CalicoPenn

Unfortunately, that's one of those universal questions that can't really be applied universally. By that I mean that we all recognize it as a societal issue but we don't all experience it. I used the word "issue" deliberately because while it's a problem in Basement's are, it's not a problem elesewhere, but even those of us who live in the "elsewhere" recognize the issue. I think much of the answer, then, must be answered based on your local conditions. Where are the men in Basement's area? I just don't know - it seems, based on Basement's posts, that the area is a relatively impoverished community dominated by single parent (mostly female) and grandparent families. Unfortunately, from the outside, the first answer to come to mind is that isn't very flattering, is very stereotypical, and may not be correct. However, if you were to come my way and ask that question, we'd wonder what your agenda was as we've not experienced that shortage of men and would be waiting for the slam on minority inner city communities. There is also the problem of trying to compare today with the past. When I was growing up in the 1970's, my mother worked outside the home for 3 hours per day, 5 days a week - todays working mother works 40 to 50 hours per day. My father left for work at 7:45 am and was home by 3:45 - his work day was 7 hours long. That was fairly common of my friends fathers too so meeting at the church at 4:30 to go camping for the weekend with the Troop wasn't a big inconvenience for anyone. Today, dads are working longer hours as well. Let's not forget that from WW2 on, there has been a major change in where Americans live. While our major cities were large, the majority of Americans prior to WW2 lived in rural and semi-rural areas. There were fewer major American cities back then too - NYC, LA, Chicago, San Francisco, Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh - that's pretty much it for the really large cities back then - Dallas was still cow pasture, Houston was still oil fields, all the other cities we would now call major were just in their potential at the time. After WW2, we developed real suburbs, and small cities became bigger cities and now over 70% of Americans live in urban or suburban areas. That's had a major affect on a lot of other things - folks spend less time outdoors, there are fewer hunters and fisherman, men are spending a lot more time golfing and less time on the "manly" outdoor pursuits - and I think that's reflected in Scouting as well. Scouting has always been slow to embrace change in society - it's not just the 3 G's - there are subtle discriminations taking place too, mostly due, I believe, to the emphasis on the "traditional". We tried, in the 1970's, to urbanize Scouting, because that's where the population growth is. We failed, I think, not because of bad program materials, but because traditionalists failed to embrace the change. Today, we're very good at attracting the 2 parent suburban/semi-rural family with Leave it to Beaver visions still dancing in their eyes instead of recognizing the very real needs of units like Basements. I'll bet basement would welcome with wide flung arms single, adult males who want to help but since the 2-parent paradigm is still primary, they're looked upon with great suspicion. I suspect that we'll be stuck trying to anser the question until the BSA can figure out a way to adjust to our new realities.

First, Welcome to the Forums!! You've started with a question that is going to get you nearly unanimity of responses - the next one might just fly off into directions you'll never dream of - and that's part of the fun of the forums! So my answer? You're a Cub Scout leader - use the Cub Scout sign - always - even if you are the only Cub Scout leader in attendance. If you were both a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout leader, then you would have to worry about which sign to use. Even if you're the Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner and are wearing Silver Tabs - use the Cub Scout sign. When you become a Boy Scout leader, then use the Boy Scout sign. Saluting the flag? Hand over the heart is always an option. But you are in uniform, albeit not a military uniform, and the flag code specifically allows non-military citizens in uniform to give an appropriate formal salute - for uniformed Cub Scouts and Leaders, it's the Cub Scout salute. For uniformed Boy Scouts and Leaders, it's the Boy Scout salute. That same clause allows police officers and firefighters to salute the flag as well, rather than just hold hand over the heart. Keep in mind, Formal Saluts and Military Salute mean different things. Though a police force's Formal Salute may resemble a Military Salute, it is not, for these purposes a Military Salute. As a side for anyone interested - in 2008, the code was changed to allow members of the Armed Forces and Veterans who are not in uniform to use the Military Salute. As for signs-up? Remember when I mentioned that somtimes the answers might go in directions you hadn't though of? This is one of those times. If you must join the crowd in "signs up", then use the Cub Scout sign - even if you are the only Cub Scout leader in a sea of Boy Scouts. Me? I don't participate in the "signs up" act. My personal belief is that "signs up" demeans the Cub Scout and Boy Scout signs from a meaningful symbol to a visual "shut up". I believe the best way to get folks attention is to stand quietly at the head of the room and wait until folks settle down - and they tend to settle down quickly - it's amazing the power a single, standing, silent person facing down a crowd has. Oh, and welcome to Scouting - it's an adventure and a half!

