CalicoPenn

In another thread, unrelated to politics, a member sarcastically raised the spectre of the government performing a hostile takeover of GM. Someone else responded that when folks get a loan from the bank, they're are often requirements that must be followed. Of course, it was brought up that having someone who has never run a business for profit be involved in making a decision for a corporation seems a bit nuts, while someone else then defended that by stating that good leaders delegate to people who do know how to do things. Of course, all the above is paraphrased summary but I think it gets us up to date. The thread got back on track but to prevent further hijack, I thought I would open this up to folks because I'm sure there is a diversity of opinion on this issue. At issue, in the hostile takeover vein, it appears is the news that Obama "fired" the CEO of GM over the weekend. Of course, that's a simplistic characterization, but one that has made its way into the media. It's probably more accurate to say that GM was told that it would receive no further government funds unless there was a change at the top level. Now I've heard many pundits, particularly on the conservative side, bemoan this as a takeover, or government control run amock, and just plain out of bounds. My take on it is this - the US Government is being asked to invest in the future of GM. Sure, they call it a loan but let's get real, if part of the "loan" is going to be the government backing warranties (kind of like the way it backs a certain amount of bank deposits through the FDIC), then its unlikely we'll see everything we "loan" come back to us. So let's call it for what it is - an investment. Anyone who is familiar with how investment banking works knows that it is not uncommon at all for investment groups who are being asked to invest money into a firm to demand a number of things - often it's majority seats on the board - and sometimes, they'll make the investment if the firm boots out top officers of the company - CEO's, COO's, Presidents - all have been known to be allowed to resign so that investors can see someone they have more confidence in take over the reigns. Heck, it's not that rare for an investor's group to force out the founder(s) of a company they're going to invest in with an eye to bringing it to an IPO position. IMHO, that's all that happened here - GM was given a chance to develop a plan - in the investor's eyes (that would be our government - but they should be looked at in this situation as investors first and foremost) that plan was lacking - and the investors lost confidence in the guy at the top. It's not an unreasonable request then for the investors to say "the plan needs to be reworked, we'll give you more time, but the guy at the top has to go - take it or leave it". Sure, the argument can be made that private investors should have taken up this gap - but realistically there isn't a provate investor group out there with the billions of dollars needed to shore up this enterprise. And sure, maybe we should let them shut down - but then again, they are a symbol of our industrial capacity - we must maintain industrial processes - and the numbers of people nationwide that would be affected is incredible - we aren't talking a few car plants near Detroit - we're talking an entire industry of raw material suppliers, parts suppliers, after-market suppliers, salespeople, service people - and all the folks that support those folks. That's a heck of a set of dominoes to let fall. Hostile takeover? Not in this case I don't think. But we sure could use a hostile takeover of certain Wall Street firms. Calico

Look up Drum Circle on the internet and use your location - if you're near a good sized city, you should find a few resources - if not, you may need to expand you search to your state. With good research, you should be able to find someone within 150 miles or so who might be willing to travel for expenses and run a Drum Circle for you at a campfire. I think that would be a great alternative to the traditional skit and song fest. Of course, you probably can't do it at a state park unless you can reserve their "ampitheater" and get permission before you arrive (noise restrictions and all) but at a Scout camp, it should be a snap. Many folks who run Drum Circles will even provide the a variety of drums. The only limitation on the size of the group is the number of drums available - it may not be possible on a District level but certainly on a Troop level it should be doable (and of course on the Patrol level - Kudu, I'm nodding in your direction here - but (and this is a qualified but), in a Drum Circle, the more drums, the better - 6 to 8 drums can sound great - but 20 or more drums sound exquisite. Why do I suggest a Drum Circle leader? For one, if they're supplying most of the drums, they'll supply a variety of drums, all with their own sounds - and that diversity is what really makes a Drum Circle sing. More importantly, they set the pace, rhythm and mood. A skilled Drum Circle Leader makes what appears to be a chaotic blend of noise into an exquisite pastiche of sound and motion. (Can you tell I've participated in my share of Drum Circles?).

