CalicoPenn

Yeah, the value of selfless service tends to diminish quite a bit when it's 98 degrees and the sun is beating down on you. I'd complain with frustration too if I were hot, tired, in need of a shower and nap. I was your son most of my Scouting career - both my parents were leaders, both at the unit and district level. I got "volunteered" to do an awful lot of extra work as a result. One thing that worked out well for us after weekend trips, or even all day events, was to change the priorities. Make showers and naps the first priority, then unpacking and setting up tents. The tents can stay in the car for a couple more hours, and the nap does wonders for reviving the batteries.

Gary, It is fairly rare but there are some church sponsors that are opposed to fraternal and masonic-like clubs and consider the OA to be on par with them so they just don't allow it. Edited to add: I am not trying to open a debate on whether the OA is fraternal or masonic like. If someone wants to spin off and start such a thread, by all means, feel free - but it doesn't really matter if we think it is or is not - what matters is if the CO thinks it is, and if the CO does, and decides it's not to be part of their Boy Scout program, and National doesn't have a problem with that, then we owe it to those CO's to respect their beliefs and move on.(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

SR540Beaver has some good advice that's particularly useful when a Troop has never participated and no one knows anything about the OA. But we have a situation here where a Scout has expressed interest in the OA and so he must know something about it and a Scoutmaster is refusing to allow this part of the program in to the Troop. Sure, maybe the first thing a Chapter Adviser can do is have a friendly cup of coffee with the SM and find out what's going on. But unless that Scoutmaster tells you that it is the policy of the Chartered Organization not to participate in the OA (and there have been some that do not allow OA in their units), then you may need to go to the CC, the COR and/or the IH, bring them some literature, get them on board, and ask them to intervene on their Scout's behalf with the Scoutmaster. When it comes to the OA and the program, the SM's negative personal feelings about the OA should not be allowed to deny programming opportunities to the Scouts.

"12 lost for more than three days and 6 serious accidents with three deaths in under 2 months is way over the acceptable average in any park" Speaking about the way things are presented. The problem with using words like "any" in an absolute way is that there are always exceptions - and in this case, there are more than just a few exceptions. Not sure what news reports you read but I can tell you from both experience working in a National Park (Acadia in Maine) and from chatting with fellow alumni who are protection rangers in National Parks all over the country, that in our bigger parks (Yellowstone, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Acadia, Smokey Mountains, Everglades, etc.), 6 serious accidents with 3 deaths in 2 months is under the average, and that lost hiker alerts are quite common place.

How long is the backpacking trip and what will you be doing with the cheese? I've found that a good cheddar or swiss will hold up a day or two unless it's a particularly hot week/end. A hard cheese, like a parmesan or a romano will last longer. Stay away from softer cheeses - the harder the cheese, the more rugged it will be. Swiss and Cheddar are considered a soft cheese but many at the harder end of soft and are about as soft as you want to get. Check out some of the Irish cheddars, they can be a harder cheddar than others. Stay away from the mass brands - they tend to be on the softer end of the scale. You should be ok with blue cheese crumbles for about a day. Cheese is best served after it's been out of the fridge a while anyway - the flavor is better. Now for the unfortunate rub when it comes to the recipes. If the recipe calls for you to grate the cheese, the only ones that will hold up well enough to grate after a day or two on the trail are the hard cheeses. For a cheddar or a swiss, it's best to grate them right out of the fridge - when they warm up to serving temperature, they just don't grate well. Pre-grating the cheese, unless it's a stabilized product as Buffalo has mentioned, rarely works because by the time you pull it from your pack, it will have congealed into a glob. But we're Boy Scouts - we can figure out alternatives.

