CalicoPenn

Quibble On! I have some of my own: "Can a youth identify himself as a Boy Scout when seeking donations for an Eagle Project?" Eagle Scout candidates are not subject to the rules listed in the unit fundraising application, which seems to be where you are getting your answer from. They are subject to the rules listed in the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Handbook. The ONLY germane limitation in fundraising is "Donors to projects must be made aware of what entity is benefiting from the project, and that it clearly is not the Boy Scouts of America." (The other fundraising limitations are that the project may not be a fundraiser, and any funds raised that are not used to purchase materials for the project must be returned to the donors). The project handbook does not, anywhere, say an Eagle Scout candidate cannot identify himself as a Boy Scout, or as working on his Eagle Scout service project, when soliciting donations for his Eagle Project. In fact, it would be near impossible for a Scout not to be identified as a Boy Scout when soliciting donations for an Eagle service project. It says that it must be made clear that he is not soliciting donations to the BSA. So, per Boy Scouts of America literature, the answer is Yes. How many elective merit badges must a scout complete to earn the Star Rank? The proper answer should be Two, and it all comes down to interpretation of the word Elective. When earning merit badges for Star rank, four of the merit badges must be Eagle required badges. The other two badges, by virtue of not being required to be of any particular kind of merit badge, are elective badges at the time of earning them. He is required to earn 4 Eagle required badges and 2 elective badges (even though he may elect to earn two more Eagle required badges as his elective badges). Further, the list of Eagle Scout required merit badges is not absolute. There are two instances of choices within the required badges: Emergency Preparedness or Lifesaving; and Swimming or Hiking or Cycling. There is nothing in the rules that says a Scout can't earn all of these badges, but he can only use one of each category as a required badge - the rest become elective badges (even though they are "required" and have the silver border). Eagle Scout is not a "graduation" - it is another step in the process. Each rank, though building towards the next, are also stopping points along the way, and should be considered as separate achievements. A baffler of a question would be "Can a Scout use Emergency Preparedness AND Lifesaving as two of his four Eagle required merit badges for Star rank?" (my answer would be no - as soon as one is earned, the other takes the "rank" of elective badge - your thoughts?) Since I'm not sure which answers I got "wrong", a couple possibilities might be who is responsible for advancement training and summer camp merit badges. I said the District Advancement Committee Chair, and committee, and the Council Advancement Committee Chair, and committee - through the Council Camping Chair and Committee (who is responsible for the Camp and Program Directors at camp). The Chairs of the committees have ultimate responsibility because they are the Chairs - so I stand by those answers. I'd like to see the list of knots (for both ranks) to see your interpretation of knots for each. How about a full listing of the answers you were looking for?

Not only can Webelos wear the Red Vest, but so can Boy Scouts! Its pretty common for Boy Scouts to wear the Red Vest, at least until they start earning enough merit badges to warrant a merit badge sash - then most Scouts tend to wear the merit badge sash without the red vest (so the merit badges aren't hidden). So go ahead an tell your Webelos' that they can wear that red vest with pride! Calico

Is there any way to get red vests to those in the unit that doesn't have one? Maybe its time to start a new tradition in the pack - felt isn't that expensive - maybe folks can make a red vest, given all the parts. Just a thought, though not really germane to this discussion. I like the idea of Cub Scouts walking in a parade with their red vests on - the brag vest should be considered part of the recruiting mission - a red vest with a bunch of patches on it shows non-cubs that the pack does a whole lot of neat things, and could be a gateway to getting a lad to join. On the other hand, you could suggest that Cubs just dress in uniform with no vests - as long as you understand that there will inevitably be an excited Cub Scout or two that just doesn't get the message and will probably show up wearing it. You'll have to decide what to do then - dampen the spirit of those Cubs by telling them not to wear it on the parade route, or let them wear it and have other Cubs who followed the rules wonder why they get special treatment. And what to do with the lads that show up in blue jeans, or wearing shorts (cause its hot outside). I'd be grateful if they all just showed up at least wearing the uniform shirt and neckerchief. I don't think the lads really care if their buddies are wearing a red vest, or blue jeans - They'll only care that they get to walk in the parade with their buddies. Calico PS - if you have Den Chiefs, and they aren't walking in the parade with their Troop(s), make sure to invite them to walk with the Pack at the parade too!