Did I read this correctly? This particular father drives scouts to the campouts then goes into town and stays at a motel instead of camping? Now he's concerned about severe weather? I have a question for him, or perhaps for you, to pointedly ask him. If severe weather comes through that requires an immediate evacuation of the campground with no time to take down tents or gather gear, and requiring loading the lads up in the cars and driving them into town or a safe zone, how safe is it to pile the lads he drove to the camp ground into now overloaded cars while he's potentially 5 miles or more away?

By the description of the plant, it sounds as if it might be Yellow Goat's-beard (Tragopogon pratensis). It's a plant about 3' tall and it's large, yellow, dandelion like flowers form large seed heads - abour 3' in diameter, like a dandelion on steroids as Anne states. Even a hotspark is too hi-tech. Nothing beats plain old Flint and Steel (though it should be called Flint and Iron).

Now if only we could get President Obama to force the heads of the failing Wall Street firms, we might actually get the banking crisis solved.

I don't get the Helicopter Parent/Finding Nemo comparison. If I recall the story correctly, Dad was nervous because it was his boys FIRST day of school - and sure, Dad was suffering a greater separation anxiety than the boy was, but that's not unusual in parents at all when their offspring go out into the world for the first time (first day of school). I also recall that the times that Dad wanted to rush in, he held back - because he didn't want to be that type of parent. If anything, it showed Dad overcoming the urge to become a helicopter parent.

The question was asked what events in the news occurred without adult supervision. The biggest one I can recall in recent memory was a forest fire started by Scouts on a Wilderness Survival overnight at summer camp under the "supervision" of 15 year old "camp counselors". No adults were on that overnight, and it was at a Council summer camp, one of those more "secure" locations. Let's see how National words their new regulations on patrol outings (or contact National with suggestions). It may be that the regs are to have 2-deep adult leadership available nearby, but not neccessarily at the campsite. I see nothing wrong with having a couple of adults camping a 15-30 minute walk away just in case of an emergency.

It's your medal - wear it anywhere you want.

Raccoon......Tent

The information Mile High has provided should be read by as many Scouters as possible. The information is valuable in helping folks understand what to watch out for. That being said, I feel I must defend myself a bit. I was not responding to the whole issue of teen depression and suicide, I was responding to just this one case. As a result, it may have appeared my answer was incomplete for those looking for knowledge about prevention. Nor did I say counseling is not needed. Had we been talking about suicide prevention as a general topic, I would very much have been suggesting that counseling be recommended. Again, I was responding to this singular case where being bombarded with suggestions to seek counseling can actually serve to close off communications - there is no doubt the lad and his family have already been told to seek counseling, and for that matter, may already be in counseling (something that is highly likely - in most cases, hospitals don't release patients that have tried to commit suicide without arranging for counseling). To be told after the fact by well meaning friends to seek counseling is often seen, rightly or wrongly, as an attack. And finally, no - not just lump along - because frankly no one can. It will always be in the back of your minds that Joe Scout tried suicide and you'll always be wondering if he's going to try again - and where. No matter what, you will be being extra mindful around him. BUT - my point is to not allow that attempt to change your relationship with the Scout - and that's something everyone struggles with. It's much easier to keep an eagle eye on that lad while keeping just a hawks eye on the other lads, it's much easier to keep the lad away from sharp objects, it's much easier to let sympathy become an overriding factor in the relationship. It's much easier - but in most cases it's the wrong path. I have yet to have a patient tell me that they are appreciative of the extra attention and caution that others show around them. What they do tell me is that they close themselves off to people who start treating them differently - and that means they're closing themselves off to their friends and relatives and people that they need to stay in their lives to provide some stability.