Yep - the Den Chief Service Award can be worn for as long as the lad is a youth member, even if he's no longer a Den Chief. Yep, the Den Chief Service Award braid can be worn with the Den Chief braid (Cub or Webelos) if the lad is actively serving as a Den Chief. Note the CAN. He can wear just the Den Chief Service Award braid if he chooses, even if he's active as a Den Chief. In some larger packs, there may even be a tradition that a recipient of the DCSA who is an active Den Chief wear just the DSCA braid to indicate that he is a "senior" or more experienced Den Chief and serves, with the knowledge of the SM of course, as a mentor to the other Den Chiefs. Congrats to the Scout (I earned the DCSA - I consider it one of the highlights). Have you thought of recognizing him both at a Troop's COH (and invite the Cubmaster and Den Leader) and also at the next Pack Meeting (where hopefully the Cubmaster will invite the SM and SPL)? One last thing - Den Chief is one of the POR's that, provided the Scout has time and the energy, can be done at the same time as another POR, so think about whether a good Den Chief really needs to "move on" to another POR.(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

"Had to re-read that several times...why is it unwise to eat edible plants or wildlife? It is better to eat inedible? Or is LNT so entrenched in our thinking that it's better to sit under a tree and starve than nibble on some berries or trap a rabbit?" So why is it unwise to eat edible plants or wildlife? Euell Gibbons, one of the most famous scroungers of edible plants, almost killed himself a number of times eating wild plants - and he was an expert. Read the book Into the Wild by John Krakauer. It shows just how easy it is to mistake an edible plant with a poisonous plant, even when you have the identification book in front of you. Many wild plants need to be cleaned and cooked before they can be eaten. That takes time and energy that could be better used elsewhere. There are also many adages out there that can lead you wrong - one I remember is if the berry is red, it's not safe to eat. Of course that eliminates wild strawberries and red raspberries, doesn't it? Another is if a berry is dark, it's safe to eat - but some of the nightshade berries that are toxic to humans are deep purple. Now let's consider what "toxic" means. There are some plants that may poison and kill you outright, but most of them that will harm you take time to work (Into the Wild demonstrates this well). Many are plants that you can eat at home, get sick for a few days, but still make it, because you are at home getting proper care. But if you aren't at home, and eat that one plant you think is safe, or even that you know is safe but aren't used to eating, or eating meat that your body isn't used to (how many have actually eaten rabbit on a regular basis?), then get the runs for a few days, you're on the dehydration express train. So that survival food has now become a threat. We can survive for 30 days without food and only 7 without water. In the majority of "wilderness survival" situations these days, rescue or self-rescue can be accomplished in less time than that. Instead of spending the energy needed to trap meat, or gather plants to eat, the time is better spent to getting fresh water, gathering wood to build fires to keep warm, building shelters when needed, and in some cases, finding one's way out. In most places in the continental US, if you find a river and follow it downstream, you will eventually run into civilization. If you run into a patch of raspberries, or blackberries, or blueberries, or wild strawberries while making your way down stream, then I'd certainly partake - but I wouldn't go out of the way to find them. Heck, I'd rather be looking for an old apple orchard - that tells me I'm close to some kind of human habitation (Ol' Johnny didn't plant apple trees in the middle of places that didn't see settlement).

Awww Eamonn, American English is easy. First you drop all those unneccessary U's after O's (like Color/Colour). Then drop unneccessary I's (Aluminum versus Aluminium - Alcoa spells it Aluminum - they're the world's leading producer of it, I'm good with their spelling), and lastly, know that a boot is something you wear on your feet. The only survival Spanish one truly needs is "Dos Cervezas, por favor"

Ok - so what's the next step? Will you be taking these issues to the advancement committee, the camp director, the program director, the camping committee and the Scout Executive and demanding better of them? Will you be attending the same summer camp again? If you know this particular summer camp is a merit badge mill, are you willing to tell the Council that you're done with their camp until they get their act together and will be attending a new camp? What's next?

