CalicoPenn

What does the DRP have to do with the lifting of the ban on gay scouts? No everyone that is religious and believes in God agreed with the policy on banning gay scouts or that the DRP justified a ban on gay scouts. The BSA started getting in to trouble not because they had a DRP and a Scout Law that said a Scout is Reverent but because they bowed to some religions interpretation of the Bible and the DRP while ignoring other religions interpretations. In essence, they were violating the Scout Law by letting some heavy hitters make the decision of what it meant instead of pointing out that the BSA had never before defined what God's words meant or treated some religions with more respect than others rather than equally across the board. I remember when a major part of A Scout is Reverent meant that a Scout (and Scouters and Scouting) respected other religions - and not just Christians, Jews and Muslims respecting each other but Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Southern Baptists, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Mormons, etc. respecting each other too. The only thing this does is close the door on allowing atheists in (for now).

It seems we may need a reminder of who the G2SS is designed to protect. Ostensibly, the G2SS is designed to protect the Scouts and the Scout Leaders. Follow the G2SS and things should go just fine for everyone. But - the G2SS is not designed to protect Scouts and Scouters. It is designed to protect the corporation known as the Boy Scouts of America. It is designed to deflect liability back down to units and unit leaders. Scout drowns while swimming on a Troop campout - parents sue (of course naming the BSA - deepest pockets). Did you follow the G2SS and the Safe Swim Defense? If the answer is no, or even a tepid "well kinda", National's lawyers and insurance company can make a case that they provided you specific guidance and you failed to follow it, therefore their liability is limited. Why this language about no one on one both inside AND outside Scouting? Too many cases of Scout leaders molesting lads they know through Scouting on non-Scout related outings/meetings, etc. where the BSA is sued because the Scout leader met the lad through the Scouts and the BSA response of "The molestation took place on a non-Scout related trip" not being strong enough to absolve the BSA of some liability - but if the G2SS says that a Scout leader can't meet one on one with a Scout outside of Scouting, their case becomes stronger - the leader, who the BSA can prove took the online YPT class, has been warned - and now is violating the BSA policies as well as breaking the law. Lower liability for the BSA. Does that mean your son's BSA friend can't come over to your house if your the only adult there? Of course not - the BSA doesn't have police to enforce the G2SS and if a complaint is filed - unless there are criminal acts taking place - its doubtful it will really go anywhere.

Toaster Ovens - not gift baskets (fans of 90's television will get this reference).

I remember reading the original thread where the issue of the so-called feminist ruination of TLJ was reported on and decided to do a bit of web surfing about it. What I found was that there was a small group of people who were bent all out of shape that Poe Dameron got called out on the carpet (rightly I might add) for disobeying direct orders from a female superior by another female superior and they decided that Star Wars was being ruined by feminist politics. Other articles talked about this group of people and tried to make a connection between them and the gamer gate jerks (for those unfamiliar with gamer gate, it refers to male online game players who really hated girls and women playing online video games and cyber-stalked and harassed them - even to the point where they were harassing female game designers at gaming conventions. Considering that there are also people out there who were upset that Luke had a beard, that JJ Abrams killed off Han Solo, that there were too many Porgs in the movie, that there weren't enough Porgs in the movie, and that JarJar actually existed at some point, I considered the complaint with a liberal amount of sand. As for why Solo tanked? It's really doubtful that a small group of people upset that Poe Dameron got told has had any significant effect on the box office. The biggest complaint I heard about Solo is that it didn't have Han Solo in it. I get it - it's supposed to be about a young Han Solo but for forty years, Harrison Ford has been Han Solo. With the new Star Trek movies and Harry Potter being the possible exceptions, when movies change the actor who plays the main characters, they don't really tend to do well. In addition, Memorial Day weekends aren't what they used to be for movies and there was just a major Star Wars movie 6 months ago. But hey, if you want to blame a woman, who are we to argue - it says a lot more about you than it does about Star Wars and Disney.

During the week, I have my briefcase with me - it's more of a tech bag to hold my computer (a Microsoft Surface) but it's got lots of pockets where I carry a leatherman tool, a flashlight, a small personal first aid kit, eyeglass repair kit, eyeglass microfiber cleaning cloth, a bottle of acetaminophen, a digital camera with spare batteries and a charger, and a spare bandana. Pens, pencils and paper should go without saying. In my car I have two seat back organizers from Duluth Trading. One has a large first aid kit, a tool kit (wrenches, screwdrivers, etc.), a roll of tp (in a Ziploc), ice scrapers, a large flashlight (LED), spare batteries, extra ziplocs, a road triangle set (one of the new-fangled cloth kind), jumper cables, duct tape, a trowel, a space blanket (someone gave me one and it was a handy place to put it), a small umbrella (fits in a case about the length and width of a smart phone) and a micro-fiber towel. The other has pretty much everything I carry in my briefcase (except the computer and camera) and also a box of tissues, a plastic cup, a couple of books (I find short stories are best), spare batteries, a small High Spirit's flute, a small dinner set (small plate, knife, fork, spoon, paring knife, small cutting board, and cloth napkin), some paracord, some carabiners, and the most important thing - my Buddy Bison stuffed animal on a carabiner clipped to the organizer in such a way as to watch the world go buy as I'm driving. Ok - so maybe this is a little overboard but I do spend a lot of time in my car. Otherwise, when I'm hiking I carry a "Possibles Bag" - with the standard flashlight, spare battery, knife, first aid kit, a small bit of duct tape (in the first aid kit), etc. that a prepared Boy Scout would have.