It is NOT important how other organizations, like the Military, view the Eagle Scout. If how the military views and reacts to the Eagle Scout rank will color your thinking of whether a lad should earn Eagle Scout or not, you should gracefully withdraw from the EBOR. So too, you should withdraw from the EBOR if you cannot, in good conscience, walk in with an open mind and open heart. If you have already made up your mind, based on your feelings about what the badge means, as opposed to what the requirements are, then you are doing a disservice to the Lad, to yourself, to the rank of Eagle Scout, and to the Boy Scouts of America. I can see the strong feelings you have towards the rank, and the importance you're placing on it. I see the pedestal you're creating for the rank. I can not fault you for that, but I urge you to review what the requirements for the rank are, not what you believe the requirements should be. I've noticed that most folks who have answered have been very consistent - it appears as if the lad has met the requirements, as written. Is there anything, other than "he wasn't active enough in the last couple of years" and "he hasn't camped enough" to make you consider him not worthy of the rank, because those two reasons just do not hold water. Please consider their advice carefully, it isn't lightly given. I've mentioned before, most of us who have earned the Eagle Scout rank have learned that the pedestal that's been created in the minds of the public doesn't really exist. Instead, Eagle Scout rank is another stepping stone on a journey of discovery. Calico

Why would the Unit Money Earning Application need to be added? There is nothing in these questions that speak to fundraising by Units, only by Eagle Scout candidates - and they aren't required to fill out Unit Money Earning Applications and the rules that apply to fundraising for Units do not apply to Eagle Scout Project fundraising. Calico

I'll give it a shot - if only to get the interpretation debates started: What is the first Rank in Boy Scouts? Tenderfoot What knots are required for a scout earn First Class Rank? If you mean this to be a cumulative answer (from joining to First Class), then the answer is: Square Knot, Two Half Hitches, Taut-line Hitch, Bowline, Timber Hitch, Clove Hitch, Square Lashing, Shear Lashing, and Diagonal Lashing. (Just as "Hitches" are considered knots, so too are "Lashings"). If you mean this for First Class only (not including knots from previous ranks), then the answer is Bowline, Timber Hitch, Clove Hitch, Square Lashing, Shear Lashing and Diagonal Lashing. What knots are required for a scout to Earn eagle? Again, depends on whether you mean this cumulatively (in which case its: Square Knot, Two Half Hitches, Taut-line Hitch, Bowline, Timber Hitch, Clove Hitch, Square Lashing, Shear Lashing, and Diagonal Lashing) or for Eagle Only, not since joining, in which case its none. What is the minimum days and nights of camping that a scout needs to earn First Class? Three - since joining. How many total days and nights of camping does a scout need to progress from Scout to Eagle Scout? 20 days, 20 nights (per the required Camping Merit Badge). How long does a scout have to finish a partial merit badge? Until his 18th Birthday Can a parent be a merit badge counselor for their son? Yes, provided that the parent is also counseling another youth at the same time. True of false...A unit may set an attendance or participation measurement to determine if a scout is "active" in the unit? False True or false...A unit can set an attendance or participation measurement to determine Scout Spirt? False Who sits on a board of review for the ranks or Tenderfoot through First Class? At least three, and no more than six, registered Troop Committee Members. Except for merit badges who can sign a scout's advancement requirements? Whomever the Scoutmaster designates, provided it is not the Scout's own parent. Can a scout sign his own handbook? No, he indicates that he has met the requirement but does not sign himself off on it. How many elective merit badges must a scout complete to earn the Star Rank? Two. Can a youth identify himself as a Boy Scout when seeking donations for an Eagle Project? Yes - in the inevitable context of working on his Boy Scout Eagle Scout rank. He must, however, make clear that he is not seeking donations TO the Boy Scouts, or AS a Boy Scout. (Trick Question in a way - Billy Scout identifies himself as a Boy Scout when he approaches Lumberyard Owner Joe and says "My name is Billy and I'm working on a service project for the "Local Non-profit" as part of my Eagle Scout project". The BSA recognizes that it would be near impossible for a lad not to be indentified as a Boy Scout, but makes clear the the Boy Scout must not raise the donations as a Boy Scout (not in uniform, etc) or for the Boy Scouts - it is for the "Local Non-profit"). For which merit badge can a scoutmaster automatically counsel because he is a Scoutmaster? None. Who is responsible for training unit leaders about the BSA advancement program? The District Advancement Chair and Committee (and ultimately, the Council Advancement Chair and Committee). Who is responsible for the merit badge program at a local summer camp? The Council Advancment Chair and Committee, through the Council Camping Committee. How many personal references must a scout supply on his Eagle Application? Six (or five if he has no employer). How many references must the scout obtain for the Eagle board of review? None. Calico(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