Well now it's time for the aftermath. By all means, send that letter to the Parish Priest - but don't be surprised if the CC and COR have already painted you folks as the troublemakers. You will now be starting 3 units from scratch - none of them have equipment - don't even think of taking equipment from the existing Pack, Troop and Crew - it's theft and could be prosecuted as such - and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the current leaders pressed charges. You also have no money. If you had Scout Accounts? They no longer exist - don't expect any money to follow you. Hopefully those active ASMs weren't scheduled to be leaders at Summer Camp and now Summer Camp will have to be cancelled for lack of leaders. Probably too late for refunds now. There is no doubt that there as some dysfunction in the Troop - much of it apparently stemming from disagreements of interpretation of requirements. Why you folks didn't avail yourselves of either a Unit Commissioner to help figure out a compromise, or the Parish Priest (my gosh, mediation is part of the job description!), is beyond me. But - and this is the big one - nothing you've talked about appears to be a violation of BSA policies. Yes - 3 years without advancing to Tenderfoot is ridiculous - but although you and I might disagree with the former SM about what it would take to pass certain requirements, it doesn't mean the SM was wrong. At that point, the thing to do would be, as an individual, to find a new Troop for your son that more aligns with your thinking, something that was suggested to you back in 2010 when you first posted about that issue. There is no apparent violation in the Scoutmaster's "adult" son joining in on a campout, regardless of sexual orientation (him being gay is really just a McGuffin in this case - the BSA doesn't allow gays and lesbians to be registered leaders, it says nothing about gay and lesbian parents, siblings and offspring not being allowed to participate). In most cases, I'd discourage the practice of a Scoutmaster's aged-out non-registered son from joining, regardless of whether they were gay or straight, but sometimes, it just might happen. You allege he was there with his boyfriend - if true, as SM, I probably would make it a point to make sure they weren't sharing a tent but I noticed an awful lot of folks in this thread presuming that hanky panky went on between these two at night in the tent when you made no such factual statement - just saying he brought his boyfriend was enough to get some folks frothed up. And in that wonderful naivety of adults who insist that youth are naive, its pretty darn likely that most of the kids in the Troop knew that SM's son was gay long before he turned 18 and just don't have a problem with it. It's a lot like the SM likely being naive about his father knowing his grandson is gay (as ScoutNut pointed out). Grandpa has more likely than not known for years but is afraid to say anything for fear of his son tossing the kid out on his ear. When someone "complained" to the Council Office about the SM and the Council Office called the SM, that should have been a pretty big clue - Council doesn't like to get involved in local unit angst - and if they called the SM, they must not believe any G2SS violations occured either. Looking back, I'm starting to wonder if this just wasn't a long power-play in the offing that just came to a head in which case your side lost. To be honest, if I were the CC or the COR, I would probably invite anyone unhappy with the direction of the units to leave as well so I could try to salvage my units from the ashes.

A couple of weeks ago, I was at an event where a local Boy Scout troop was running the food booth, which is one of their biggest fundraisers of the year. Not a uniform among them, unless you count the red t-shirts with a big BSA fleur-de-lis on it with the troop number prominently displayed. All the lads, and adults, were wearing jeans or shorts, boots or gym shoes - but you know what? There was no doubt in my mind, or anyone elses mind, that these fellows were Boy Scouts, and when they had a chance to wander through the event (a dulcimer festival), many were stopped by folks who wanted to tell them of their experiences in Boy Scouts. Is it important to wear "the" uniform? I don't think it's as important as wearing "a" uniform. A bunch of scouts heading down the trail wearing the same polo shirt, or wearing the uniform shirt and jeans is still readily identified as Scouts. It used to be that we could identify scouts without uniforms all the time - there are plenty of apocryphal stories from the 20's through the 70's of ununiformed scouts helping folks out, from shoveling the walks of an elderly person, to stopping to fix flats, to rendering first aid, that the folks being helped were able to identify their helpers as scouts without ever being told they were. THIS is what we should be striving for - more than trying to get our scouts to wear the full and proper uniform - to really bring home the "Do a Good Turn Daily" slogan - something I feel has been sorely lacking for some time. Oh, and Beavah? "...align us with culturally gay fashion sense." Care to explain how a straight fashion designer that borrowed liberally from the French military uniform of the 70's (is it any wonder a lot of African uniforms look like the BSA uniforms?), changed the colors, and called it his own, did that?(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

