the coast of Maine once. A farmer came in dressed in grimy overalls and stinking like a working dairy farmer would after working with his animals. That offended some Executive Vice President of a major credit card bank that had recently moved in the area and this executive demanded that the bank manager do something about it. The bank manager did - he promptly closed the executive's account, gave him a bank check for his deposits, and pointed out that his $2 million dollars wasn't anywhere near enough to cause him to lose a customer (the farmer) worth $25 million. Ask yourself this - is the CEO of a $350 million dollar firm really someone's better because he wears a nice suit, and the other person wears slacks or jeans and a button down shirt? If you answered yes, would that answer change if that other person, the one wearing the slacks or jeans and button down shirt was Bill Gates?

Well now that Pack has been outed as a troll, enquiring minds want to know - what color is Pack's wild and crazy hair? Purple? Green? Or the more traditional Hot Pink?

Pack - I don't think you're mistaken about those politicians, but then I also believe that there are degrees of honesty and that no one is 100% honest (except maybe Christine O'Donnell who answered a question that suggests she wouldn't have lied if there were some Jews hiding in her house during WW2 and someone came to round them up). Let's be honest here and admit that there are times we all lie about something (and think about this - how long do you think Man would have survived if we could never lie and wives and girlfriends asked "do these jeans make my butt look fat?). I know there have been a few times in my life when I complimented someone on their hair while wondering about the accident they must have had with an industrial blender. In fact, I think I would add Pat Quinn, Governor of Illinois to that list. Can we find a couple of unimportant things he may have not been 100% truthful about? Probably. But consider that since he first became Governor, he has been telling the people of Illinois that we need to raise the income tax from 3 to 4.5% to help get us out of our deficits and debt, that he didn't repudiate that (or is that refudiate? J/K)during the campaign, and still managed to get re-elected. Calico ps - to those Ivy League folks who were offended by my putting sand fleas ahead of them in the line-up of common sense, I apologize. You're far from the level of sand flea. I meant to say Sea Cucumbers - you know, the creature that vomits up it's own internal organs when it feels threatened. pps - my apologies to any sea cucumbers out there. I know it's bad enough that sand fleas have more common sense than you, but comparing you to Ivy League folks is just beyond the pale. I hope you'll at least take comfort that you still have more common sense than them.

California has acres and acres and acres of industrial rooftops that could hold solar panels, and are closer to the population centers that need power. And we're talking huge buildings - some well over one million square feet. The Los Angeles market has 996,979,304 sq. ft. (as of January 2010) of industrial square footage (yes, that's close to a billion), the equivalent of 17,360 football fields. Even accounting for possible 2-story industrial facilities, there are hundreds of millions of square feet worth of very large flat roofs that could hold solar panels, right in the LA market. Why is it that people think taking up land out in the desert for solar farms, with accompanying extra transmission & maintenance costs, is a better solution than creating solar farms right in industrial parks right where the power is needed? I don't think Boxer's opposition is Nimbyism - I think it's just good, plain, common sense. As for wind - the giant turbines are really the start for wind - I believe they will be considered the energy equivalent to the steam engine in the future. Keep in mind that the earliest cars were steam engine driven - but it didn't really take long before the advent of the internal combustion engine. I don't think it's going to take long to develop new wind technology. I'm intrigued by those wind stalks that Troop24 shared. There are small scale vertical column wind turbines being developed - heck, the City of Chicago has a few on the roof of City Hall - and they can be set up to prevent bird collisions. Wave energy harnessing can be done along the coasts and along the Great Lakes - and I believe that dam-less hydro power on rivers in possible too. I know there is this belief that we need to let the free market develop this technology without interference from, or funds from, the government. I believe that is short-sighted and ultimately unproductive. Consider that business does things not to benefit everyone, but to benefit themselves (including their stockholders). Many of us have heard of some of the apocryphal tales of big oil buying up individuals inventions to improve engine performance, reduce gas consumption, or even replace gas as a fuel altogether. Those tales may or may not be true (and whatever did happen to the electric car? The first one that was tested in California that was great for short-distance driving for errands, and was testing very well among the folks who had leased them?) but it can't be denied there is that possibility. Consider how many things we now use everyday without a second thought that came not from the free enterprise system but from defense and space spending? Microwave ovens? Raytheon wasn't trying to perfect them to sell at Walmart for $39.99 ($19.99 on Black Friday). I think we need a lot more investment from government for alternative energy development - and for those free-marketeers still not convinced, consider that China is bounding away with alternative energy development, and it is their government that is funding that - and private business alone can't compete with that.