I've tried it a couple of times - they are great for naps and short periods of sleep - after about 5 hours, they become uncomfortable - at least they did for me. I'd have to get up and walk around for 1/2 an hour or so to work the kinks out, before I could try again. The problem is the sag in the middle - sleeping on ones side helps to mitigate it somewhat, but no matter what, you will eventually wake up because you are laying in an unnatural, non-ergonomic position. Its hard to sleep in a sleeping bag in a hammock, so you will need more of an underquilt and top blanket type set up and because of that, you won't really save much weight at all. I wouldn't use Wal-mart (or any other) bed sheets to rig a hammock - sheets aren't designed to hold up to hanging weights, If you're going to go the hammock route - get a hammock. There are a couple of manufacturers of "hammock shelters" - they ook like tents strung between trees. I've never tried one of those, but considering I never use my sleeping bag as a bag, but as a blanket, I doubt I would find these comfortable - I tend to be slightly claustrophobic in tunnel like spaces. If you have any lads that move around a lot at night, expect some rolling out of bed accidents. Most modern, good quality backpacking tents are designed so that the rain fly can be set up independently of the tent - using the same poles and stakes. You could always leave the tent at home and just use the fly - or if good weather is expected throughout the whole trip, leave the fly home and just cary the tent body. In a surprise rainstorm, ponchose can be set up as the rain fly in a pinch. Calico

In Bear Country, California State Parks provide "bear proof" lockers (I use quotes because experience has shown that nothing is truly bear proof for a very determined bear). On their picnic tables, they have bolted (ok, pop-riveted) a metal plate with directions on how to use the lockers, and why. Among the things they tell you to put into the bear locker is your deoderant, toothpaste, shampoo, soaps, shaving cream, etc. In other words, personal hygiene products that most of us forget about when we do hang bear bags (go on line and research how to use set up a bear bag - and do it religiously every night - you will be camping in black bear habitat, and you won't likely have these nifty bear lockers - and a cooler does not count as a bear locker). So, if we should be putting these personal hygiene products in a bear bag or bear locker, logic should tell us that the use of this stuff can attract bears. Now I wouldn't worry about using it in the morning - but I sure wouldn't want to use "Gee, your hair smells like Strawberries" at night. Even better, go get the non-perfumed stuff. They do make non-perfumed deoderant and soaps - and you can find non-perfumed shampoos in most natural foods stores. Of course, even better than that - don't sweat the "must be absolutely clean at all times" mantra typcal of our urban-oriented society. It's ok to go without a shower for a few days on the trail - by the end of the hike, you'll all be so equally ripe that you won't really notice it. Use non-scented baby wipes to freshen up - that helps - and change clothes everyday - clothes really trap odors - its amazing what a fresh t-shirt will do, even if you haven't been able to shower or bathe yet. Cleanliness in the woods is more about getting the major stuff - dirt stains, etc. than about being so clean you squeak.

$3.999?? I'm moving - that would be heaven. We've been at $4.29 for weeks now - though yesterday we dropped to $4.09. I just got back from a trip to the Pacific Northwest. California prices were in the $4.50 range. Coming back from a day trip to Mt. Ranier (from Portland, Oregon), I found a small town gas station in Washington where the price for regular was $4.92/gallon. The premium blends were both over $5.00 per gallon. CalicoPenn