Well, if I were about to cross over to Wood's troop and could do one pull up and new that his line in the sand was "if you do zero, come back and do one, if you do one, come back and do two", I would deliberately do zero, and I would pretty much deliberately do far less than what I was capable of on the other things, especially that stupid standing long jump requirement. You really have boys that still have the Scout joining patch (it's not a rank) after three years because of this requirement? I'm surprised that they're even still active in your Troop, just as I am surprised that Concerned's son is still involved in Scouts, let alone any of the other cross-overs that haven't advanced in the past few years. I look at this requirement as a whole - I don't believe the requirement says show improvement in EACH of the activities...after 30 days. It says show improvement in the activities after 30 days. So if I were to see something like this: 10. Record your best in the following tests: Current results Push-ups __5__ Pull-ups __1____ Sit-ups __25____ Standing long jump (__3___ ft. __10___ in.) 1⁄4-mile walk/run _____3 mins, 10 seconds_______ 30 days later Push-ups __10____ Pull-ups __1____ Sit-ups __50____ Standing long jump (__3___ ft. __8__ in.) 1⁄4-mile walk/run ___3 mins_______ Then I'm seeing improvement in the activities and I'm signing off on it. Why? Because any decent athletic trainer/coach will know that with 30 days practice on a lot of things, you're going to see faster improvement on some things and slower or no improvement on others - If the 30 days are spent just practicing one of those activities, there should be improvement in just that one activity, but that's not what we're asking here - we're asking for general improvement. As for the slip back in standing long jump - that first 3'10" could have been a "record" for the lad when 3'8" is a more realistic measurement - practicing helps create and perpetuate the normal, the "record" comes with much more time than 30 days. Michael Phelps doesn't swim at record setting paces when he practices - we shouldn't be expecting our Scouts to be practicing at record setting jumps every day (in other words, that whole standing long jump requirement is just plain dumb).

How about ALFAB (Al Fresco Abilities)

It's interesting - you fall into the camp that a Scout has to show mastery of a skill before being signed off on - that there should be certain standards that need to be met by all First Class scouts, by all Eagle Scouts, etc., which is exactly what the BSA has done yet you concentrate on the other variable to argue that the BSA isn't a franchiser like McDonalds. The BSA is exactly like the McDonalds corporation because it's materials focus on the process to create a limited end product. A McDonald's operation manual details the steps in making a Big Mac. The BSA details the steps in making a First Class scout. It is this process that I find to be similar. What you're focusing on is essentially the building. Throughout the US, most McDonalds are physically different - different configurations, different signage - all as a result of the needs of their "chartered partner" and community. Yet despite so many McDonalds looking so different from each other, they still churn out the same product from coast to coast precisely because of their Operations Manual. Yes, our COs and Scout are different, but if we follow the "operations manuals" that the BSA provides it's "franchisees", then regardless of any other differences, a First Class scout in Barrow, Alaska will be able to tie the same knots as a First Class scout in Key West, Florida. That is the point of my notion that, in a lot of respects, the BSA is as much a franchiser of a product as McDonalds is.