I don't know that we really do know that. I know a number of them are all "Real Scouts" but it's also been my experience that some of the most ardent defenders of "Eagle Scout Standards" have never been Eagle Scouts themselves.

I think it's about time for both girls in Scouts and Venturers/Sea Scouts in OA . And since you did put it in I&P, but not necessarily meaning to open a can of worms, I'm looking forward to when the BSA finally gets out of the discrimination game altogether and allows agnostics and atheists to join. Arrow of Light, Eagle Scout, OA Vigil Honor, OA Chapter Chief, Lodge Vice Chief, National Camp School Day Camp Program, National High Adventure Base staff (Okpik before it became a Council/Unit program - and summer session), Assistant Scoutmaster, Scoutmaster, District Committee, Unit Committee and Merit Badge Counselor.

Mike Rowe is an actor with a degree in communications studies. His acting roles have given him a platform to make his opinions known but he has zero experience in running a multi-million dollar business. Yes, he is an Eagle Scout - his Eagle Scout Project was reading to the blind. Based on comments many have made in the past on this forum, if someone were to ask if reading to the blind would be a good Eagle Scout Project, most people would say no and lament about the quality of projects going downhill making the Eagle Scout rank less prestigious. Michael Surbaugh is an experienced administrator with the BSA, working his way up from DE. He has a degree in youth agency administration. He is also an Eagle Scout - unfortunately, there is no handy information about what his project was. I suspect that even Mike Rowe would say that Michael Surbaugh is better qualified to be CSE than he is.

Yep - I missed it - since its now in an appendix that deals mostly with working from heights and what the OSHA requirements are for doing so. Thanks for pointing it out.

The LDS is driving the LDS out of Scouting - not the BSA. The biggest growth area for the LDS is not in the USA - its overseas. The LDS has been using the BSA as its youth program for its convenience. It is no longer convenient for them because larger and larger chunks of their organization cannot access the BSA program so the LDS is creating their own program which will be consistent globally rather than have a BSA centered program in the states and a "separate but equal (??)" program overseas.

I have to ask - where-ever did the idea that a Cub Scout couldn't go out in a canoe with their parent? Canoeing is allowed in the Cub Scouts - they just can't canoe in moving water (aka a river or creek) or on float trips.

No youth drivers This has been true for a very very long time - at least since the 1970's - and now, many States actually have limits on the number of people a youth driver can have in a car. No skinny dipping This was pretty much true in most places back in the 1970's as well. Even the all-boys private (read Catholic) schools were ending the practice of swimming classes and practice without a suit back then. SM/SPL screen every song/skit We did this back in the 70's as well - though mostly to prevent embarrassing the Troop at a Summer Camp or Camporee campfire but it also made sure that skits weren't mean spirited or singling out any individual. No boxing I hate to break it to Mike Rowe but boxing wasn't allowed back when he was a Scout in the 1970's. No independent patrol overnights Patrols can certainly go camping on their own - they just need approval from their Scoutmaster and have appropriate adult leadership around. My patrol camped on its own every June - and always had a couple of adults on the troop who just sat back in camp and read (we did feed them) - we needed someone to drive us after all. No one-on-one contact, down to electronic correspondence And in what way is this a bad idea? Pioneering project height limits No longer in the G2SS - have at it. Power tool restrictions I'm not sure that this is a bad thing at all - at least not these days. Lets think about it - we moan and groan about all the adult volunteers we are able to attract who have no outdoor experience, don't seem to be interested in taking IOLs, and whose presence tends to "dumb down" the outdoor adventure aspects of the program. I would argue that the majority of our adult volunteers aren't experienced enough with power tools themselves to be able to safely teach and supervise 11 year olds in the use of power drill, let alone a circular saw. People get so bent out of shape whenever that dreaded, evil National announces something new - imagine the outcry if National were to put together a "Safe Power Tool" program? No PL sign-off in Scoutbook Who, at National, ever said a PL can't sign off a requirement in a Scout's handbook? Uh uh - this is a unit decision - that has infiltrated the far reaches of Scoutdom like a bad cold virus as people in their units make up their own rules then go on to District positions and then start training other people in the way's of their Troop instead of the ways of the BSA program.