My original take, before we got the rest of the story, was that what was being discussed was based on heresay, not fact, and should have no bearing. Once we got the rest of the story, and we learned the incident actually happened, but a few years, and ranks, prior to present, that this should no longer have any bearing on awarding the Eagle Scout rank now. Had it been something that happened recently, I would certainly be pressing for some serious probing into the incident, with an inclination to deny rank if this was not just an aberation, or if there can be an interpretation of lack of intent. As an example of the last, we've heard of at least one case where a Scout was suspended from school, and faced potential arrest, for leaving an axe used at an Eagle Project in the trunk of his car and running afoul of the school's zero tolerance policies. Does something like that rise to a level that Eagle should be denied? In this case, though, it happened a while ago. I don't think I would characterize it as being "hushed up". I'd characterize it as having been dealt with, and life moves on. I see no claims that it has happened since. Boys aren't perfect - that goes for boys that are Scouts too. Eagle Scouts and Eagle Scout candidates aren't perfect. Building character isn't as simple as putting a Boy Scout uniform on a boy and "poof" - the Boy has character. It's a process. As part of this lads process, he ran into a rough patch when he was 13, along with some of his peers (and peer pressure, especially at age 13, can be quite overwhelming). He's now 17, and from all appearances (from the limited info we have), he's grown through that incident. An Eagle Board of Review isn't an inquisition. It isn't a time when we open a Scouts "permanent record" and go over every slip or issue in a lad's Scouting career. It's not some kind of parole hearing. It's not a place to play "gotcha" games. I see no reason to bring this incident up at all, nor for the Board of Review members to even be told of it. Like Board's for the other ranks, Eagle Boards are about measuring the success of a Troop's program - though this time it's less about their success in teaching skills, and more about developing a Scouts character. It's also about how Scouting has impacted the lads future, his beliefs, his confidence, his character. For this lad, I would suggest that his learning from that one incident, and sticking it through to go on to potentially earn the Eagle Scout rank, speaks volumes about his good character. That's just my take, as an Eagle Scout myself. Calico btw - the reason I asked if you were an Eagle Scout is that thus far, in my experience, and for the most part (there are of course exceptions) that folks who weren't Eagle Scouts tend to be a bit harder, a bit less forgiving of slips, when it comes to awarding the Eagle Scout rank. I don't think it comes from anywhere negative, but more from a viewpoint that the Eagle Scout rank is, or should be, more sacrosanct than any other rank, and therefore only the best of the best of the best should earn it. And for the most part (with exceptions, of course), those who earned the Eagle Rank tend to be a bit more flexible when confronted with these same slips - and have a view that every Scout should have the opportunity to become Eagle, flaws and all. I think we put the Eagle Scout rank on a pedestal, and then those that earn it actually learn that the pedestal doesn't really exist - that Eagle Scout is both special, and also just another beginning.

(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

Just out of curiosity - where was the SPL, or the adults leaders, when these lads started to bicker in the first place? Why was it not dealt with before it got personal? Calico

Flip, I'm curious - are you an Eagle Scout? Calico

I think it's sad, and a poor reflection on a Council and their Summer Camp, if they require boys to sign up for merit badges before getting to camp (though I can see a couple of exceptions, such as Scuba, where the camp may be sending information about any special equipment that needs to be brought along, or any extra costs involved). It's equally sad if a Troop treats Summer Camp as nothing more than a merit badge factory, especially if they're willing to send a Scout home because he's decided to blow off those sessions. If a summer camp can't absorb whatever number of Scouts want to take a particular class, it has bigger problems to work out. Though we had a pretty good idea of what merit badges we wanted to work on before we got to camp, we always waited until camp actually started and we could learn something about how that particular merit badge session was going to be handled before taking the session. For instance, I took one particular merit badge because of a planned hike to the bogs on the Scout Reservation that were otherwise off limits as a protected wildlife sanctuary. I wouldn't have known to take that merit badge in advance of learning that this would be part of the merit badge work, and didn't learn it would be part of the badge work until we got to camp. To this day, I remember things about bogs that I never would have learned otherwise. Had I wanted to concentrate on Horsemanship (Ma-Ka-Ja-Wan had it's own horse ranch, and offered this merit badge at camp). I would have known in advance that it would cost an additional $50. And we always - always - always had the option of just "dropping out" of any merit badge session. As our wise Scoutmaster used to tell us - summer camp is supposed to be fun, and if you aren't having fun at a merit badge session, then just stop going - if you finished any of the requirements, ask for the partial - you can always finish it at home, or the next year. If the lad just wants to fish all day - encourage him to work on Fishing Merit Badge. It won't cost him any more time, and if he's clever, he'll read certain requirements to meet his own standards. One of my fellow Scouts worked on the fishing merit badge three years in a row. He could never seem to catch the required number of fish to earn the merit badge. In his third year, we learned why. It wasn't that he wasn't catching the fish - it was that he wasn't catching fish that met HIS standards for catching a fish. He wasn't about to claim that merit badge because he caught some blue gills - not when there were bass, northern pike, and muskies in the lake! How did we learn this? He spent more time in a rowboat that third year (we had some Scouts - including me - working on Rowing Merit Badge and he would come along as company while we rowed out on the lake), and caught the fish he was looking for. When the Counselor mentioned at lunch that it took him long-enough to catch his fish, he just off-handedly mentioned that he caught the number of fish he needed long ago - they just weren't the right fish. The Counselor was floored - and our wise Scoutmaster just grinned. There were always plenty of things to do around camp that didn't require taking a merit badge. Sure, the lakefront might be closed to swimming in the morning during merit badge sessions, but the commissioners camp welcomed Scouts at their campfire as much as they welcomed the Scout Leaders. I learned more about cooking in a dutch oven by hanging out at the Commissioner's Camp than I learned in my Troop - and I wasn't earning a single merit badge while I was hanging out at the Commissioner's Camp. Now, if a lad is blowing off a merit badge session, I'm going to ask him why - not in a way to try to guilt him back into going, or to somehow get some point about responsibility across, but because there may be more going on than I see from the surface. It may be that the Counselor is just doing a really poor job of presenting the badge, it may be that the lad took on more than he could chew at this time, it may be that the lad just wants some down time, or that the lad is really just not that interested in the badge after all and feels he has no other options. Calico