Erudition? That's not a word people use in everyday conversation. Indeed, in my experience, that's a word used by Ivy League folks that don't have the sense that God gave the common sand flea. Just saying is all...

Nope - no question implied - There should be no doubt that this lad has earned Eagle - and I would be shocked if the Glenview Park District didn't bend over backward to make sure this lad get's the Eagle he deserves. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Executive Director of the Park District, if not the President of the Park District Board, wasn't on the phone with the Scout Executive the very next morning. Just thought it was an interesting story to pass on. Mn - Thanks for the further digging - I was hoping someone had published pictures of the benches - those benches were beautiful - John and his team did a great job in restoring them.

I know my Troop didn't go camping every month - but we did have some kind of outing every month - some of it within the Troop, some of it a District event. I suspect most Troops don't go camping every month - and some folks are using the word camping when they possibly mean outing. Our typical schedule was: January - Klondike Derby (District Event) - this was before it became common to camp overnight at Klondike - our Klondikes were held at local forest preserves where camping was not allowed. February - cabin camping (which we didn't really consider camping - it was more of a winter sports weekend - cross country skiing, sledding, snowshoing, etc.). Sometimes Cave Camping (Eagle Cave). March - First Aid Meet (District Event). (None of the Troops in our area camped in March - one reason - Mud). April - Troop camping trip - usually Grant Pilgrimage (We would camp at Mississippi Palisades - going to Galena was optional - people could stay back in camp and hike around the palisades - most people went to Galena at 11, 12, & 13 (new & exciting) - stay in camp at 14 & 15, (been there done that) and go to Galena at 16+ (check out the girls). May - Spring Camporee (District Event - and we always went to Spring Camporee - a good portion of the OA Call-Out team came from our Troop, and call-out was always at Spring Camporee). June - Patrol camping trip - yep, each Patrol was to have their own individual camping trip). July - Summer Camp (2-week session - always included a rafting trip and an overnight horse trip). August - Canoe trip (usually a day trip, sometimes an overnight depending on where the river was). September - Troop camping trip OR Fall Camporee October - Fall Camporee OR Troop camping trip (Sometimes the Fall Camporee fell in September, sometimes in October). November - Overnight to Brown County, Indiana for Bicycling/Hiking (a farmhouse trip - we stayed in an old farmhouse where meals were provided - the area offered one bicycle trip and a number of different hikes - one could go for 6 years and never repeat the same hike twice - this was a favorite of the Troop - some new members of the Committee suggested doing something else once - almost had an insurrection among the youth - we'd give up Summer Camp before we'd give up this trip - and we loved the Summer Camp we went too). December - Day Hike - at least 10 miles. Taking out the "cabin camping", and not including Summer Camp, the Troop went camping 4 weekends per year - the Patrols went camping on their own at least 1 weekend per year. Often, we had extra one-off events like shotgun shooting at a nearby farm on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon. If you were active in OA (as those of us who were in OA were (kind of expected of us), or were a Den Chief, then you also had Fall Fellowship (OA work weekend/make-up ordeal/brotherhood/vigil), Spring Ordeal (OA work weekend/ordeal/brotherhood/vigil), Winter Banquet (OA), Spring and Fall Webelos Camporees (usually held on a separate weekend from the Boy Scout camporees to make it easier for Packs to borrow equipment from Troops and to make it easier to get staff from the Troops), Cub Scout Day Camp, Webelos Weekend (a Council-wide weekend at the summer camp in Wisconsin), etc. We always considered ourselves an average Troop when it came to outings - your mileage may vary.

