CalicoPenn

Sometimes, I wish it were ok to roll up a newspaper and whack people upside the head with it when they try to pull boneheaded moves. I'd be smacking the CC upside the head pretty darn hard at this point. There is nothing in any BSA policy that states that a Scout, Leader, Family, etc. must travel with the unit from point of departure to point of destination (or vice-versa). It's pretty darn common for Scouts and Leaders to join up with their units having traveled from elsewhere at the point of destination. Happens with weekend trips, happens with long term trips. If a Scout has an event on Friday night of a weekend trip but Mom/Dad can drive them out on Saturday morning for the rest of the trip, does your CC insist that they can't do that? Lot's of families will drive up on the final day of summer camp to pick up their son and continue on to points elsewhere for vacation. There is nothing wrong with this Leader and son coming to join you from Connecticut rather than flying back home. So what would happen if the CC demands this and the Leader who is going to join up with the folks from Connecticut decides to say the heck with it and just not go? With this amount of short notice, can you get a second leader to step in to save the trip because if you can't, none of you are going. Is that the result you really want? It's time to bluntly tell your CC that his "power" over the signature is minor compared to the power that the second leader has right now - you can work around your CC, you can't work around having that second leader on the trip. Is the CC ready to tell the parents of the other 5 Scouts that the Sea Base trip they've worked for the past year is cancelled because he won't sign the form because the other Leader won't fly home from Connecticut to then fly to Florida? Guess who the parents are going to be screaming at - it won't be the second leader. If the CC refuses to sign the tour permit, can you get someone else to sign it? Say, perhaps, your new CC after you have the COR can this guys butt immediately for trying to harm the progam?

Sometimes, I wish it were ok to roll up a newspaper and whack people upside the head with it when they try to pull boneheaded moves. I'd be smacking the CC upside the head pretty darn hard at this point. There is nothing in any BSA policy that states that a Scout, Leader, Family, etc. must travel with the unit from point of departure to point of destination (or vice-versa). It's pretty darn common for Scouts and Leaders to join up with their units having traveled from elsewhere at the point of destination. Happens with weekend trips, happens with long term trips. If a Scout has an event on Friday night of a weekend trip but Mom/Dad can drive them out on Saturday morning for the rest of the trip, does your CC insist that they can't do that? Lot's of families will drive up on the final day of summer camp to pick up their son and continue on to points elsewhere for vacation. There is nothing wrong with this Leader and son coming to join you from Connecticut rather than flying back home. So what would happen if the CC demands this and the Leader who is going to join up with the folks from Connecticut decides to say the heck with it and just not go? With this amount of short notice, can you get a second leader to step in to save the trip because if you can't, none of you are going. Is that the result you really want? It's time to bluntly tell your CC that his "power" over the signature is minor compared to the power that the second leader has right now - you can work around your CC, you can't work around having that second leader on the trip. Is the CC ready to tell the parents of the other 5 Scouts that the Sea Base trip they've worked for the past year is cancelled because he won't sign the form because the other Leader won't fly home from Connecticut to then fly to Florida? Guess who the parents are going to be screaming at - it won't be the second leader. If the CC refuses to sign the tour permit, can you get someone else to sign it? Say, perhaps, your new CC after you have the COR can this guys butt immediately for trying to harm the progam?

I got curious about this event so googled it - sounds like it might be an event put on by Lincoln Caverns. I can hazard a couple of guesses on why the organizers have listed waterproof notebooks. The first is that the organizers are scientists that work in the field (and by field, I don't mean the field of geology, I mean they work in the outdoors and not a lab) and waterproof notebooks are pretty much standard equipment for these folks. They're listing the tool they're most familiar with for working and writing in the field. The second guess is that part of the trip includes a visit to a cave - and caves are notorious for being damp and having lots of dripping water. It sounds like this is something these folks have offered before and are speaking from experience. Can you get away with non-waterproof paper? Probably. But I'd be tempted to buy a waterproof paper notebook (they're about 3-4 bucks) and then hope for a light mist just to see if it works. My suggestion to you is to talk to the leaders of your unit and find out what they're planning on doing. If they're going to outfit their own lads with regular notebooks wrapped in ziplock bags, then no reason you shouldn't do the same - if they're going to buy the waterproof notebook, go ahead and ask them to buy one for your son and reimburse them for it.