I'll echo what FireKat has said. The COR wants the lads out - if she is speaking for the head of the CO (and that's likely the case if there is a concern about damage to the Chartering Organization's reputation) then there is no vote, no committee discussion. The COR tells the committee to remove the Scouts from the rolls, and the committee does it. If the committee refuses, the COR fires any leader that refuses, contacts the Council, tells the Council the lads and the removed adults are no longer members of the Unit, and reforms the committee and adult leadership as needed. Calico

Den Chief is listed as a POR for every rank where a POR is required for advancement. It is a POR that is just as important to a Troops operations as PL and SPL - Den Chief's are responsible for more recruitment into the BSA, and into Troops, than any other position. If a lad is a duly appointed Den Chief, then his time in service counts - if a rank is denied because Den Chief isn't good enough, it will be reversed on appeal - and likely with some very hard questions directed at the "leaders" who denied the rank for this reason. Could a Scoutmaster prevent it? Sure, by not appointing a lad as a Den Chief for more than one term. Is this a wise thing for a Scoutmaster to do? No - in fact, it would be pretty dang stupid of a Scoutmaster to do - and I'd question the judgment and temperment of any Scoutmaster who did so. Frankly, any Scoutmaster that makes those kind of ignorant statements don't deserve to be Scoutmasters and shouldn't be allowed within 10 feet of any BSA leadership postionb since it's obvious they are much more interested in wielding power and being an obstacel, then being a mentor and guide. Calico

I'm curious as to what kind of fundraising you're doing? Are they fundraisers that are community oriented (pancake breakfasts, car washes, etc.)? Are they fundraisers that are sales oriented (popcorn, wreaths, etc.)? Please share. It sounds as if your Committee Chair is taking a very pragmatic approach to the issue, and not letting the frustrations that he probably shares get in the way of the program. The unit is already offering an incentive for participation - offsetting expenses with a portion of the profits. That just may not be enough for everyone in the unit, though. Have you folks given a thought to a non-monetary incentive? Perhaps have the adult leaders plan and execute one outing a year (with PLC agreeing to give up the planning for that one weekend, of course), open only to those Scouts who participated in at least one fundraiser per year. I'd make it a fun outing - no advancement work needed - just lots of free time for exploring, hiking, playing frisbee, etc (you get the picture). Make it an even better reward by having the adults do all the cooking and after cooking cleanup (yes, that tosses patrol method out the window - but this is a special outing). Be creative - most state parks are within delivery distance of a town (see where I'm going here yet?) - on Saturday night, just before dinner, make a big show of being woefully unprepared and uncoordinated, only to be saved by the arrival of the pizza delivery guy (imagine the look on the lads faces if you pull that off). Just a thought. Calico

Dear Queen, When you people learn how to spell Aluminum, as it was originally coined and spelled by the discoverer of Aluminum, a British subject named Humphrey Davy, and how to pronounce it correctly, then maybe we'll chat. When you people learn to behave as civilized human beings at sporting events (if the fans of the Chicago Cubs and the Chicago White Sox can interact peacefully while they're favorite teams play each other two weeks in a row, then surely the fans of Manchester United and Chelsea can get along for one game), then maybe we'll listen. And before you get all hoity-toity about soccer, let me remind you that the British have failed to field a soccer team at the Olympics for at least 2 generations, and the last time you folks won gold (or any medal for that matter) in soccer was 1908 and 1912 - back when no one knew what the heck you were doing. In the meantime, the US Men's team have reached the finals 5 times, and the US Women's team - let me repeat that - WOMEN's team, has won the gold medal in 1996 and 2004. With respect, The United States of America. Oh, and by the way, it was Kristin Shepard that shot JFK, or was that J.R. Either way, they both happened in Dallas, and that's all you really need to know.