On the lifeguard issue: when a private organization rents out a public swimming pool, the private organization can make the rules about who can or can't swim, and who can or can't lifeguard. The public body can say that the organization must use the public body's lifeguards, but the private organization can say they must all be male or female as they have the right of free association. Private organizations are allowed to discriminate - they can even discriminate on public property. What would be discrimination is if the Seattle pools rented to this Islamic group and not rented to the Boy Scouts. As long as all have the right to rent the pools, then there is no discrimination. There's not even anything wrong with a public body putting up fliers for the private organizations event - as long as the public body is not paying for the creation and printing of the flier, and the public body allows other organizations to put up their fliers. If the Cub Scouts want to have a pool party recruiting night and rent the pool and want to put up fliers, they would be allowed - if they aren't, and the Islamic group is, then that would be a violation of federal laws on equal access. Just because a public body posts a private flier, it does not mean the public body endorses the private group or the information in the flier. That doesn't mean the public body can't have rules - they have to provide equal access - if they don't post anyone's private fliers, they don't have to accept yours - then they aren't discriminating. If they only post fliers related to a specific venue - say a swimming pool or an ice skating rink, then it's not likely that an equal access claim will be successful if you come in to post a flier not related to that venue. As for whether it is violating the local discrimination clauses, you'll have to take that up with them. You may believe so, but local governments can interpret what those laws mean for themselves - if they say that the discrimination clause doesn't apply in this case, that's them interpreting their own law - and it would be rare for a judge to overturn that, unless you could prove that the government is applying that interpretation inconsistently. "I guess I hijacked my own argument aboput Hispanics being a far more important issues than homosexuals to Scouting!" Something made me stop and go Hmmmm when I read this. It's widely believed that the Hispanic population is pretty conservative, and less tolerant of homosexuality. You would think that the BSA's policies against homosexual leaders would make the BSA more attractive to the Hispanic community. Yet we're still struggling to bring them in. I'm wondering if Hispanics look at the BSA, notices that it doesn't seem very welcoming to some folks (gays, girls, some religions) and, even if they are less tolerating of gays, wonder if "there but by the grace go I" and are wary of an organization that openly discriminates in any manner.

"Being heterosexual I fail to understand gay or homosexual sex. Two men or two women just don't seem to have what is needed, in my view." Not surprising. I think many of us forget that sex is more than a physical act. The biggest part is emotional. And that's something that shouldn't surprise any of us, since almost everything we do or everything we are is grounded in emotions somewhere. Yet most of us forget the emotional component of everything that we do - and come to believe that everyone must share the same emotions that we do. It can be hard for heterosexuals to understand homosexuals - it's hard to understand the emotions of anyone - even people we have lived with for years. Unless you can put yourself in the place of others, you will always have a hard time having empathy or sympathy or understanding. It may be easier for younger folks these days, who aren't being exposed to the same messages that older folks were exposed to. I have a brother 10 years older than I am - he still rants and raves about "communists". Me? When someone rants about communists, I roll my eyes and wonder who tampered with his cheerios that morning. Because of the times that he grew up in, he seemed more readily influenced into believing that all Muslims were bad because of a few nutjobs back in September of 2011. The times I grew up in? Prepared me to question mass assumptions. The true beneficiaries of the 60's and 70's wasn't the people going to Woodstock or living the lifestyle - it was the children growing up in those times seeing that message of peace, love and civil rights being fought over. I don't understand Nascar. I don't see any attraction in sitting in hot, crowded stands full of people, drinking cheap beer, and watching cars drive around never-ending ovals all day. I just don't have the emotional connection to it. I don't undestand watching football, baseball, soccer, basketball either - again, I have no emotional attachment to it. I don't understand going to church on Sundays and letting someone else tell me what God says. I just don't have an emotional attachment to it. But - I have no problem if other people want to spend their time and money watching or doing these things. Sure, I may not be able to understand it, but I don't have to understand it in order to let people live the life they choose to live.

Not sure if it's because they wear masks - but that makes sense. You also have to have a dog with you. It can be a teacup poodle you carry in a bag over your shoulder, but you have to have a dog.

In Missouri, centerfire pistols and revolvers can be used to hunt deer. It's also not unusual for hunters to carry pistols as well as rifles or shotguns. In Maine, you are required to carry a pistol in order to hunt raccoons. You don't have to use it, but you have to carry it.