Seattle, I think its interesting that there were, at the outset, 2 possible ways for the discussion to diverge, and that in this case, the discussion diverged both ways - Congrats on the Double! We've had discussion on the role of the UC in regards to BORs. I've not seen anything from the BSA that states that a UC can't sit on a BOR for a member of a unit that the US serves - but it wouldn't surprise me at all if that is something that folks have been trained to believe. Your unit asked for help and you, as a friend to the unit, gave it when they needed it, and helped them keep a lad's advancement on track - something they were activley insuring by asking for your help in the first place - and it gave you one of the Scout's view of the Troop - My opinion? Great Job! As for the Advancement Policy, you're right - you're covered as a non-committee member because it does have an out. Don't worry about that part. Scoutfish, My hunch is that the nagative reaction to a "mock" BOR is that it's just not traditionally done, and unless there is a really compelling reason for holding one (and I think of a couple of limited reasons that a practice BOR might be held - for instance, a lad on the Autism spectrum who might not handle a BOR with strangers, as opposed to the adults he already knows, very well). I believe the program already provide 5 "practice" BORs for the Eagle Scout BOR - I call them BORs for Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star and Life. But, that all being said, I don't recall seeing any specific proscription against having a practice BOR so if it works for you, ok! All - I've always come at these issues from a perspective that, whenever I post it, I get immediate flack for it from people who think I'm nuts. But I'm going to try again. The Boy Scouts of America is one of the country's biggest Franchisers - the only difference between the Boy Scouts of America and McDonalds is that the BSA is non-profit and McDonalds is not. Every time the BSA signs a charter agreement, they are issuing a franchise to that chartering organization which has agreed to provide the Boy Scout program as provided by the Boy Scouts of America. All of those guides and handbooks are the program as set out by the Boy Scouts of America. All those guides and handbooks are no different from the operations manuals that McDonalds puts out to their franchisees. I've seen those manuals - I've lived those manuals (I was a fast food restaurant manager for both Jack-in-the-Box and McDonalds - they both have these manuals). There are specific instructions and steps a person needs to take to make a Big Mac. There are specific instructions and steps a person needs to take to become First Class. If a franchisee decides to leave out the middle bun, or the secret sauce, the Big Mac is no longer a Big Mac. If a unit decides to leave out a requirement for First Class because they think they know better, then it is no longer the First Class rank - at least not of the Boy Scouts of America - maybe its a Troop BBB first class rank, but it's not the Boy Scouts of America rank. Why does McDonalds have such detaile rules? So that not matter where you are, when you buy a Big Mac, it's the same, from Maine to California. The Boy Scouts is the same way - an Eagle Scout in Florida and and Eagle Scout in Montana will have completed the same requirements - the only differences will be in merit badges earned and what was done for a project. Like McDonalds, the BSA also allows a way for its franchisees to alter the program within certain guidelines. A unit can't change the basics (just like a McD's franchisee can't change the make-up of a Big Mac and still call it a Big Mac) but they can do things like the LDS has done and use Boy Scouts for 11-12, Varsity for 13-15 and Venturing for 15 and above - perfectly acceptable and well within the guidelines. A McDonalds Franchisee doesn't have to offer everything on the menu that McDonalds offers - thus the "at participating McDonald's" you hear at the end of a commercial. It would be stupid for a franchisee not to sell Big Macs, but they might decide not to sell McRibs when they have the chance, or not to sell the breakfast burritos if they aren't a big seller in their area. Bottom line - Irving, over a period of many, many years, has developed a program that works very well when you follow the program. Are there times when a unit might have problems finding people to fill all the roles? Undoubtably, but the first answer to that should be finding someone to fill the role rather than lets just wing it.

These lists have been ordered released in two other states - and the fears were the same, to wit "lawsuit city, here we come" - and yet there hasn't been any reporting of large numbers of lawsuits as a result of those releases - so why the Chicken Little act now?

Great info on "Old Glory" - Thanks for that!

An earlier story has it that Martin Sheridan, a team captain of the US olympic team at the 1908 Summer Olympics in London refused to dip the flag to King Edward VII allegedly saying "This flag dips to no earthly king". In answer to the trivia question - I'd guess what makes it unique is it was a 15 striped flag. Both a star and a stripe were added to the flag when the first two states to join the union after the merican Revolution (Vermont and Kentucky). The next iteration dropped it back to 13 stripes, probably because someone realized that 5 states were being added with a lot of territory left to become states.(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

Fine as an optional program for parents to use with their children if they wish. As a unit activity? It wouldn't even be on my radar since we don't have computers and don't control access to computers for the lads. I wouldn't require anyone to earn it - I would just provide the information to the scouts and their parents - and if they wanted the patches, they can pay for them. I'd rather a troop promote the National Outdoor Awards program over this.