Different reply - on martial law. All martial law does is substitute civilian control to military control, civilian justice for military justice. Neither the federal government, nor most states in the US, have a mechanism for declaring martial law. Louisiana is one of those states that does not have such a mechanism. What the US, and most states, have, is a mechanism to declare a legal "State of Emergency". This is not the same as martial law, as it does not turn over control of civilian functions to the military - rather, it empowers the government to use the military to perform certain functions, especially law enforcement. At all times in this country, the military is under the control of civilians - martial law would reverse that, and that would be unconstitutional (which is why we don't have a mechanism for declaring martial law). So I'll reiterate, there is no civil or criminal penalties for failing to follow a "mandatory" evacuation. The government can not force anyone from their home in an evacuation - it can only strongly suggest. And the courts can't declare your home uninhabitable pre-disaster, if there is no evidence that the home is currently uninhabitable. Of course, if you decide to stay home, you do so at your own risk.

OGE, I know Salt Creek well. I grew up in Rolling Meadows - upstream from Wood Dale. Both the East Branch and the West Branch of Salt Creek flow through the city. The East and West branches of Salt Creek converge near the southern border of Rolling Meadows. The creek then flows through the Ned Brown Forest Preserve (aka Busse Woods). Because of flooding downstream, (and poor choices of where to build), a couple of reservoirs were built at Busse Woods to hold as much water as possible - now these reservoirs fishing lakes, where boats can be rented. When Rolling Meadows was built in the 50's, from those rolling corn and bean fields (or much more likely, potato fields - that was actually the most common crop on farms in the Northwest Suburbs of Palatine, Arlington Heights, Rolling Meadows and Schaumburg), the developer left wide swaths of land on either side of the East Branch undeveloped and donated most of it to the City as park district land, creating a mostly uninterrupted linear park system through the town. He knew better, way back then, to build in the flood plain - and he knew they were flood plains because he asked the farmers he bought the land from how far the creeks flooded. He was also thought a fool by other developers for leaving so much undeveloped land untouched. (BTW - he came from the "People's Republik of Kalifornia"). I grew up in a house at the edge of one of these parks - when the creek flooded, we would watch as the creek overflowed onto large swaths of the park land, creating a mini-lake (though with a fairly swift current) right outside the back yard. The homes by the west branch were mostly built much later, and fortunately for the homeowners, it has a deeper channel, so it does not usually flood, except in a few small areas where the only danger from flood damage is people's swing sets. The biggest problem with development along Salt Creek was that most people (developers, town fathers, etc.) didn't recognize Salt Creek for what it really was, and it was ultimately a semantics problem. Back in the mid-1900's, we had a pretty good handle on how rivers flooded, and most rivers had at least rudimentary flood plain maps completed - but no one really gave much thought to those bodies of waters named creeks - the thinking was they didn't have flood plains. Unfortunately for the folks along Salt Creek, that meant there was little thought given to whether a flood plain existed for the creek. Had Salt Creek retained its original name - Little Des Plaines River - it may have led to different building rules in those towns lining the main branch of Salt Creek. Just a little watershed history that I thought OGE might enjoy. Sorry if it bores anyone else. Calico