Hmmm - how to answer without eliminating your enthusiasm. First, Canadian Thistle is indeed a non-native invasive species. It is not native to Canada but comes from Europe and Asia. Like many plants from Europe and Asia, it was imported by immigrants because it was a food and/or medicinal plant familiar to immigrant settlers. Other plants you might know that were imported are Dandelions and Queen Anne's Lace (Wild Carrot). So removal of this plant certainly fits into any removal of invasive species plans. Most states don't just consider it a weed, they consider it a noxious weed. What's the difference? You won't run afoul of any regulations planting dandelions in your garden, but you will by planting Canadian Thistle. The big question is how successful you'll be. The answer is your success is likely to be limited. You're on the right track in wanting to cut them down before they go to seed but Canadian Thistle doesn't reproduce just by seed. Like many perrenials, it will also reproduce clonally, in this case through root nodules in spreading roots. Preventing the plant from seeding won't stop it from reproducing through it's roots. What it takes is perserverance. With herbicides (not recommended to be used with the Cub's around), you'll have better success Perhaps the Bear's could come out and cut/knock down the plants and someone comes by later to do a pesticide application - I'd arrange for the town/village to do the pesticide application, in many states, a pesticide applicators license is required to use pesticides on public land. You should see some good results, but will still likely to have stragglers. Otherwise, with a non-pesticide regime, this is something that could take a few years (maybe even 5 to 10) to get under full control. As you continually knock/cut down the patch, you'll stress the plants to the point where they will eventually no longer be viable and will die off. It may not be the right kind of project for Bear's to do if they've not yet learned the virtue of patience - knock them down this year, and next year, you might have to explain to the Cubs why it didn't work. Or you could hope that they have short memories and won't remember which patch they worked on last year. I think it's a good project if you explain up front that this is going to take a few years of folks doing this to see the thistles eliminated.

If a leader opens up a separate account without discussing it with the rest of the Pack leadership first, I'd say that's a red flag being attached to a halyard. At the end of the event, someone who wants to make sure everyone knows what s/he did was ethical and above board will want to share all the information after the event. If someone doesn't share that information and now refuses to do so? I'd say that "leader" has just run that red flag up the flag pole. Forget legality - start thinking about the first part of the Scout Law - Trustworthy. Personally, I would no longer trust this "leader" and would give him two options - share the information from the fundraiser, or his resignation is hereby accepted. He will either share or leave - and I would take this as a learning opportunity - let it go and improve your financial doublechecks.

My understanding is that Camping was a civil engineer - and this is the second time he's had math problems in his calculations (a long while back, he stated that the rapture would be in 1994). If I were a client of his, I think I'd be really worried about the safety of any project he worked on. One can only hope that he wasn't involved in the engineering of any bridges.

A couple of thoughts: "...more scouts leave the BSA during their first year of scouting than any other age and it has always been that way. The reason is because the sudden independence of boy scouting is more than a lot of boys can handle at that age and maturity" I think whomever at BSA came to that conclusion may have missed the mark - and not about the sudden independence thing but about it being more than a lot of boys can handle. As an alternative, I suggest that a lot of Cub Scouts remain Cub Scouts because their parents have made the decision that their son will be a Cub Scout, but once they cross over, I've found that a lot of parents will let their sons decide if they will remain and most of them will drop out, for no other reason than they got to make the decision and no one is pressuring them to stay. The lads aren't finding the independence burdensome, they're finding it freeing. I'll go so far as to say it's always been this way. The Pack I came from (early 70's - ancient times) had upwards of 100 Cub Scouts. The other 3 Packs in town ranged from 50 to 75. Figure there were about 250+ Cub Scouts in town. The 4 Troops in town had less than 100 Boy Scouts total and my Troop had 40 of them. Looking back, I recognize that for many of my fellow Scouts, our parents were involved in Pack Leadership, or became active in Troop or District leadership, and that it was clear, if unspoken, that leaving Scouts was just not an option. If there is any program area that has hurt Boy Scouts, I don't think it comes from Cub Scouts. I believe we should be looking at the whole First Class First Year emphasis, which has turned T-2-1 into a classroom experience for many and into Webelos 3. If I was told that my first year of Summer Camp that I would have to go to the camp's T-2-1 program instead of taking some merit badges I thought would be interesting, I'd quit.