Scoutldr makes a good point about poison ivy vines still being around in the winter - but then again, Virginia creeper vines are still around in the winter and it's difficult to tell them apart if you're not really up on vines in winter. My advice is to read the requirement for what it is and not follow the words our brains try to add to them because it (the brain) thinks it's smarter than the words. (There have been studies that show people are able to determine what many words are by just the first and last letters, whether the intervening letters are missing or scrambled - and that we have an amazing capacity to add missing words to sentences without any effort). The requirement states "Identify local poisonous plants". For many people, our brains try to add the qualifier "in the field" because that just makes sense. Yet "in the field" doesn't exist in the requirement anywhere. So when we get rid of the non-existent sentence, it opens up other possibilities. The obvious possibility is "yes, a Scout can identify a local poisonous plant by photo". There is nothing in the requirement that says a Scout can't be handed a small pack of photos he hasn't seen before and asked to pull out and identify the photos showing local poisonous plants in order to pass the requirement. I might have at least 5 but no more than 10 or so pictures of common woodland plants for my area - leaves only - with one being poison ivy, one being Virginia creeper (often misidentified as poison ivy), one being trillium (a flower with three leaves), and a few others and ask the Scout to identify any posionous plants in the pictures. Or maybe I have one picture of a group of different plants and ask him to identify any poisonous plants in the picture. This method can be done any time of the year. The Scout still needs to learn the plants - but then he needs to show that he's learned it. Calico

There really is only one way to answer someone who tells you you're going to hell: "I'll make sure and say hello to your Grandmother when I get there"

This comes from a Troop 760 Wiki-dot on the Four Winds Ceremony (http://troop760.wikidot.com/four-winds-ceremony) Anpetu wi (ahn pay too wee) the Sun Hau (houw) yes, agree, hello Mahpiyah Ate (mak pi yah ah tay) Father Sky HAY-OON-KEE-YA - "Be with us" HAY-OON-KEE-OON-EE-YA-SNEE - "Come not upon us" Make Ina (mah kah ee nah) Mother Earth Meetah kola nayhoon-po omnicheeyay nee-chopi - OMNICIYE (omnicheeyay) is definitely the Lakota word for Council, and Seton says this phrase means "Hear me, my friends, we are about to hold a council." Mitakuye Oyasin (me ta koo yea oh ya seen) We are all relate NACHINNAYET OKANDA TEHA - Meaning? (Nachinnayet looks like Nacheneyit which is Lenape for "third"; Okanda is same as Wakonda or "Great Spirit"; and Teha is Lakota for "Late" or is it meant to be Tchen which is Lenape for "times"?) Noon-way - Amen, or this is our prayer. (according to Seton, but what language?) Also: Wakonda (Okanda) - The Great Spirit Makaeina (Mokianna) - Mother Earth Mahpiya A'te - Father Sky (in Troop 760's 4-Winds ceremony but missing from Otena's) Weeyo-Peata (Weeyaeenyapapyta) - West Wind Wazi-Yata (Wusiota) - North Wind Weeyo-hinyan-pata (Weyapayta) - East Wind Okaga - South Wind My short bit of research leads me to believe that the "Four Winds Ceremony" was mostly created out of the writings of Ernest Thompson Seaton and a few other "native lore" people. With all due respect to the history of the Boy Scouts, old Ernie was the early 20th century equivalent to the late 20th century "New Ager's/Crystal/Harmonics" folks that the majority of us roll our eyes at (Shirley McClaine would be the spiritual descendent of Thompson). It seems pretty clear that the "Four Winds Ceremony" was written by white people who either used snippets of Souix (and possibly other people's) words to create new ones that they thought sounded authentic or were badly spelling words phonetically - I suspect a combination of both. Note especially NACHINNAYET OKANDA TEHA. It appears this might be a combination of Souix and Delaware languages. I'd say enjoy the ceremony but be ready to explain to the lads it isn't authentic - it's just made up by white guys - like the Chief Illiniwek dance at the University of Illinois - and has as much to do with Native Americans and Native Traditions as Christmas Trees do with Channukah.