My first reaction is an unqualified Yes! My second reaction is a Yes! but.... Given the merit badge (small boat sailing) and the limits of summer camp, might I suggest that the Scout-like thing to do would be to approach the MB Counselor and ask politely if he will accept you in his merit badge sessions provided that the class hasn't filled up. In other words, avoid taking a spot that someone who hasn't yet earned the merit badge and wants to sign up would have otherwise gotten had you not taken that space - give the lads who haven't earned the badge first shot even if you're first in line. There is a chance that the class won't fill up and the counselor can take you in - but there's a pretty good chance that the class will fill up. Don't be afraid to ask the MBC if he can give you a refresher in boat handling so you can take the boats out during free time if the sessions do fill up (at my camp, the sailing master (that's what we called him) was always glad to help someone with rusty skills polish them up). You might also want to take a read through the merit badge book again, just to familiarize yourself with the terms and safety rules again. Oh - and if the sessions do fill up, the counselor will be far more likely to give you those refresher lessons if you accept that with a cheerful demeanor and not go storming off because you're disappointed.

I will be very surprised if they say the outings done as a Venturing crew member don't count. Why do I say that? Because the National Medal for Outdoor Achievement, which is part of the NOA program, specifically states for one of it's requirements regarding planning and leading an outing (requirement 7) that with the unit leader's permission, you can plan the outing for "another Cub Scout pack, Boy Scout troop, Varsity Scout team, Sea Scout ship, or Venturing crew." I also see nothing in any of these requirements that say the requirements have to be done on a troop, team, patrol or squad outing - they only have to be done on outings under the "auspices of the Boy Scouts of America". A Sea Scout Ship and a Venturing Crew are programs under the "auspices of the Boy Scouts of America". The only restriction is that you must be a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout to earn these - you can't earn them as a Cub Scout, Venturing Crew member or Sea Scout. Your unit leader is a wise one - he's read and understands the requirements - and he's the one that is going to award this to your son.

Do the foil dinners - but have a back-up plan (you're 15 minutes from home, and if it's the Moraine View I'm thinking about, you can always have pizza delivered cause Le Roy isn't that far away). Don't worry about the free time - you're there less than 24 hours and some of the activities you've planned are kind of like free time anyway - and hour ad 15 minutes for fishing? Fishing IS free time. Don't tell the lads you're working on the Volleyball Loop - just tell them you're going to learn and play volleyball - will you earn it that night? Might be cool to give them the loops at that nights fire. Do you have room in your campfire program for Smores? I tend to agree on the Readyman/FIrst Aid work - if the day was longer, I might keep it in, but it seems it's an hour of "classroom" learning in the great outdoor on a short camping trip - Maybe go on a hike instead - an hour is about as long of a hike that you'd want to take anyway. I really like the Leave No Trace work after the camp has broken down and adter lunch - good call! Make sure you have an alternative to PB for any Scouts that might be allergic (but you have a small group so maybe you already know everyone is good). I think you have an excellent plan - now the second most important thing you need to try to do is to not be a clock tyrant. Hopefully, everyone will meet at the school parking lot at 4:15 but someone is bound to be running just a little late. Hopefully you can leave at 4:30 but who knows what will come up. 45 minutes seems like enough time to set up camp but things happen. Just Be Prepared for the schedule to get just a bit sideways on you - and you can alwsys try to make up time elsewhere. So what is the most important thing? HAVE FUN - and that means YOU too!

"Civilians were not allowed to display the flag on private property." That's not my understanding - it wasn't traditional to do so (until 1860, after Fort Sumter) but there were no laws against civilian use of the flag. I know that there are folks that will say that only the military could fly the flag because the only laws regarding how the flag was to be flown was directed at the military, and mostly said the rules were up to the Commander in Chief but the failure to mention civilian use doesn't prevent civilians from flying the flag. In 1860, in the patriotic ferver gripping the North after the fall of Sumter, flags began popping up all over (just like what happened after 9/11/2001). In 1861, the first mass production of flags began (another reason it wasn't common before 1861 - no mass production so flags were expensive). We've never looked back.

