CalicoPenn

So I just tried to post something in another thread and get a "the answer to the random question was not answered correctly" What random question? There was no random question! I'm done - it's been fun, but it's time to move on. I didn't like New Coke, I don't like New Scouter Forum. So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Has any one else noticed an issue with the "membership" categories? I'm listed as a Junior Member with 2274 posts, Basement Dweller has 4261 posts and is listed as a Junior Member. BadenP has 2545 posts and is listed as a Junior Member. Kbandit with 217 posts is listed as a Senior Member. GKlose with 948 posts is listed as a Junior Member. And that's just a few examples. Also, I was just in the the most current Scout Account's thread and my thread post is missing. Actually, it's there, along with a response, but my post is blank while the response is not. My responses to other comments in the thread are there. There's no note saying it was edited, and if it was edited, I don't know why it would have been.

I'm all for a change - let's use the Star Trek Model Gold (Command): All Youth Members (after all, the most important people in the organization are the youth) Blue (Sciences): All Volunteers (the ones that actually run this little science project we call Scouting) Red (Support - the guys that get killed on landing parties): All Professionals

Anyone remember that poster that came in a few months back wanting to know how to get a hold of Terry with suggestions to improve the site? I'm just wondering if he's the one we should thank for breaking something that didn't need to be fixed.

Well, if he's raising money on his own, mowing lawns shoveling sidewalks, selling greeting cards, then the money he earns should go into a personal savings account that he can use for his Scouting expenses. No one will have an issue with that. If, on the other hand, he's selling popcorn, or pancake breakfast tickets, or wreaths, as part of a fundraiser arranged by the unit, and he's telling folks he's earning money for HIM to go to camp, then he's raising funds under the auspices of a non-profit for personal gain, and it's not allowed. On the other hand, if he's saying he's earning money for the Troop to go to camp, then he's raising money for the Troop, and not for himself. But, to make sure the Troop doesn't run afoul of the personal gain clauses in the tax code, the Troop should, if they intend to use the money to send folks to summer camp, apportion the funds set aside for camp equally amongst all the folks going to camp, regardess of the amount of time, effort, or funds raised they may have contributed during the funding drive. The only Scout Accounts that can work are those in which the Scout deposits x-amount of his own money with the Troop every week or month for the unit to hold onto for his Scouting expenses and the only way I would do that as a Unit would be with the funds deposited in a separate savings account that isn't touched until a withdraw is needed to pay for a Scout's needs. Even then, with banking laws the way they are today, I'm not even sure I'd want to take on that kind of responsibility. In the long ago days, Scouts were not only encouraged to be thrifty, they had to prove it up - and maybe it's time we get back to that again. There are very few banks anymore that do the old fashioned Christmas Club account, but there is nothing that prevents us, as mentors and leaders, from telling Scouts they need to open up a savings account and bring in their passbooks every once in a while to show that they are adding funds to their savings accounts.

I have to fundamentally disagree. Summer camp is an opportunity provided by the Boy Scouts to the Scout. Any benefit a Troop gets from a lad attending summer camp is incidental to the larger benefit a lad gets by attending summer camp. Scouts are the population being served by the Boy Scouts of America - let's not suggest that by being active in their Troop, they are volunteering to provide service to the Troop.

No - read the bill - only organizations exclusively organized as a public charity youth organization are affected. A churches youth group is not generally a public charity youth organization. They are organized under their church and generally do not have a separate legal identity.

Is there a National document? You mean from the BSA? I don't know but I have heard from many folks that said that their DE's and other Council folks encourage Scout Accounts. If, on the other hand, you mean Federal, then yes, there is a national document - it's called the US Tax Code. Let's see what the IRS has to say about it: A June 2011 directive to IRS field agents issued by Lois Lerner, the IRS director of exempt organizations, stated “if a booster club confers benefits on a participant in return for his/her fundraising activities, such as crediting amounts raised by a participant toward that participant’s dues requirement, or by crediting amounts raised against the cost of a trip, the booster club is providing a private benefit to that participant. Consequently, such practices could result in the organization failing to be described in § 501©(3).†The IRS has also rejected recent applications for tax-exemption of youth athletic organizations on this same premise. Will they come after Scout units? Do you want to risk it? Solution? Collect spending deficits from current Scouts. Zero out all other accounts now. Hold a couple of fundraisers (car washes, bake sales, whatever it takes) between now and Summer Camp to cover the potential cost of your "moral obligations", then never, ever, have Individual Scout Accounts again.

We celebrate President's Day with mattress sales. Perhaps we can celebrate Copernicus' birthday with small appliance sales.

Pack, Hate to say it but you're wrong about the rapture as well. It happened, as predicted, on October 22, 1844. Just ask the Bahai'i.

Pack, Hate to say it but you're wrong about the rapture as well. It happened, as predicted, on October 22, 1844. Just ask the Bahai'i.

I thought about responding to each point but frankly most of your questions and concerns are based on a flawed initial premise in the first place - that homosexuality is intrinsically about sex - that it's just not worth it. Instead, I would ask, how will you deal with people that show such an abundance of ignorance that they come up with this kind of bigotry cloaked in "concereed questions".

A Scout is Brave. A BSA Executive Board Member?? Not so much.

Edna at Supply has asked me to remind all you Supers - NO CAPES!!!

True - it's not 25 out and 25 back - but it's 50 as one distinct activity. If they were to sail 10 miles, drop anchor, then spend the next few days using the boats dinghy or raft to do 30 miles worth of day trips, then sail back 10 miles, I would not count that as a 50 mile sailing trip.