Why would there be an Ordeal Ceremony performed for competition in the first place? The Ordeal Ceremony, like the Brotherhood Ceremony and the Vigil Honor Ceremony, should be a special and significant ceremony, one done only when candidates are being inducted into the Order of the Arrow. But if competition it is, so be it. To the crux of the question, the Ordeal Ceremony, though special (despite being diluted in meaning by competition) is not secret. No, you can't just buy the Ordeal Ceremony book - however, any parent can attend and watch the ceremony, or for that matter can ask to read through the ceremony book. Besides, the lad is unlikely to remember this when he is inducted - and then is unlikely to remember it after being inducted. Heck, I don't remember much of my Ordeal ceremony except for some guys I knew dressed in "regalia" spouting off some mumbo jumbo, showing me the secret handshake and whispering something in my ear that to this day I swear was "Donald Duck Wears Pants". I remember less of my Brotherhood Ceremony. I do remember my Vigil Honor ceremony - but then it was a shorter ceremony.

I offer the following as general advice from a person who does crisis counseling as a living. I have never met this lad. I will not offer any opinions on what happened or why he did this. I will not venture an opinion of his family life, personal life, etc. If I had met this lad, I would be precluded from talking about it anyway. I will only say that the following comes from experience. Too often, good intentions can make matters worse. The hardest part sometimes to deal with is trying to undo the damage folks with good intentions do unintentionally between sessions. DO NOT tell anyone and do not discuss this with anyone the Scout or his family has not already spoken with about this issue. Not only is it a privacy issue - you may inadvertently tell someone the Lad didn't really want to have know and make things worse for him. DO NOT be judgmental. DO NOT treat him any differently now (either better or worse) than you already were treating him. Don't start treating him as fragile or damaged. Don't hover. Don't change the nature of your relationship. If you were gruff, stay gruff. If you were nice, stay nice. Your stability is needed. DO NOT treat him any differently than any of the other lads in the Troop at his level (example - not letting him use a knife to prepare food for cooking if everyone else can do so - or not letting him use the Axe Yard (if he has Totin Chip) when everyone else with Totin Chip can use it). DO NOT give him, or his family, any advice (including a suggestion that he get counseling) unless THEY ask. DO NOT try to counsel him yourself. DO NOT try to interfere with the family life. DO NOT start to delve into his personal life - unless HE wants to talk to you about it. DO NOT insist that he, or his family, follow some kind of rules (like getting counseling, etc.) that the Unit makes up for his continued participation. DO be supportive, and let him know you are there to talk to if he wants - then don't push to make him talk. If he wants to talk, he'll let you know. DO keep the SAME quiet eye out for him as you do all your other Scouts. (This is part of not treating him any differently). DO understand for your own benefit that you cannot be everywhere and that if he does attempt suicide again, even if under the Unit's watch - it is NOT your fault - and nothing you could have done would prevent it (no "if only I" remonstrations allowed). Calico

You got it Skeptic - It is indeed a melding of the names. I meant to say Earnest Thompson Seaton and Dan Beard - but in my rush to finish - just combined them. But it must not have been that bad because folks still understood (I guess they are pretty interchangable). You know, in all this hulabaloo by some that this was a "closed to press" meeting - I sure was able to find a number of press mentions of the meeting. Does anyone have any proof that these same meetings were open under the Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon (etc.) administrations? Not conjecture - but real proof? I looked for a scheduling calendar for Bush and couldn't find one online. As far as any of us knows, these meetings have traditionally been closed to the press, except for perhaps a very brief photo opportunity so this may not be something new at all. For all we know, it could be a closed to the press meeting at the request of the BSA so that the BSA isn't accused of allowing themselves to be used as a political prop by a President. Either way, I suspect the ruckus being raised about this is another false issue being touted by people of a particular political persuasion who can't find anything substantial to complain about. Calico

Community Organizer in Chief? Is this supposed to be some kind of put-down? Some notable Community Organizers we should be familiar with: Lord Robert Baden Powell William D. Boyce Daniel Seaton E. Urner Goodman Carroll A. Edson William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt Juliet Lowe Every Scoutmaster, Cubmaster, Advisor, Den Leader, Assistant Scoutmaster, Commissioner, District Chairman, Council President, District Executive, Scout Executive, Chief Scout Executive (and every other type of volunteer and professional BSA leader) there ever was - past to present. Is there something wrong with being a Community Organizer? I sure hope not - because I've been one - as has pretty much every adult that has ever volunteered in the BSA.(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

