CalicoPenn

Does anyone elese find the irony in the suggestion that TLA relax their standards in order to provide an alternative to the LDS while bemoaning the change of standards in the BSA?

Stosh, I believe his point is that prior to now, the anti-gay policy prevented his tech company from matching donations and volnteer hours with the BSA and that this has now changed.

The College of Lake County is a public community college with 3 campuses, 227 full time faculty, 938 part time faculty and 30,840 students for the 2014/2015 school year. It is the third largest community college in the State of Illinois. He's not a lone voice on campus about this either - one of my good friends is an adjunct at this college and says the same thing about his students. It's not so much that the opinions are wrong but that no amount of presenting the facts will change people's opinion. A student says the moon is made of blue cheese and that's his opinion will never be convinced that the moon is in fact not made of blue cheese and the student insists that his opinion be respected.

I think we now have the answer to Rodney King's question and it's "No, we can't all get along".

Reads to me like a pre-curser to a marketing piece to churches from Trail Life suggesting they abandon the BSA ship for the floundering Trail Life.

Beyond the obvious that it is probaby some kind of orienteering patch, I'm unable to say where it comes from. It might be a custom made patch for an orienteering course or may be a generic patch found in a camping playset.

Thank you for the hard work you've put into this forum, and thanks also for providing the issues and politics campfire where we can discuss things with a bit more candor (much like after hours campfires at camp). I too will jump on the bandwagon and thank the moderators for the great job they do and I'll take it one step futher and thank all the posters on these forums for a sometimes funny, sometimes challenging and always entertaining set of conversations.

Yes, it's a Board of Review - Review, not Retest. Does anyone know why we have a Board of Review? It's part of Scouting History and it's tied in with how Troop Committees were recruited and operated through at least the 50's and into the 60's. Nowadays, most Troop Committees are made up of parents of Scouts or former Scouts in the Troop, but that wasn't always the case (and for the most part, that wasn't the case until the mid 1960's) Troop Committees used to be made up of leaders in the community and were recruited by a Neighborhood Commissioner (the precurser to the Unit Commissioner). The Neighborhood Commissioner would approach leaders in the community- a school principal, the local pasto, the chief of police, the neighborhood eye doctor, the local insurance man, the president of the bank, the editor of the local paper, and other civic and business leaders to form a committee whose job was to support the Troop in delivering it's programing by helping to raise funds, obtain and store equipment, recruit SM's and ASM's, etc. (pretty much what the committee should be doing today). The reason there were BOR's was two-fold - one was to give the Scouts an opportunity to brag about his latest adventures (and in the process, start learning skills that would hold him in good stead in interviews) to a group of important neighborhood leaders and the other was so that the committee could evaluate whether the unit they're supporting was delivering a good program. There was no re-testing done - it was just listening to the Scout's stories and reviewing the successes and failures of the program. Pretty simple - and it worked very well - and still does when done correctly.

Is this a parent? Are you ok with him/her? Is the CO ok with him/her? Parents do not register with councils and don't go through background checks - and most units don't have a problem with parents attending troop meetings or campouts/hikes, etc. as long as they aren't interfering with the program. It seems unusual that the BSA would take a stance like that for a financial crime. Unless the BSA is going to kick the son(s) out of the program too, there really isn't much they can do if an unregistered parent is helping out. S/He can't wear the uniform and to help keep questioning to a minimum, it might be best if S/He didn't help the Troop out at distict/council events but as long as the CO has no issues with the person and you're all comfortable with the person, then I'd accept the help from the parent. If this person is not a parent of a Scout, then I'd probably just say "sorry, our hands are tied"

I can't see a reason why he couldn't have an ECOH in both locations. The BSA doesn't have any rules saying you can only have one, they have very few rules about Eagle COH's at all - if someone wanted to throw a weekend camping party as their Eagle COH, they could do that. Some Scouts might even be awarded the medal at a formal Troop COH and then later, have it re-presented at a family planned COH. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that some Scouts that are children of divorce have had two different COH's with both of the families and perhaps both of their units - nor would it surprise me if this happened 40 years or more ago. If people on both coasts want to celebrate this Scout's success, and it takes two COH's to get it done, then go for it.