"John Groden had finished his Eagle Scout project in the nick of time. And then a fire destroyed it. Scouts arent eligible for the distinction after their 18th birthday, and Groden, a Glenview resident, will hit that milestone on Friday. He completed his Eagle project, the refinishing of eight wooden Glenview Park District benches, Saturday afternoon. Hours after he finished reassembling the benches, his project went up in flames. He and other volunteers had been working on the benches in the park districts maintenance building at 1100 Roosevelt Road, which burned to the ground that night. Hes a kid that really worked hard on it, and all he has to show for it is some photos, said Andy Jackman, scout master for scout Troop 57 out of Our Lady of Perpetual Help. An investigation into the cause of the fire, which left five firefighters injured and rendered the building unusable, is ongoing. But no matter what answers surface, the loss of the benches will remain devastating to Groden. Groden could not immediately be reached for comment. Jackman said he joined scouting in about 2004. Planning for the bench project, Jackman said, began about five months ago. These benches were probably 50 years old, he said. They were extremely weathered and had been damaged by kids on skateboards. They were made of purple hardwood, a rare wood these days and similar to mahogany. After taking them to the maintenance building, Groden and his crew stripped about a quarter inch off the surface, revealing their purple color, Jackman said. Over three weekend days, Groden and his group of helpers about 15 to 20 people each day treated the wood, brushed and sanded the metal, and worked to make the benches look as good as new. Around 2 p.m. Sunday, Groden assembled the final bench. Jackman snapped a photo of him sitting on it. After the fire broke out, Groden was devastated, airing his frustration on his Facebook page, Jackman said. The 17-year-old worried that without the finished product, he would no longer be eligible to become an Eagle Scout. The things that went through his mind were, Was I responsible? which he wasnt and, Why me? Jackman said. But, Jackman said, Groden is still eligible. He and Jackman are scheduled to have a conference about the project Tuesday, and his application will be finalized this week. A meeting with the Eagle board of review will take place in the next three months." http://triblocal.com/glenview/2010/11/08/prospective-eagle-scouts-project-destroyed-in-park-district-fire/

"(oh, and don't forget your Den Chiefs - they are also required to take the on-line Youth Protection training now, or so I have read). Where have you read this? Nothing is stated about Den Chiefs on the Youth Protection section of the BSA National Web site." Admittedly, I wasn't convinced that this was really the case - but for some reason, there are folks in the Atlanta Area Council that believe this is the case - and believe it enough to add it as a parenthetical to their matrix of what training is needed. Which makes me wonder, if National isn't quietly testing the idea that Den Chiefs should be trained in YPT too, or if the legal folks for the Atlanta Area Council have looked at it and decided that Den Chiefs could be as much a risk to Cubs Scouts as adults could be.

"This staff....that staff...the way average parent looks at it is that it's the SM's. Only the insiders have any knowledge of who reports to who." All the more reason to give the Committee Chair a small bit of time at a COH to thank the members of the Committee, don't you think? If the parents only see the SM and the ASM's, how are they going to learn that there is a committee of people standing next to them supporting the program in important ways?

Mandatory YPT training isn't an onerous requirement. The training isn't dependent on districts or councils offering up the training - it can be taken online, anytime, day or night, that someone has a bit of time to spare in front of a computer. Now there are still plenty of people without internet access at home but most local libraries offer internet access, and I can't imagine why folks in a unit who have computers with internet access wouldn't offer folks in a unit who don't have computers at home an opportunity to visit and use their computers for this. (oh, and don't forget your Den Chiefs - they are also required to take the on-line Youth Protection training now, or so I have read). It's the other training requirements that are going to lead to interesting situations. Initially, I suspect that in many cases, when a unit is "hammered" and has their charter denied, the reaction isn't going to be "OMG - I've got to be trained" - it's going to be "screw it, I'm out of here" and there will be units lost for lack of adults willing to volunteer, with a resulting drop in youth membership numbers - and at some point, if that happens more often than not, National may do a rethink. Initially, I suspect that in many cases, experienced leaders who aren't on board with the mandatory training scheme, will just leave the program. I suspect that units are going to start to complain that its harder and harder to get parents to volunteer if the Districts and Councils don't offer a lot of flexibility and opportunities to attend training. I suspect that Districts and Councils, particularly the larger ones centered in and around heavy urban areas, will discover that they may have to start offering training sessions at least on a bi-monthly basis, if not a monthly basis, especially at the Cub Scout level, if they have any hope of the training requirements being met. For those that don't offer far more opportunities than they do, they'll discover that attendance at training is going to resemble lecture hall at state universities - think it's hard to find enough trainers to help with training 15 people? Find enough to train 100. I suspect that eventually, many units will take advantage of the loopholes and have trained leaders in name only that aren't actually doing the job, but are on the charter as doing the job. We'll have people who were trained rechartering every year even if they are no longer doing the position or have left Scouting altogether with untrained leaders doing the real work. Or, we will see incredible turnover in leaders, with brand new leaders for most positions being registered every year. New leaders will have 180 days (6 months) to get trained - but it's doubtful that Council will "catch" any of those folks until the next recharter period, at which time units might put someone new on the charter. And though the requirements state that units can only replace untrained leaders with leaders that are already trained, probably to prevent just such scenarios, the requirement also states that they can't replace leaders like this if the cause is because the prior leader couldn't or wouldn't get trained - hello opening big enough to drive a bus through: "I didn't give up Scoutmaster because I couldn't/wouldn't get training, I gave up Scoutmaster because my responsibilities at work have increased and I no longer have the time to give - now prove otherwise." Scoutmaster isn't being replaced because he didn't get training, he's being replaced because he no longer has time - the way I read the requirement, you can put a new Scoutmaster who still needs to be trained on the charter as long as the previous Scoutmaster isn't leaving because he hasn't been trained. Then, after the next few years of confusion and upheaval, and if National holds firm and doesn't rethink making training mandatory to recharter, it will become such an ingrained part of the whole process that the folks won't even question it and compliance will be natural.