Back when I was a lad, our Troop did the bank at Summer Camp. The main reason was because the camp had safes in the camp offices and units were strongly encouraged to keep valuables locked in the safe. If we needed pocket money, we needed to tell a designated leader by the end of dinner (but not before 4:00). He would go to the office after dinner to get the funds. A secondary advantage was that the Leaders could monitor a lads funds balance - not to be nosy, but to make sure the lad had enough cash to pay for the mid-week raft trip and the mid-week overnight horse trip (we had a two week camp schedule, and both these trips - though offered by the Camp, had to be paid for at camp, not in advance). The leaders could warn the Scouts that there fund balance was this, and the cost of a trip they are wanting to go in is that - and to keep that in mind. It was also helpful if a lad was burning through cash for some reason, say trying to earn the Rifle and Shotgun Merit Badge (which is quite possible)and a quick call home by Scout and Leader to make sure a small loan to the lad was authorized if needed (happened a couple of times that I remember - and yes, the lads were working on Rifle and Shotgun) so he could fully participate and earn the merit badge he was working on. If we didn't get our request in on time, we were out of luck the next day (exception - the trips - the leaders would automatically get the money if we signed up so we didn't need to request those funds). That's also an important lesson in responsibility and money management.

Interestingly enough, when the old Battlestar Galactica was on, Frack never caught on, even though it was used quite regularly by Starbuck - I'm thinking that had more to do with the nerd quotiant of the show than anything else though - back then, it just wasn't cool to admit you watched Battlestar Galactica, Buck Rogers, reruns of Star Trek, or any other science fiction show. Then came Star Wars - changed everyone's view of Science Fiction. Trev - I've witnessed that same conversation. The most effective way to deal with it? Toss it right back at them (it works even better if you the kids know you have gay friends, or if the person responding is gay). Example: Teen: That shirt is so gay. Gay man: As if a gay person would be caught wearing that rag. Teen: Ummmmmmmm

I've heard and used fricking, farging and frigging, usually when I'm muttering to myself while trying to fit Tab A into Slot B and in my mind, I am replacing the more vulgar. On the other hand, I have never - ever - heard someone say "frick you" or "farg you" or "frig you" which gets me thinking that the "ing" at the end of the more vulgar word can result in that word having a less vulgar, more agitated exasperation conotation to it. Yet on the other, other hand - I try very hard (and usually succeed) not to use a vulgarity or a substitution. I think it is perfectly appropriate in Scouting not to accept substitutions as acceptable language during Scout functions and the best way to address it is, as has been suggested, Scoutmaster's Minutes (not a preachy don't do this approach but more a "have you thought of the impression you make on other people when you use these words" approach). As for the English lesson - time for a history lesson - back in the middle ages, when the Church would regularly burn "witches" and "heretics" at the stake, they would often tie up homosexuals among the bundles of sticks used to fuel the fires to burn them to death at the same time. Thus the perjorative use of the word "faggot" meaning "bundle of sticks" to also refer to homosexual men - this isn't some kind of 20th century perjorative - it's been used in that context for centuries. While it may seem like a clever idea to send the recipient of a hateful slur to the dictionary, would we send a black child to the dictionary to look up the entymological root of the "n" word which, without one "g", is Latin for black?