You had 6 new boys show up, you got one new boy with application and fee and one new boy with application turned in. You already have a 33.2% success rate on this event on applications turned in. Sounds like a success to me!

"10. Your neighbors don't mind hearing "reveille" at 6 AM" This neighbor would mind

My grandfather wore a fedora. The only hats my father wore were Scouting hats. I wear a baseball cap from spring to fall (I have about 40 of them - from various national parks, refuges, forests and state parks). I wear them because I'm bald and it prevents my scalp from being sunburned. Ball caps are more informal, and when I wear them I'm generally wearing informal clothes (jeans, etc.). My grandfather never wore jeans. My father rarely wore jeans. Unless I'm wearing my work clothes, I always wear jeans. A fedora just doesn't go well with jeans. In the winter, I wear a wool cap to keep warm. Nothing I own would look good with a fedora. Not even GAP khakis (or Dockers - brand isn't important). As jeans ascended, hats fluttered away. I rarely see a boomer wearing a hat (ball caps excluded)- not even 65 year old boomers. Heck, I rarely see folks of my father's generation wearing a hat. The only folks I see wearing fedora's these days are young urban/suburban hipsters and frankly it's just doesn't look right unless the hipster has a roundish face and is wearing rectangular glasses. My wallet? $4 at office max. I use those business card wallets - they fit into my front pocket - and holds everything I need. Had a boss around my age who had the grandfather wallet - everytime we went to lunch, the wallet came out of the back pocket and onto the table - I imagine it's like sitting on a brick. What's the difference between a men's wallet and a women's handbag? The wallet is in a pocket - we don't have to match an outfit. A women's handbag is usually carefully chosen to match an outfit, or to show off a brand name. When a women carries a Coach handbag, she's making a statement to everyone she meets. At least I think that's what's going on. I could be wrong. A man can have a Coach wallet but what's the status in that? We're not going to see it, and a man flashing it around is just pretentious. More to the point - if a woman want's to spend $600 on a purse, it's ok by me - it means she's not going to be competing with me for the $600 mountain dulcimer I've got my eye on. I'm sure if I were married, my wife would be wondering why I need another dulcimer, isn't the 9 I own enough?

How many folks have fully read the terms of service for this forum? How many have fully read the terms of service for any online forum/social media site/newspaper comment board, etc. Heck, how many people have fully read the terms of service for any software they have purchased and loaded onto their computer? If you can honestly say yes to all of these, I'd like to recommend you to the Vatican for sainthood. The vast majority of people might read a portion of it, or will just click the yes box when the do you accept question comes up. Not paying attention to the terms of service isn't a crime, it's not illegal, and any violations of the terms of service are between the individual and the company that has a terms of service to cover their butts in case of a civil action. Unless the Scout is doing something illegal with a social media page (and reminder - ignoring the terms of service is not illegal) then I'm not going to make it a "scouting offense". What I will do is make sure that the unit gets a refresher session on how to safely work with the internet. If McDonalds had a rule that you couldn't order a shamrock shake unless you were wearing something green, and a Scout ordered a shamrock shake dressed in blue, by this definition of violating the Scout Law and Oath, the Scout would be violating the Scout Law and Oath - yet every single one of us would roll our eyes, shake our heads, and wonder who came up with that stupid rule. Just let it go - not following the terms of service some lawyer for a social media site came up with to cover their company's butts in case they are sued just doesn't rise to the level of violating the Scout Oath and Law. Heck, I'd argue that not following the stupid TOS rule is a form of civil disobedience that is expected under A Scout is Obedient.

Eammon - that's pretty funny - had the same thing happen at an OA ceremony once (though no one got singed). The fire layers had used diesel fuel instead of kerosene to prime the fire - fortunately for us, one of the old-timers was a farmer and recognized immediately that the thick, black smoke pouring out of the fire set-ups was characteristic of a diesel soaked fire about ready to catch and kept everyone away from the fires - the resulting whoosh when it caught was quite impressive. In defense of the fire layers, it really wasn't their fault - whoever filled the blue containers (in the US red is gas, blue is kerosene, yellow is diesel) filled it with the wrong fuel.