Go rent or borrow Logan's Run this weekend. That movie will provide you a glimpse of what following Pack's suggestion might bring.

I'm for the compromise position - very brief thanks to the adults - literally brief - as in stand up where you are and sit back down recognition. But I noticed something interesting - no one's picked up on what I think is obvious. The Advancement Chair is ticked off because the Scoutmaster didn't thank her when he was thanking the Assistant Scoutmasters. Think about that for a second and see if you come to the same conclusion I come too. The Scoutmaster, head program leader for the Troop was thanking the Assistant Scoutmasters - essentially his/her staff. The Scoutmaster was thanking the program staff. The Advancement Committee Chair isn't a member of the program staff. See where I'm going with this? The problem really isn't that the Scoutmaster didn't thank the Advancement Committee Chair. The real problem is that the Committee Chair didn't spend a couple of minutes at the COH thanking HIS/HER staff - the Committee. The Advancement Commitee Chair certainly deserves some thanks - but it really should come from the right person - and that person, in my opinion, is the Committee Chair.

Pack: Carousel??

I don't think it's just politicians that's the issue. For a time in this country, the media was focused on sensationalism - the "yellow journalism" period. Newspapers competed with each other by trying to out-sensationalize the competition, even if what they printed was just out and out lies. This miserable period of journalism wasn't replaced by solid journalism - it was replaced by celebrity and king-making - with a touch of sensationalism still present. The Hearst era brought us the Lindberg Baby kidnapping - a story that was given far more play than it should have. It was that time periods equivalent of the OJ Trial. Also a story that got far more coverage than it really merited. It was a time when the media barons like Hearst weren't buying politicians - they were creating them. It was a time when media barons like Hearst openly admitted that they could influence events in order to make the news. I believe it was Hearst himself who told one of his reporters something to the effect that the reporter should stick around where he was, Hearst would bring him a war. During and after WW2 -through most of the 80's, journalism went through a renassaince in this country - solid journalism, by solid, trustworthy journalists. People like Brinkley and Cronkite - people with gravitas. Take a look at what we have now - anyone else notice a similarity to both the "yellow-journalism" and the celebrity obsessed king-making periods? Certainly, media is a major part of the problems we're facing. The information we're getting runs the gamut from half-truths to outright falsehoods. When the media is telling us that they keep putting Lindsay Lohan on the front page (figuratively) because that's what the people want, I say it's a self-fulfilling load of BS. They put LL on the front page and we have no choice but to suffer through it to get to the news we really want and since we have now suffered through it, the media claims we want it. Sometimes I think the media companies should be required to hire an independent group of non-partisan fact checkers to sit next to every pundit and newscaster on television with laptop with super-fast internet access while on the air, with a big inflatable baseball bat, and when the pundit, guest or newscaster speaks a falsehood or half-truth, should whack them upside the head with the bat and inform the viewers of the facts. Not the truth mind you, but facts (opinions are fine, and opinions can be "truth", but opinions should be grounded in facts. For instance, if you claim Democrats started the Civil War, that's opinion - but if you further claim they did so because Abe Lincoln was a Democrat, now the opinion is based on a falsehood - and that's a whacking). Alas, I know that's a pipe dream - but somehow we need to get the people to start thinking critically again. Another area we should be concerned with is polling. The problem with polling is that the questions are developed by people with an agenda - even those run by the self-identified neutral media sources have an agenda. We need to stop trusting polls from sources that accept ads for their websites (Rasmussen falls into this category) or from those that partner with (meaning are paid by) other entities (Gallup falls into this category - no more Gallup/CBS polls). Again, we need critical thinking skills. A poll that claims that 65% of people don't like the health care law and doesn't clarify what they don't like about it is worthless. I know a lot of democrats, liberals, progressives, moderates, and even a few conservatives that don't like the health care bill not because it went too far but because it didn't go far enough. Yet both those who don't like it because they don't want government in health care at all and those that don't like it because they don't think there is enough government involvement get lumped in the summary on the same "side" of the issue, despite being polar opposites. And I see that as a problem.