The CO said their unit would allow gay leaders - the folks in the unit said they didn't like that - part of local option is that the members of the units also have the right to move on to a unit more to their liking - and the leaders of that unit have a responsibility to either accept the CO's decision or to move on as well rather than undermining the CO's authority in these matters. So the folks in the unit have all left, hopefully to find a unit or a CO that is a better fit to their own philosophies - in the meantime, the CO now has a lot of equipment and all of the funds in the bank account(s) which they can use to recruit new leaders who accept their philosophy. If the unit had "scout accounts", the only obligation the CO has to the former Scouts is to refund any funds that they directly deposited to their "scout accounts" - all other funds in the scout accounts get wiped out. Since there will be CO's that support the "pro-gay" stance, then why should the "pro-gays" get out? They have a home with a local chartered organization, just as the "anti-gays" will have. Frankly, the next step is to get rid of that stupid rule that bars athiests and agnostics from being part of the Boy Scouts of America.

So a question for you - how many of the Scouts that started the merit badge with this counseler completed the badge? Are there any lads from the other Troop having the same problem with him? If so, then not only is he denying the Scouts the opportunity to complete the badge (and adding to the requirements in doing so, by the way - more on that later) - he is embarrassing your Troop since your Troop is the one that provided him. Now as to adding to the requirements - the requirements of the Merit Badge do NOT require that the "testing" be done in front of the Merit Badge Counselor. In fact, they are written in such a way as to suggest that they be self-administered and they're written that way so that the merit badge can be accomplished at any time without being dictated by the counselors schedule and availability. Heck, a Scout could do the full 12 weeks and log everything and then not sit down with their counselor for a year to discuss the results and it still counts. I'll revise my earlier answer just a bit - I think you would be much better off recruiting someone else in your unit to be a Personal Fitness Merit Badge Counselor, make sure they understand how the program works, and get any of those Scouts with partials in front of him/her right away so that they can get the merit badges they deserve. I think it's also time for you to separate this counselor from your Troop until he's ready to come back, get trained, and do things the right way.

I suppose I should clarify my bad seeds comment - it was not meant to call those Troop leaders and Scouts bigots - I actually give them credit for voting with their feet. What I meant by it is that these folks were unable or unwilling to support the CO's vision - and it's much better for them to leave then to try run the Troop contrary to their chartered organizations wishes.

Some thoughts: You say your son plays the clarinet quite competently - and yes, a clarinet, as a reeded instrument, is going to play differently than a bugle, but my first question - perhaps something to ask your son, is "Did you (he) gain competency in playing the clarinet by practicing just once every few days?" Maybe he needs to up his practice time - even 15 or 20 minutes a day would be better than once every few days. His dad is a brass player and should be able to at least help out on the basics of how to play a brass instrument - but, sometimes sons have a hard time taking instruction from dad - I'm not saying that's true here, but it's much easier for both dad and son to get frustrated at each other when working on something like this. If your son is playing the clarinet, then it's sounds like he might be in a band - maybe he can ask his band leader for guidance. Maybe he can ask one of his trumpet playing buddies in the band for help learning how to play the bugle. Maybe you can hook him up with a bugle tutor. One of the most important parts of playing the bugle isn't learning how to play the bugle - it's learning how to play the bugle calls and that's something he can learn to do by playing on his clarinet - that way he can get the calls down and gain an understanding of how they should go. Challenge him to learn the big two by the end of the month - Taps and Reveille. Taps can sound beautiful on a clarinet. Once he's got those down, start plugging away at the rest. I'm going to answer #3 here before answering #2 because I have a proposal that folks might find radical in regards to #2 and want to end with it. As for #3 - as long as he's trying his best and hasn't been removed from the position, the time served counts - if he gives it up on his own 3 months in, he doesn't start over in a new POR. Heck, if he's removed from the position, the time he's already served still counts as POR time. So now for the radical suggestion - first, anyone in any POR should tell the SPL (not the Scoutmaster - the SPL appoints them, they report to the SPL) that a POR isn't working out for them as soon as they feel that they aren't benefitting the Troop. BUT in all cases, I would want to make sure that there is a way to create success out of perceived failure - I'd want to make sure the PL or Scribe or QM is getting the proper mentoring before accepting a Scout's resignation from a POR - but what to do about Bugler - the job seems simple - play the bugle calls at the appropriate times. Now here's the rub - for Bugling Merit Badge, it is required that the Scout play a Bugle in order to get the merit badge. For the POR, a Scout doesn't neccessarily have to play the Bugle in order to meet the requirements of the position - the BSA actually suggests that similar instruments can be used instead - so what's similar? I knew a lot of Troop Buglars who used their trumpets and cornets. I know of a Summer Camp bugler who used a tuba. I've heard of other Troop Buglars who have used trombones and french horns. In other words, similar instruments. Now we've just established that a clarinet is a reed instrument and therefore different than a bugle, but I also knew a person in high school who used his nice, shiny, brass saxaphone as his unit's bugler - and a saxaphone is also a reed instrument like a clarinet so if a saxaphone is similar enough to be used, then my opinion is so is a clarinet. So my suggestion? Approach the SPL (SM) with a proposal - to continue to try to learn how to use a bugle but to use his clarinet to perform the duties of the position.