The Scribe runs the election (unless he is a candidate for SPL - then the most senior Scout holding a POR not running for SPL runs the election). Votes are counted by the Scribe in presence of 2 randomly picked Scouts and the SM. The Scribe announces the winner who takes office the next week. During this week of transition, the new SPL makes his appointments of ASPL and the other POR's, except for PL's. Patrols are reorganized the night of the election (if neccessary) and choose their PL during the transition week. At the next meeting, all previous POR holder's terms end and the new terms begin. The term is for 6 months. The only exception is Den Chief. They are generally appointed at the beginning of a Pack year, which may not correspond to a Troop election, and are appointed for the entire Pack year. Nominations for SPL can be from any Scout, including a Scout himself. It is suggested that the Scouts be at least First Class and have held at least one POR but it is not required. The Scouts can nominate a brand new Scout if they want. Never had the Scouts elect someone who was not at least First Class so they generally self select anyway. A lot of times, when a Tenderfoot or Second Class Scout expresses that kind of interest, though they most likely won't be elected, the new SPL is going to talk to them about taking on one of the other POR's since they've shown interest in leading, if they aren't elected by their Patrols to be Patrol Leader. Patrols choose their PL's however they want - election, rochambo (aka rock, paper, scissors), coin flip, pick-a-card, dice roll, or whatever safe method they choose (dueling at dawn is not allowed, nor wrestling for the position).

To answer Cambridge's quasi-query - if the tents are canvas, it's generally fine to paint them - but use a fabric paint, and hand paint it. Wander around a few rendezvouses (sp?) and you'll see canvas teepees and lodges that have been painted. And be creative with canvas - instead of a plain ole number, paint wolf paws on one, bear paws on another, or, if you have an artist in the group (or a really good stencil) paint a wolf head or bear head - or whatever else your imagination can come up with.

If you're going to use spray paint, make sure to use a spray paint specifically designed for fabrics. Many spray paints use solvents to help keep the paint liquid and flowable that aren't good for tents. Even spray paint designed for fabric could compromise the water-proofing of the tent. A laundry marker is a better option - but read the label first - make sure it won't damage the fabric of your tents. Many tents, flys and tent bags have care of fabric instructions sewed into a seam somewhere (like pillows and mattresses). Consider leaving these in place and marking them instead of the tent, fly or bag. Pole and stake bags usually don't have these but there is no worries on damaging waterproofing for these bags. Another option is not to make big markings (and 6" is pretty big). If the goal is just to be able to match tents with flys and bags, considere a small marking somewhere inconspicuous (do you really need to announce to someone wandering by your camp that this is Tent #1, etc.?), but uniform for each tent - for instance, maybe you mark the front left stake loop on each tent, or the tent fly right above the left side center grommet. Marking the tent body, or fly, may or may not damage the tent, and may or may not damage the waterproofing, but do you really want to take that risk?

Not the same conclusion I come to BS. The conclusion I come to is "being a wimp about rain makes you a Republican"

Metric System? Oh yeah, that weird system of measurements that causes people listening to Canadian radio to wonder when 33 degrees was considered hot and people driving Canadian roads to wonder why 65 kph seems so slow.

I think it's a great idea to have a mentor in the Troop for Den Chiefs to go to. My suggestion, if you want to learn more about the position, is to get yourself a Den Chiefs Handbook and read it. While you're at it, read through the requirements for the Den Chief Service Award. It could be a big positive for you to be mentoring and tracking the Den Chiefs for this award. In many cases, Den Chiefs have done everything they need to do to earn this award, including time in service, but never get the recognition they're earned because no one is keeping track - neither the Den Chiefs, the Troop Leaders or the Pack Leaders. The time in service requirement is 1 year, so SMT's Scout who has been a Den Chief for the past 2 years has fulfilled the most difficult part - being a Den Chief for a year. Chances are pretty good that just by beaing a Den Chief, he's already met all the other requirements. Curious to know if anyone has ever talked to the Scout about it. Also, don't hesitate to sit down with your Cubmasters and chat - see what their expectations are and let them know what yours is.

Dinner: Cheese, Sausage, Carrots, Apple, Crackers, Almonds or GORP. Equipment needed? A good sharp knife, fingers, use one of the plastic bags used to carry the individual food items as a cutting surface placed on a convenient, natural, "cutting board". Wipe the knife down well when done. Advantage? No stove, no fuel, no pots needed, clean-up's a snap. Lunch? Onion bagel with peanut butter and cheese - made ahead of time (bagels hold up better than sliced bread), carrots, apple, gorp. No equipment needed. Breakfast? Apple (yes, I know - more apples - they hold up well in traveling), fresh fruit gathered near camp (there is something to be said for raspberries, blackberries, wild strawberries, etc. gathered in the morning), breakfast bars, sausage. Unless you absolutely can't live without coffee, hot cocoa, tea - you can do a weekend trip requiring no cooking at all. Imagine being able to go on a longer canoe trip, or hike, or other activity because you've just cut 3 hours of prep and clean-up time out of the day. Something to consider every once in a while.