If you look at the rainbow on the Rainbow Council CSP, that looks like it's a good representation of what a masculine rainbow might look like.

Vicki, Heidegger's cat may or may not have been in Schrodinger's box. I'm just not certain.(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

I'd like to be around in 100 years when Scouters bemoan the loss of traditional scouting skills like utilizing social networking and I-pod management.

Schrodinger might have something to say about that cat existing, but of course that presumes that Schrodinger exists.

Perd - it is also a Christian symbol for God's promise not to flood the earth anymore. In general, a rainbow sticker (literally a rainbow - in that shape) is the Christian symbol. A rainbow colored sticker in the shape of a flag, a triangle, a strip, or a squiggle is the GLBT symbol.

"What state is this in, I couldn't find it in the artical. I use to live in Chicago Suburbs where there were neighboring towns of Joliet & Bolingbrook (fact I lived in Bolingbrook.) But then it doesn't make sense OGE's comment about tornado alley or Extreme Boonies because those cities are very large well populatied cities." It's Illinois. John Coleman, before he went on to be a founder of the Weather Channel, was the weatherman for the ABC Channel 7 Chicago newscasts. He often used the term Boonies and Super Boonies to describe the suburbs and outlying areas of Chicago. If it was a suburb outside the inner-ring of suburbs (ie Park Ridge, Des Plaines, Oak Park), it was the Boonies. If you lived in the Northwest Cook County suburbs (Arlington Heights, Schaumburg, Rolling Meadows, Palatine), the Southwest Cook County suburbs, most of DuPage County and Lake County south of Route 60, you were in the Boonies. If you lived beyond those burbs - Lake north of Rte 60 (Libertyville, Antioch, Zion), Kane County (Elgin), far west DuPage (Aurora) McHenry County (Woodstock) and Will County (Joliet, Bolingbrook), you were in the Super Boonies - sometimes known as the Extreme Boonies. He might tell you that you could expect 3 inches of snow, 6 inches in the boonies and 8 inches in the super boonies and you knew exactly where he meant. Yes, Joliet is a large City - heck, Aurora is the second largest city in Illinois, but from downtown Chicago, it's in the Super Boonies - and it's the proximity from Chicago that counts. Though both would be major cities in most states, they're mere towns when compared to Chicago Heck, Rockford is one of the largest cities in Illinois, and is not just west of Chicago but significantly north of Chicago and is considered "Downstate" by Chicago standards (and too far away to be considered a "Super Boonie", even though most of the time I can get to Rockford in less time from Schaumburg than I can get to downtown Chicago from Schaumburg - I don't think my leg has ever fully recovered from the 2.5 hour Friday night rush hour trip in first gear in my Mustang back about 10 years ago). I can see Tornado Alley applying - Bolingbrook and Plainfield have both been hit by tornadoes within the past 20 years.

I just spoke to a friend of mine who is involved with a unit in Morris. His take is completely different. It seems there's a bit of scuttlebutt that the official reason for the name change is a smokescreen, and that the real issue is the professional staff believing the name is more appropriate for a Girl Scout Council and it harms their ability to do fundraising. He also agrees with me that Scouts get teased because they are Scouts. I won't share what he thinks of the volunteer quoted in the paper.

Uh huh - Scouts are teased because of the name of the Council? Yeah - and pigs fly.

Just curious - I see a lot of "I want" in there - but what about the PLC? If the Scouts aren't ready or willing to come along on your adventure, yet, then you could put yourself at a disadvantage in trying to fulfill your ticket. Perhaps part of waiting a year is to give the SM the time to prime the pump with the PLC so that the timing meshes. Just a thought.

Are you saying a 7-day trip in one of the most beautiful wilderness areas in North America isn't enough?

Welcome to the forums Emberizidae, errr Sparrow (sorry - practicing my nomenclature for an ornithology test) - as I'm sure you've figured out by now, it's not uncommon for threads to take really weird turns at times - like what's just happened here. (This message has been edited by calicopenn)

Yeah, that'll look good at Council, a unit rejecting a project that the recipient is very happy with.

Pack - I can assure you that the rapture didn't happen in 1996. I was pretty busy that year and never got around to initiating it. Of course, had you been drinking the kool aid instead of the flavor aid, you might know that.