First: Never Admit Culpability. I know we are Boy Scouts and it might not jive with the Scout Law but Never Admit Fault - not verbally, not in writing - ever. If you do, even if insurance will fully cover a windshield replacement, it gives the insurance company a way to come back at you for their out of pocket because you admitted that you were at fault. Call the police and make sure a report is filed. Exchange insurance information (if you happen to have yours - most people won't - at the very least, exchange name, addresses and phone numbers. Never offer to pay for the replacement - anything could have broken that window and that crack could have been there when she pulled up. It may very well have happened at your car wash if the window was particularly hot and was hit by cold water but in that case, a strong case could be made that the reason the windshield cracked was because the windshield was defective. Again, leave it to the insurance company. It's a smart idea to inform your CO or however holds your insurance policy just to give them a heads up. Then clam up and don't talk about it to anyone until you have to. BTW - Welcome to the forum

My advice - you go to your Scoutmaster and tell him you've run out of ideas for tying to get those last couple of lads to settle down and pay attention when it's time for them to sit quietly and listen and that instead of helping you come up with solutions, the SPL has threatened to remove you from the position of PL instead. Then you run against the SPL next time elections come up.

The Committee takes input from the PLC/Scoutmaster and develops the budget - hopefully by consensus (honestly, if your committee members can't make these kinds of decisions without taking a formal vote and without so-called "bylaws", then y'all may as well just close up shop now and go find something that doesn't take any effort, like staring blankly at American Idol). If your "bylaws" don't have a statement of who the "members" are and who can vote to change the "bylaws", then you don't have bylaws, you just have a piece of paper without any meaning. Know what that does for you? It makes it real easy to just tear up those "bylaws" and go back to doing things the way Scouting units did for decades before the "Unit Lawyers" got cute and decided they needed to create "bylaws".

"Is that single guy down the street a Distinguished Eagle Scout Award recipient?" For the sake of the hypothetical - Yes.

"I think the question should be "Why not Mike Rowe?"" Good looking, single man about 50 years old, was a professional opera singer, lives in San Francisco, never married, claims a girlfriend but has never been photographed with her and just a bit too obvious in making a point of talking about "hot women". Not saying he is but if that described the single guy down the street that wanted to help with a local troop, I think there would be an awful lot of people, in this forum no less, making negative assumptions about the persons suitability based on orientation, perceived or not.

We don't need to add any new committee positions. We simply need to add a sentence to an already existing job description. In the Cub Scouts, the Cubmaster's job description includes this line: Help establish and maintain good relationships with Boy Scout troops. It seems to me that the Scoutmaster's job description should mirror this and include the line: Help establish and maintain good relationships with Cub Scout packs. After all, if we're expecting the top program person in Cub Scouts to help establish and maintain good relationships with Boy Scout troops, shouldn't we expect the top program person in Boy Scouts to do the same?

First, take all the rank requirements and write them on a big scoll without writing down the ranks - write them all down in one place. Then write down all the requirements of the required merit badges (you choose which ones you want to include when there is a choice) without writing down the names of the merit badges. Next, randomly choose enough merit badges to fill out the electives (put the names in a hat and choose by lot, or eeny-meeny-miny-moe them or whatever - but make it random (though you can probably make Basketry one of them since it seems almost everyone earns that one at summer camp) then write down all the requirements of those merit badges without writing down the names of the merit badges. Once your done with that, make sure you add "meet with adults in a BOR 6 times and the Scoutmaster 6 times" then stand back and look at the list. Then come back and tell us that Eagle is too easy.