The first thing I noticed is that the Committee Chair is spot on with the program - she must have been trained. The BOR is not a retest and she ensure's that it isn't. You have a good leader there. I've never heard of a form that a Scout must fill out before his Scoutmaster's Conference. However, I do like your idea of modifying the one your unit uses now (which does seem a bit like it's a self-evaluation) to a simple checklist of all the items required for a rank - especially since the Troop doesn't require books to be present at the BOR (there is no requirement anywhere in BSA literature that books be present - but many units do request that they be there - but if a lad is denied advancement for not having their book (or being in full uniform) it is appealable) - it's a handy little sheet that the Units Advancement Chair can refer to later when filling out the paperwork - and lets the Board know that yes, the lad has fulfilled all the other requirements. Now if a lad wants to bring his book, I wouldn't discourage it. I would, however, discourage questions that refer to requirements in the book by number. One should be able to get a lad to start to open up by simply asking about the five mile hike, rather than asking about requirement 5B (which is sure to get a lad to freeze up). There is no requirement that a lad recite the Scput Oath and/or Scout Law at a Board of Review or Scoutmaster's Conference (not even for Tenderfoot - it's required he learn it to be signed off on it, but it isn't required - or allowed - that he be retested on it. I know many Troops do require it, and it sounds like a good idea - but it is wrong, and shouldn't be done - but as long as no one is denied advancement over it, no one will kick up much of a fuss. That being said, part of the BOR and Scoutmaster's Conference is to gather feedback on how the unit is doing. I do agree that it's important to know and live by the Scout Oath and Law - the fact that two of the lads (one advancing to Star!) weren't able to recite would lead me to conclude that something is missing from the opening of weekly meetings - We know the Pledge of Allegiance because we said it every day for weeks until we learned it - and then kept saying it (eventually to once per week in the upper grades). The same is true of the Scout Oath and Law - they aren't difficult to learn, IF they are said on a regular basis - and for most Troops, that is as opening ceremonies for the Troop Meetings (is your Troop doing a flag ceremony every week), campouts, etc. If it's a regular part of the meetings, a Scout up for Star should know it cold and you shouldn't have to worry about whether he knows it or not. Calico

Don't tell my boss that weekends are vacation - he might try to deduct them from my real vacation time and I'll end up owing him money for taking too many days. To say "Barack Obama spends more time on vacation than anything else" is nonsensical given that he hasn't taken a day's vacation since being sworn in, and has had to work weekends in order to present a budget overview plan as quickly as it was. Such a statement tossed out this early in the term is part of the same GOP strategy to throw whatever they can at the wall and see what sticks. Using that line so early in the game means that nothing is sticking and the reserves need to be called out - and darn it all that the reserves are failing too. Enjoy the ride - it's going to be bumpy (everyone acknowledges that) but in the end, we'll get to our destination - I'd rather be optimistic until given a real reason to be pessimistic. I live in Illinois - I don't begrudge Barack Obama spending his time running for President of the United States - it's a great feather in the cap of Illinois - and no one from Arizona begrudged McCain spending all that time running for the same office. Both Obama and McCain (and Clinton) were on the Senate floor when they needed to be (and McCain - bless his heart - even managed to make it to the Senate offices when he was just going to get in the way). I'm just very glad I Bush-proofed as much as I did.

I'm investing in T-bills and government bonds. I'm planning a trip to Hawaii in spring 2010 and the US Virgin Islands for fall 2010. I'm planning trips to the Mojave Desert,the Everglades, the Georgia/South Carolina coast and either the Oregon Coast of the Olympics/Cascades in Washington for this year. And I'm taking advantage of the bargains that are now out there as a result of Bushes economic depression. 401K? Never had one - I never want my cash put into an investment that has penalties for early withdrawal.