"I want everyone to stop and think about society's stereotype of a career goverment worker, whether its the Post Office (yes, its quasi government) the Motor Vehicle Dept, Social Security, and the VA or AMTRAK" Post office - they collect, sort, and deliver millions of pieces of mail daily (major sorting centers are open 24/7, and delivery is available on Sundays and holidays, even Christmas in major markets) to all corners of the United States including Hawaii and Barrow, Alaska at a cost of 44 cents for a first class letter with a next day delivery rate averaging above 98% in next day zones with a lower administrative overhead cost than private insurance companies. Motor Vehicle Department (state level) - processes thousands of title applications, new and renewing license plates, new and renewing drivers licenses, including written, vision and on-the-road tests for a variety of vehicles every working day. Though you may feel you shouldn't have to wait around for an hour once every 4 years (in Illinois) to get a license renewed, if you just watch the process, you understand how efficient it is - if the workers won't kowtow to your whims, its because they are trying to keep the machine moving forward - and yes, I use that analogy because we are very much moving through a form of production line when we go to the motor vehicles department. Social Security - processes millions of checks, applications for benefits, applications for cards, applications for death benefits, and status changes monthly - and have never been late with a payment. During disasters, like Hurricane Katrina, work like the dickens to make sure affected citizens get their benefits on time, even if they had to evacuate to somewhere else for a while - and are very successful at it. VA - some of the best doctors, nurses and benefits available in the US - ask Veterans that use the VA system and they'll tell you how well they are treated, and how good the system works for them. Like those complaining about Medicare, those that complain about the VA are the ones that probably aren't using it. Amtrak - An average on time record in the mid to high 70's depending on train and market on aging equipment and infrastructure which is equivalent to the on time records of the major airlines which are also in the mid to high 70's. Imagine what they could do if we were willing to pony up for the long-needed infrastructure improvements. And it's still the best way to get to Philmont for most Scouts. I look at these and I can't help but think - yep, our government could handle it well.

I had actually written comments to Beavah's post, it wasn't just a cut and paste - I either used some character the forum doesn't like, or it was so shocked that I was pretty much in agreement with what Beavah had posted that it just couldn't handle it. Sorry about that - I'll try again: 1: Agree with increasing the pool - and I'm fine with mandatory insurance. If the Federal Government can mandate that people register for selective service, it should be able to mandate that people buy health insurance - I just wish there was a public option to buy into Medicare. And if the FedGov can't mandate, then get around it by tying Medicare payments to the states with a requirement that States come up with a plan to make sure everyone in the state is insured. Betcha most states would mandate health insurance, just like they mandate auto insurance - most people don't have a problem with states making them buy auto insurance - or at least, they're used to it now. 2: Not sure it's billing overhead that's out of control (how much does it really cost for someone to key in charges and mail out bills?). I think it's the payment process and overhead in private insurance administration and management that's the issue. Single payer would help alleviate this, but if people don't want that, then let's treat health insurance companies like regulated utilities - make them prove up their requests for rate hikes in front of a health insurance utility board. 3: Agreed - the AMA is a lobbying and trade group that most physicians in the country aren't a member of, yet it holds inordinate power in the halls of Congress and in State Legislatures. States are perfectly capable of regulating the medical profession for safety and doesn't need the AMA to tell them how to do it. 4: I know people think "death panel" when things like this come up - but there have been death panels for years - most hospitals have transplant boards that determine whether someone is a candidate for an organ transplant or not - if they say no, it's a death sentence. Most insurance companies have in the past, and continue now, to deny benefits and procedures - and if people can't afford it on their own, it's a death sentence. Do we really need to replace the hips of terminally ill 96-year olds whose life expectancy is under 1 year anyway, and who is at high risk for not surviving the surgery in the first place? But why stop there, we should be limiting expensive treatments and diagnoses for people of all ages. How many of us had MRI's for sprained and twisted ankles when we were kids? Nowadays, its automatic because so many people demanded them and threatened to sue if they didn't get one that Doctors just won't take the risk not to anymore, and insurance companies just automatically pay for them - which leads to #5. 5: Not sure I agree on limiting damage awards for gross negligence (which is, after all, voluntary negligence and not accidental negligence). Instead, lets empower the courts to convene hearings to determine if a suit has merit before they're even allowed to be filed. 6: Agreed - pay GP's more than specialists - put the emphasis on wellness and preventive care, and on treating the small stuff before it becomes big stuff.(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