Well Beavah, I'd go over what the Boy Scouts means by Scoutmaster Approval - that short of a Scout not being capable of earning a particular badge at that point in his life (which should be a conversation that goes something like "Gee, 10 1/2 year old Billy who wants to take Climbing Merit Badge but has never climbed before in your life, that merit badge requires a bit of upper body strength that you just don't have yet and I'd hate to see you start it then quit it because you aren't able to do the work yet - maybe you should do it in a couple of years and build up to it") means the Scoutmaster affirms that the lad is registered and has spoken with the Scoutmaster about working on the merit badge, but you'll just not agree with what the BSA says it means and shoot the messenger. Of course, that's precisely WHY the BSA not only says that a Scout must have approval from his Scoutmaster but then goes on to explain what they mean by approval, so we don't have to nitpick about what they heck it means. Either follow the policy, or don't and admit you aren't following policy instead of justifying why you aren't following it.

Here is the Cubmaster's role (From the BSA's website): Conduct a pack program according to the policies of the BSA. Complete Cubmaster Fast Start Training and position-specific Basic Leader Training. Attend monthly roundtables. Plan and help carry out the Cub Scout program in the pack. This includes leading the monthly pack meeting, with the help of other leaders. Help the pack committee with a year-round recruitment plan for recruiting boys into Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouting, and Webelos Scouting. Know about and use the appropriate and available literature, including Boys' Life and Scouting magazines, Cub Scout Program Helps, and the Webelos Leader Guide. See that the pack program, leaders, and Cub Scouts positively reflect the interests and objectives of the chartered organization and the BSA. Work with the pack committee on (1) program ideas, (2) selecting and recruiting adult leaders, and (3) establishing a budget plan. Guide and support den leaders. See that they receive the required training for their positions. Help organize Webelos dens and encourage graduation into a Boy Scout troop. Help establish and maintain good relationships with Boy Scout troops. Maintain good relationships with parents and guardians. Seek their support and include them in activities. Involve male relatives such as uncles and grandfathers so that Cub Scouts will have additional male role models. See that Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, and Webelos Scouts receive a quality, year-round program filled with fun and activities that qualify the dens and pack for the National Summertime Pack Award. Guide Cub Scouts in goodwill and conservation projects. See that the responsibilities specified for the assistant Cubmaster are carried out. Help the pack committee chair conduct the annual pack program planning conference and the monthly pack leaders' meetings. Work as a team with the pack committee chair to cultivate, educate, and motivate all pack leaders and parents or guardians in Cub Scouting. Take part in the charter review meeting and annual charter presentation ceremony. Request den chiefs for all dens and, after selection, see that they are trained. Recognize the den chiefs at pack meetings. Conduct an impressive graduation ceremony for Tiger Cubs. Meet with the unit commissioner, Webelos den leader, and Scoutmaster to establish plans for the Webelos Scouts' transition to Boy Scouting. Help plan and conduct impressive Webelos graduation ceremonies involving parents and guardians, the Scoutmaster, the Webelos den chief, the Webelos den leader, and the troop junior leaders. Conduct impressive Arrow of Light Award ceremonies. Encourage high advancement standards for all Cub Scouts. Help bring families together at joint activities for Webelos dens (or packs) and Boy Scout troops. Support the policies of the BSA. I don't see anything in there about maintaining a close relationship to the COR or reporting to the chartered organization, do you? I don't see anything in there about working with the chartered organization to provide a safe meeting place, do you? I don't see anything in there about providing a training program for adult family members, do you? I don't see anything in there about managing the finances, do you? I think you need to print out both "job descriptions" again, and instead of trying to split them up between the CC and the CM - have the CC do the stuff on the list for the CC and the CM do the stuff on the list for the CM. Where there truly is overlap (ie Support the Policies of the BSA), then both of them do it. The key is, both the CC and the CM have different responsibilities, and if they meet the responsibilities for their own job descriptions, a bit of magic happens - they magically end up supporting each other, and the entire unit, without having to struggle to work at it. Print out that CM job description and hand it to your ACM - tell him those are the responsibilities and everything on the other list will be yours - and that might change his mind. Another little hint - let him recruit an ACM that he can delegate some of those Cubmaster responsibilities to and while he's doing that, you recruit and Assisitant Committee Chairman to delgate some of the CC duties to. Try it - it works - and you'll wonder why you never insisted that the prior CM do it the Cub Scout way all along.