Might a suggest an additional way to approach this? For many of us, we think reminding the Scouts of the Scout Law and the Scout Oath is some kind of magic bullet that will get the lads to rethink the error or their ways, then are disappointed when it doesn't work. If these lads are going to drinking parties, and posting statements supporting teen drinking and drug use, they're likley over the age of 16 and threats over BOR's no longer really mean anything to them (that you haven't already lost them as Scouts suggests to me that it is something they do to please their parents rather than themselves). Nevertheless, you still have them involved and can make a difference - but the carrot and stick you're using needs to be updated. Rather than talk with them about how their facebook pages violate the Scout Law, talk to them about how facebook pages are affecting people's futures - instead of being judgemental, come at it from a sense of being concerned that they haven't thought of possible ramifications. Sit down with them - heck, make it a Scoutmaster's minute (or 10 - use it as part of the BSA mandate to incorporate internet safety in the program) and talk about how certain kinds of posting on social network pages are affecting peoples lives. You can start out with reminders that facebook (etc.) pages are public and that many college admission departments are checking high schooler's pages and using them to help determine if they are going to be a good fit for their schools. It should resonate particularly with the older lads who may be starting to apply to colleges - let them know that the college of their choice may see their facebook page and immediately disqualify them. Talk about career plans - many employers are now looking at peoples facebook pages, and turning down qualified applicants because of what they find on the internet. Then finish up with Michael Phelps, whose tale is not about his own facebook page, but about a picture that was snapped at a party ending up on someone elses facebook page which caused him to lose respectibility, sponsors, and money. That's more of a cautionary tale about being careful with their behavior out and about - what they think is a private affair can become public really fast.

So the options are to put him on probation or to remove him from the Troop?? That certainly may take care of the "problem" the adults and the other boys are having, but it will also serve to further isolate, alienate and anger this lad. Let's look at this as if it was a case study - I've never met this lad and can't diagnose, but I see a lot of things in here that would jump right out at me as starting points to examine in a case study. One of his parents, one of his rudders, has been taken away from him to serve overseas in a war zone. The lad is old enough (if he's a Life Scout) to understand that dad isn't on some grand adventure overseas but is in a very real dangerous situation. Knowing this doesn't usually lead to serenity. It usually leads to severe anxiety and fear over the future - over losing a parent permanently. Often in cases like this, boys, especially older boys, are likely to be suppressing those fears in front of the other parent (especially if it's mom) and any siblings - after all, they are going through the same thing too. Often, they try to be the stoic male figure in the household but without a healthy outlet to deal with the stress this brings. Many children of separated parents (whether by overseas service, divorce, separation, etc.) do things that we immediately condemn like buying drugs or otherwise breaking the law. Most of the time, it's an attempt to bring back the parent - the reasoning at this stage is that "if I do something bad enough, the Army (or Mom, or Dad's Boss) will let Dad come home". When that doesn't work, they start to turn to external ways of trying to deal with unrecognized and untreated stress - things like smoking. In this situation, many folks feel isolated and abandoned, with a feeling that there is no one else out there, other than family, that understands what they're going through. And having only the family going through this usually serves to isolate even more - because sometimes there are family issues that come up without satisfactory conclusions (and they don't have to be major - they can be as small as "little sister gets to watch whatever she wants on television at any time she wants even if it means I can't watch the basketball game I've been looking forward to for the past week"). Acting out is a signal to others, if they know how to read it. It's a call for help. The help needed may be as simple as having an adult they respect and trust let them unburden themselves of their fears and anxieties. Of having a compassionate shoulder to lean on, or to cry on if needed. To help them steer that massive ship of self back on course - or at the very least, to help make those giant obstacles look more like tiny ripples that can be navigated through. Someone to make them feel valued again. It may be that they need professional counseling to help them through and don't know how to get it (or are too embarrased to ask). Back to this particular lad, my gut feeling is that this lad needs understanding and compassion much more than some kind of punishment like probation or removal from the Troop. Is there one adult in the Troop more than any other (it may or may not be the Scoutmaster) that this lad trusts and respects and admires the most? Someone who can sit with this lad in confidence (yet in sight of another trusted adult - please not in front of the other boys, just in case he does feel the need to really let go and have a good cry) and just listen? Not scold, not upbraid, not suggest - just listen and be there? No talking about his behavior, no talking about the future in the Troop - just listen and comfort and show compassion, and give good advice only if asked for?? Is it really serving this lad, or the Troop (and future lads with issues) by holding a full blown Scoutmasters Conference with a "you're on probation (or out of the Troop)" and further the sense of isolation he's feeling? Seems to me you have an advantage here - you see the anger but you know where the anger is coming from - are we smart enough to recognize that the anger is just his way of dealing with stress because he doesn't know any other way of doing so? Your call - let us know how it turns out. Calico