1. Yeh have to increase the pool of people who participate in insurance coverage, especially the younger, lower-risk folks. Simply put, yeh need da young people to pay for the old, and yeh don't want da burden of the uninsured increasing costs. 2. Yeh have to reduce the billing overhead, which is out of control. Single-payer does have its merits in this regard. 3. Yeh have to break da AMA's control of the supply side and open more medical schools. Supply and demand markets don't work if yeh allow monopoly control of the supply. 4. Yeh have to be willing to do the hard thing, and not authorize expensive treatment for the aged and terminally ill, unless they pay for it out of pocket or through some gold-plated private insurance. .

My definition of Cult: A group or organization that some people don't like. Based on the criteria of a cult that was posted, and furthering BDPT's posting, the following non-exhaustive list of groups and organizations could be cults: Catholic Church Various sects of most of the Protestant denominations, including Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Southern Baptist, etc. (If I didn't name it, don't worry, it probably still qualifies). LDS, Jewish, Hindu, Islam and Buddhist sects. (Oh let's simplify it - ANY group of an organized religious or spiritual bent). Republican Party Democratic Party Libertarian Party Green Party Socialist Party (Oh let's simplify it - ANY organized political party). National Rifle Association League of Women Voters ACLU Concerned Women of America National Audubon Society Sierra Club "Tea Party" (Oh, let's simplify it - ANY NGO or "Grassroots" organization). Boy Scouts of America Girl Scouts Campfire Indian Guides Awana Club Pop Warner Football Little League (Oh, let's simplify it - ANY organized youth group). Coca Cola Exxon Halliburton Citibank McDonalds Boeing (Oh let's simplify it - ANY corporate behemoth). And on and on and on... I think the point is made.

This sounds like a great program! Thanks for sharing it with us.

"I as a Straight male don't talk about my sexual preference to any of the boys." Are you sure? Ever mention your wife while you are around the boys? Ever have your wife drop you off or pick you up from a meeting in front of the boys? Ever have your wife attend a Troop function, like a Court of Honor, or a prent's night? You might not be setting the boys down and having the conversation, but chances are pretty good that you're modeling your sexual preference. This isn't to suggest that all Scoutmasters must be single and celibate - that's not my point at all. My point is that the "I don't talk to the boys about my sexual preferences" is a tired old argument that sounds good on paper but is meaningless in reality. It's akin to the argument of someone complaining about people flaunting their sexuality while ignoring the fact that they walk down the street holding their spouses hand, or have pictures of their spouse on their desk at work.

You didn't expose a bias, OGE. You just stated a fact.

"The founders of the United States of America led off their conversation of what our govenment/laws should look like with the premise "that all men were created equal, and that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights." This sounds like an appeal to some kind of deity to me." Or it could be an appeal to some kind of alien life force that swooped in from another planet or dimension and seeded our planet.

With apologies to Martin Niemoller (and with much sarcasm intended): First they told me I couldn't hate women, and I lost that fight. Then they told me I couldn't hate blacks, and I lost that fight. Theny they told me I couldn't hate Jews, and I lost that fight. Then they told me I couldn't hate the Italians, and I lost that fight. Then they told me I couldn't hate the disabled, and I lost that fight. Now they're telling me I can't hate gays, lesbians and Muslims. Is there nothing sacred anymore?