Random thoughts: * When Hurricane Katrina hit, New Orleans had a population of almost 1/2 million people. It's not easy to evacuate a 1/2 million people out of a city, especially a city with limited access in to and out of the city. Also, a "mandatory" evacuation isn't mandatory in the sense we tend to think the word means. There is no criminal or civil penalty for failing to evacuate. Ultimately, no government - local, state or federal, can force you to leave your home if you decide to ride out a storm or other disaster. All calling a mandatory evacuation does is absolve the government from liability should one choose to ignore it. * Reality check - New Orleans survived Hurricane Katrina. It was the unexpected later failure of the levies, which happened without much warning, that made Katrina memorable in the history of New Orleans. * Reality check #2 - The number of school buses that were caught in the flood was so negligable that it wouldn't have made much of a dent at all in any evacuations. The average school bus holds 60 adults - even cramming the buses with up to 100 people, it would not have made much of a difference at all - there weren't thousands of buses stranded by the flood, there were less than 200. And, those buses would not have been used in an initial evacuation anyway - the emergency plans New Orleans had, as inadequate as those plans were, reserved those buses for post-disaster transportation - and rightly so. Again, no one haad expected the levies to fail, especially since they seemed to have survived the hurricane itself. * There is a media juxtaposition that I will never forget, nor will I ever forgive right wing media outlets like Fox News for being so blatantly racist and dishonest. There was a picture of a young, white couple, who looked like they were relatively affluent, showing them both wading waist deep through the flood waters pushing water bottles they had "justifiedly" liberated from an abandoned store in this dire time of need. That's right - liberated, not looted. The next day there was footage of some young black men gathering water and food from an abandoned store - except this time the right wing media called it looting (and there was no looting for big screen tv's and high end sneakers - that was a lie perpetrated by racist, right-wing commentators who didn't know what they were talking about). So apparently, it's ok to loot a store for food and water when you're white and affluent, but not if your black and poor. I say to that - balderdash - and shame on the media for perpetuating this disgraceful display of ignorance, and shame on anyone who accepted such racist distortions as fact. * During my early 20's, I volunteered for my municipalities emergency services and disaster agency. One of our tasks was to take charge in setting up and running emergency evacuation centers, so I got federal certification as a shelter manager. Our City had some supplies on hand (cots, blankets, food and water) but not enough to supply and entire city of 22,000 people with everything needed. One of the keys of the plan was that we would take over the grocery and convenience stores in town if neccessary for needed supplies - and would request that people coming to the shelter bring whatever water and blankets they could safely carry (if any) with them. So yes, it's unreasonable for anyone to expect a village, town, or city to have an emergency shelter stocked at all times with all the supplies needed for a multi-day stay - let alone a shelter holding 10,000 people. The shelter would be stocked with just enough to get it going, then the authorities would start essentially ransacking (looting) stores for more supplies. BTW - in New Orleans, the authorities were doing just that - they were also breaking into stores to carry out as much water and other needed supplies as they could - but even that will last just so long. * Flooding is a regular occurrence in rivers in the midwest. This, more than anything, explains the preparedness of small town and medium city midwestern states - we've lived through it many times so we know what to generally expect. And we know how to recover from them.

My hunch is that we'll see another article in this paper with a headline that reads "Boy Scout Receives Eagle Award Despite Conservation Commission". Just from a public relations viewpoint alone, I think it's likely the Council will find some way to make sure the BOR is done, and prevent this fiasco from not just ensnaring the conservation commission, but the Council too. My guess is that the paperwork will either be miraculously pre-dated or that the Council will announce that the original project had been approved with all the paperwork signed, and that this was merely a change in the plans, and not a new project, and so therefore the project proceeded under those signatures, after having been discussed with the District representative.

Let's not lay it all on the Arrowmen and on the OA. There are other factors involved as well: Scoutmasters and other Unit Leaders not understanding the process. Lodges can alleviate this somewhat by sending out information on the process early. In my Lodge, we encourage the chapters to request time at a roundtable to give a presentation on the process and hold an election night sign-up. Not every roundtable commissioner is willing to give the meeting over to a 15 or 16 year old, and roundtables rarely get 100% unit participation. Unit leaders bullying the election team - happens more than we'd like to admit. Unit leaders trying to hold their own elections using their own rules. Units not believing the OA can offer benefits to the unit. Calico

I alway wore my summer camp t-shirts to school - both in Jr. High and High School - never had anyone have an issue with that. Why, then, should a camp have a problem with a lad wearing a school related t-shirt - sports team, band, theater, etc. - to camp? I'm reminded that the first point of the Scout Law is "A Scout is Trustworthy". What does such a policy say to Scouts and their parents about being trustworthy if camps aren't willing to trust that Scouts (and their parents) won't bring inappropriate t-shirts to camp unless told not too? Jamboree is a different animal in this discussion - the t-shirt policy at Jamboree is all about image and marketing for an event that is A) open to visitors pretty much all the time, and B) has a lot of media around. Not the same environment as a local council summer camp at all.

Your number is protected? Protected how? By the scam artist that goes on radio and shills for his firm by spewing out his Social Security number and claiming it's protected? Perhaps you're unaware that his Social Security Number has been used illegally numerour times since he started his advertisements.