Horizon - Thanks!! Desert - only the single funniest moment in movie history - Dan Ackroyd deadpanning "It's the stay-puft marshmallow man" (as Gozer the Gozarian). Bad Wolf - sounds like the CO has been spared the task of rooting out the bad seeds from their unit.

My thoughts are to find another merit badge counselor for the lad, and contact the District and/or Council Advancement Chair and tell them that this guy does not have the temperment to be a merit badge counselor. I would also contact every single scout troop in the District to tell them to steer clear of this guy.

The best take down of the States Rights argument I ever heard was an acknowledgement that "Yep - the Southern States fought the Civil War over State's Rights - specifically the State's Right to continue Slavery"

We had the rattiest lawn in the neighborhood growing up - but then we also had the only green lawn in August when the hot sun was beating down on folks lawns while there were watering restrictions in place.

It seems to be a bit johnny-come-lately to go to war over high tariffs when the Senators from the southern states had effectively dealt with just that issue 8 years before hand and when the southern states were no longer complaining about high tariffs because their representatives in DC had solved that problem. I've got to say I'm rather stunned that anyone wold suggest that original source material is just one opinion.

We're the Bulls and we like to nap - Go Bulldozers

I got most of them from a Star Trek museum in little Riverside, Iowa a few years back - they are cool to look at (and finally overtook the shark lodge flap from the Malibu Lodge that I have).

Actually, most people aren't flying the Confederate Battle Flag (aka the Battle Flag of the Northern Virginia Army). Even the flag on the South Carolina capitol building is not the Battle Flag. The flag on top of the General Lee? Not the Battle Flag. The Confederate Battle Flag is square, not a rectangle. Yes, that is an important distinction because there was also a rectangular flag during the Civil War of the same design - and it would not have been flown over a land battlefield. The rectangular flag, which is the one almost everyone flies, including South Carolina on their capitol building and the one painted on top of the General Lee, is the Confederate Navy Jack. Bad Wolf - I suspect it's only the Battle Flag/Navy Jack that's the big problem - and mostly because they were essentially museum pieces until the late 1950's and early 1960's when they re-emerged as semi-official flags of various southern governments that started flying them in response to the civil rights laws that these folks opposed. The crux of today's argument that the flag is a symbol of racism can be traced to that time in our history - prior to that time, while it was stained by the awfulness of slavery, it wasn't automatically associated with racism and hatred as it is today. I doubt most people would even recognize the National flags of the Confederacy.

Is it just me or do those "tar heels" on those patches look like women's high heel shoes of the "Music Man" era? My favorite council jamboree patches come from Iowa - home of Riverside, Iowa, which is, as anyone with any taste knows, is the birthplace of Captain James Tiberious Kirk. https://sites.google.com/site/2010nationalscoutjamboree/hawkeye-area-council

A gay scout getting married while wearing a confederate battle flag jacket in an AME church and serving up the last male Northern White Rhino in the world as the main course at a reception at a Donald Trump golf course would be one heck of a topic.