There is no national policy on who a Den Chief can't work with. If they're a Den Chief in mom's den, that's ok. If they're a Den Chief in dad's den, that's ok. If mom or dad is the CM, that's ok too. No den needs more than one Den Chief. If you have multiple Den Chief's in one den, then you need to pull some out. Though the Pack assigns the Den Chief to a den, the post is still a POR for the Troop, and the Den Chief must be appointed by the SPL (in consultation with the SM). As such, the Troop still has some quality control for the position. You shouldn't remove someone from a den or pack just because you want to without consulting with the den leader and cubmaster (that's just bad PR and one of the biggest purposes of Den Chief is what I call "quiet" recruitment (meaning the Den Chief recruits just by being there setting an example, not by actively recruiting). But if the Pack is assigning more than one Den Chief to a den, that's a simple conversation with the Cubmaster to either find other dens for the lads, or to just choose one of them. Yes, it's perfectly fine for a Scout to use the same POR for each rank requiring it (except for Bugler, which can't be used for Eagle). If you have a First Class scout that is elected SPL, and uses his time for Star, would you deny him the ability to use his time as SPL after he reaches the rank of Star for Life? I sure hope not. Also, there is nothing that states that a person can't hold more than one POR at a time - that's especially common for such POR's as Den Chief, Bugler and Chaplain's Aide. I was a Den Chief from 12-18 - that POR served as my POR through all of my ranks. I also served as Scribe, Quartermaster, PL, and Instructor. Those "extras" likely helped in my BORs. Don't be afraid to challenge a lad to take on an additional POR if he's a Den Chief. The POR's should be looked at as more than just things needed to get rank.

Well I imagine it came from the custom of military flag bearers that bring a flag that has been draped on a soldier's coffin then ceremonially folded over to a widow(er). In doing so, they hold the flag to their chest with their arms crossed over the flag (thus clutching the flag to their chest). I suppose it's done for the greater symbolism of holding the flag over one's heart rather than carrying it like a football.

Just say no - and leave it at that - let him complain up the chain and let them grant him his wishes if they want.

One year (at band camp - J/K) at Summer Camp, one of the other Troop's leaders was thrown from a horse and bunged up his knee pretty badly (fortunately, nothing was broken, but he had a heck of a time getting around for a while). The Scout's did a bit of pioneering and created a sedan chair to carry him around. The Scouts in the unit would tussle over who got to carry Mr. ASM to the flag ceremony, and to the dining hall. Who needs golf carts when you have wood, ropes, and Scouts to act as a motor?

Well I think it's perfectly fine to march in a parade carrying a hand drill, but a power drill, even if not plugged in, might not be kosher. In all seriousness, I wouldn't get too upset over how good Cub Scouts, or young Boy Scouts, are at doing a flag ceremony in public. Frankly, I doubt that most people in the crowd is even going to notice if something is wrong, like the pack flag getting ahead of the US flag, or the US flag being walked up on the wrong side. Most veterans I know that will notice won't say anything because they're just thrilled to see those Scouts in uniform doing this. If any were to come up to me afterwards complaining, I'd simply ask them if they remember what s/he was like at 10 years old then walk away and find someone more pleasant to talk to. When I was a Cub Scout, we did a drill team for the 4th of July parade. 16 of us practiced for 6 weeks, 2 times per week while the rest of the 80 kids in the pack just got to show up on the day of the parade and walk behind us. I hated it, but my father was the CC so I had no choice. Fun? It was in no way fun. It was work, and it was useless, senseless work. None of us liked it but dad says you will do it and you did it. If you are going to do it, make sure the Scouts are wanting to do it - if they don't, let it go.