It sounds to me as if 3g is the better fit. And though, if it were me, I would accept the hauling a sled in skis as eqiuvalent of backpacking, I don't think I would accept 20 miles of day hikes from a base camp as backpacking - I think the intent is that the backpacking would be 20 miles so if they covered 20 miles while hauling the sled might satisfy the requirement, but hauling the sled 6 miles to a base camp then doing a lot of day hiking doesn't quite meet it. I wouldn't accept someone backpacking 5 miles to a site in the summer then day hiking 15 miles as 20 miles of backpacking, and it being a winter activity wouldn't change that.

So I connected all the dots and came up with: Obama Derangement Syndrome

"Whooeeee, good thing the 2nd amendment let me have a gun, stabbing Lincoln would have been a real pain in the tuchus" - John Wilkes Booth

Oooooh - I've been waiting for an opportunity to present itself on the subject of handedness to say this: We are all ambidexterous. Don't believe me? If you're right handed, which hand do you use to trim your right hand fingernails (and vice-versa for left handed folks).

Requirements always relate to current requirements. If cooking was required now, then yes, it could be used as a required badge. But if cooking is not on the current list of required merit badges, then it doesn't count as a required merit badge yet. At first glance, it sure does seem like it would be frustrating for the lads but I would ask a Scout frustrated by this if the only reason he's working on merit badges is for advancement and does that mean he won't take a badge that interests him because he's already got the number of elective badges he needs for Eagle?

:::hanging head in shame:::

Have they given the Scouts the new patch? Then it should be replaced. But it's still no reason to withhold an SMC or BOR. Who said the SMC couldn't go on? The SM? He's the only one that gets to make that decision. Unfortunately, you're not likely going to be able to change this culture - so either you need to find a new unit, leave Scouts, or just follow the dictates of the dictators. The only other alternative is to become the Chartered Organization Rep at which time you can gather the committee members and program leaders in a room, tell them that they will follow the policies from now on, that they will never pull a stunt like this again, or they can head for the door as their services are no longer required if they don't agree. Unless you're a member of the CO and best buds with the head of the CO, this plan is unlikely to happen. I had the same thought as OGE - is it any wonder we have threads asking about why it's so difficult to keep older Scouts involved and active? (This message has been edited by calicopenn)

Pack - the words are actually "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" which has been interepreted by SCOTUS to be an associative right that not only gives one the right to gather and assemble in protest, but to join associations and associate with like-minded people.

First, talk to the CO - you don't have to wait for the "decision" by National - it's coming down the pike so go ahead and get in front of it. Get the answers from your CO now, before the parents start to ask. I suspect that if the CO says they would prefer not to have gay scouts and gay leaders, you aren't going to see much change in your Troop now. Your issue will become future recruiting as folks coming in start to ask the "is your Troop welcoming" question as they start looking for a fit for their sons and family. Know upfront that whatever your answer is, you're going to win some and lose some - don't take it personally. If the CO says yes, then you may or may not have an issue with current Scout families. For those that decide to leave, just be friendly and helpful and let them kow you'll be glad to give them a great reference to their new Scoutmaster and will quickly transfer any advancement records on. Take the attitude on your side that you will part friends. If they want to be uncivil about it, don't take it personally, remain civil, and know that it's all about them. I don't think you need to have a big meeting to find out how people think. Those that care are going to let you know - those that don't care aren't going to say anything because it just doesn't matter to them either way. I suspect that the vast majority of Scouting families just don't care either way - and they certainly don't care about what folks in other units think. It's been 40 years since Stonewall - it's taken 40 years for society to get to this point. It's gotten to this point because more and more people know more and more gay and lesbian people as people, not as a distant concept. When push comes to shove, people care about people, they care about the people they know. When the Council tossed out the lesbian mother from her den leadership position, the folks in her Pack were devestated because they knew that woman, her partner, and their son, and they liked them. They didn't care about "National Policy", they cared about people. Tenting: Stop making an issue of it - this is an adult hang-up. You've already said, quite rightly, that as far as the boys, there is no sexuality. Let the boys handle it if it ever comes up - no need for some pre-emptive policy. On this issue, trust me, the boys will be far more mature about it than the parents will be. Integration? Oh for heaven's sake - didn't we already go through that when black units and Jewish units were integrated into summer camps and camporees? Haven't we already learned that it doesn't actually change anything? Honestly, if a unit starts to complain that they don't want to camp next to a unit with a gay leader, tell the unit to stay home - why let them infect the rest of the camp with their idiocy?

My question would be "Why is it ok for some to demand their freedom of association within their units but it's not ok when others that don't have the same beliefs get the same freedom of association?" Sheldonsmom (and I have to say, I picture Laurie Metcalf whenever I read your posts) I don't think it's much to do with anti-conservative feelings as it is to our general reaction as Americans, whether we're conservative, liberal, populist, moderate, progessive, libertarian, to folks who say they are going to take their ball and go home. The American response is to just shrug our shoulders, say, "okay, don't let the door slap you in the behind on the way out" and get on with our business. If you were to take the time (and it would be mind-numbing) to cruise through the entirety of these forums going way back, even in the non-political threads, you'll see conservatives and liberals saying essentially "Okay, bye-bye, see-ya, don't let the door hit you" to people claiming they're going to leave, and in many cases, conservatives and liberals joining together to tell folks that. At the point someone threatens to leave, we really just don't care if they're conservative, liberal, straight, gay, man, woman, child - most of us are adults and most of us recognize manipulative tactics when we see it - and the "see ya, have a good life" response is someone verbalizing our collective yawn.