Right you are - why, the BSA should be the leader is teaching youth how to shoot other people - not church youth groups. /s

Title IX does not apply to the membership practices of the Boy Scouts of America. That's actually in the regulations. It will apply ONLY to those parts of the program that received federal financial aid. For instance, Title IX would apply to the Soccer and Scouting program in those Councils that received HUD grants for the program. When it comes to the Cub Scout, Boy Scout or Venturing program, I do not believe that National, Councils or any local units receive any federal funding to support it so Title IX would not apply.

National can't fix youth retention issues. It truly has limited control on how individual CO's operate their units or how unit leaders operate their units. National provides the tools for local volunteers to run a successful unit program that attracts and retains members from 11 to 17. (Adjust to your age group program as needed). Then they pretty much rely on the first part of the Scout Law and trust that people will do it the right way. National can provide all the tools in the world but if people at the unit level don't bother to use them, then its really not National's fault. Unless people would prefer to have the BSA run on the Girl Scout model where the councils actually control the units, we, at the local level, have got to stop blaming National for membership losses and start looking in the mirror. Losing older scouts? In my experience, the units that lose most of their older Scouts are the units where the adults run and control things instead of trusting the boy-led program because, well - they just know better than the BSA. What can National do about membership losses? Exactly what it is doing - expanding the market. The Mormon church decided to create an internal youth group due to pressure from their "foreign" branches, where their growth is greatest. From a business perspective it makes perfect sense that the BSA would open their doors to girls to try to make up for that membership hit. Blaming National for a redirection of resources and efforts by a religious organization is blind to reality and unfair to National.

I always thought the soul of the program was the volunteers at the unit and district level that made it work either because of or despite National and Council priorities and despite any political differences that volunteers may have with one another. If the program has truly lost its soul, then that's a sad reflection on us, not on BSA corporate. People can claim that it was the BSA that left them, not the other way around, all they want but the fact is the BSA has made many changes over its existence and has marched ahead because of the volunteers who refused to take their ball and go home but stayed and adapted.

I still wonder the relevancy of a 1912 Royal Charter to an American organization founded in 1910.

You are confusing conservative with political parties - it was southern conservative democrats that opposed those rights.

We're the Boy Scouts of America - we don't have a royal charter so what's the point of bringing it up? As for the 1913 Scoutmaster handbook - my response is it doesn't matter what it says - the Scoutmaster Handbook has changed a number of times since 1913 - and it will change a number of times in the future. A Scoutmaster Handbook from 1913 is irrelevant to 2018. Like a physics or chemistry textbook from the 1960's, its now mostly just a window to the past - with many outdated concepts. You can probably even find a more contemporary Scoutmaster(s) Handbook that uses the word Boy a lot - and it will be superseded and outdated when the BSA simply replaces Boy with Youth. Society evolves - always has - there are things that were done 200 years ago that we would just not put up with anymore. There are things that were done 105 years ago that we would just not put up with anymore. Why should anyone be shocked if the BSA handbooks change to emphasis youth over boys? If that instrument that many consider to be the infallible word of G-D can change (spelled that way out of respect for others) to change Thou Shalt Not Kill to You Will Not Murder, then by goodness, the Scoutmaster Handbook isn't exempt from being changed.

They are waiting until next year so that some of the first female scouts to come into the Scouts BSA program will be crossing over from the Cub Scout program - that's how they've always said they envisioned the timeline. I've asked this numerous times - and no one has ever been able to answer - exactly how do you see the program itself (not the YPT stuff, not the logistics - the actual program - rank requirements, merit badges, camping/hiking/summer camp program) changing? What rank requirements will change? Will lashing be changed to macramé? Merit badges on cosmetology? All the girls I've talked to (current Venturers) have said they wanted to join the Boy Scouts because of the program that the BSA already has - they wouldn't want anything to change program wise.

Sounds great on paper but consider what might happen 3 or 4 years down the road when the Pack's Webelos, who are now used to being around girl cub scouts all decide to move to the Scout Troop that is linked with the Scout Troop the girls join - what will that do to your membership numbers?

I believe it might be a violation of YPT for boys to pee in front of other boys, let alone in front of girls. So the proper answer to "As a Scout" would be "heck no".

The majority of Americans just don't give a rats patootie about this - and that's always been the way of Americans - on just about every issue. I doubt if most of the people commenting in newspapers, on twitter, on facebook, etc. actually knows anything about the organization other than its name. Our population is over 300 million yet our membership numbers are about 2.5 million - that's what, about 0.8% of the population? Yeah - no one really cares.

This is just a summary of how conservatives think the world is blowing up because the Boy Scouts are allowing girls to join. They were wrong about the world ending when women and blacks were given the right to vote. They were wrong about the world ending when gays could officially be married. They are wrong about this too.