TimB

Thanks for your comments. Good ones. Helping me to back off and get on with focusing on what I need to do for me. What happens for them is a result as to what they do for themselves. Like I would have never selected an external pack for my scout, but that's what he bought used from an army surplus store. He's thrilled with it. It's their stories to tell and I'm just there to make sure they don't get into danger. They all have the printed guides and same resources we have. I'll get to the airport July 6 and see who makes it.

Thanks. That does help. And frankly it is not even boys from my own Troop. I should back off and just make sure I'm ready and that I'm here to answer any questions from my own son. I do wish that another adult was going with me as we fly 5 of the boys out to Philmont. Or that someone would help them make sure they have everything in their pack. While my son wants the 50 miler award, we can't get that if the crew won't do the 7 service hours ahead of time. Thinking ahead, if a boy has to drop out while on the trek, does an adult need to go with him? Or can we leave him with the Staff and continue on with the other boys?

Motivating boys for a normal HA trek has its own challenges. I wonder if anyone is also dealing with new challenges in these uncertain times. 1. I am an adult leader going with my son. We are the only ones from our Troop, joining another Troop that has 5 boys and 1 leader. I never met these other 5 boys before a few months ago. 2. Other boys are not attending group workout hikes, not scheduling 7 hours of conservation time for 50 miler, not creating duty roster, etc. Other leader tells me the other boys "just want to go camping at Philmont." That other leader is fully into it, worked hard to lose weight and prepare. The boys selected the shortest possible trek, with ATV involvement. Only 51 miles total over 12 days. My boy is trying to figure out how to break away and still climb Baldy. Ha. He saw the map and realized that's not a day hike from a southern trek. 3. The other leader and his son will already be out in NM when we arrive, so I am traveling with the other 4 boys and my son to get there. 4. I am getting anxious in that I want to see that the boys are all physically prepared for this ("My boy does Cross Country, this should be easy," is not the answer I accept, but I'm the odd adult who is not in the main Troop.). I want to see that they packed properly and have necessary skills (for our shakedown hike, the other 5 forgot lighters, didn't bring enough water, had light packs, nobody shared tents, had to be taught the taut line hitch, and one brought a hammock). I've bought the Southern Philmont maps for all, but the other boys don't want to see it. 5. The Crew Leader, Chaplains Aid, Leave No Trace boys are all part of that other 5. 6. I suspect that the boys don't want to go - as opposed to want to not go. They aren't in my Troop and I don't know the families. But my gut is many are hoping it gets cancelled and are passively avoiding any real prep. So, do I back off and let them learn from any mistakes? DO I hold off until June 1 when a "go decision" becomes more of a reality? Is the 12-1 ATV trek so easy that any 6 healthy 16 and 17 year olds can do it, so pushing them won't matter? Do I push them with the understanding that I hold no past or future leadership in their Troop? If I push them and Philmont gets cancelled, do I feed into a mindset that adults are just stupid and the boys banking on a cancellation were right all along? Yes, I'm looking for a little group therapy here. The other adult going is terrific and will be ready, but how can we best make sure the boys are ready? Tell me to back off or provide advice to help all of our crew have a great trek.

It reads like plain English to me. If I were to rewrite it, I might say: 1. Based on what restrictions are in place for the coming weeks, we can not be ready to start before July 1st, so all events prior to July 1st are cancelled. You will have options for future use. 2. We do not have enough information at this time that would lead us to cancel any activities beyond July 1st. As long as nobody says "no," we will work toward having a season, if shortened. 3. With all the best intentions, we want to have treks starting July 1st. HOWEVER 4. Based on the fact that we have had to cancel everything before July 1st, you have every reason to worry that we might cancel more. 5. What we are trying to do is a risk - that we are pushing ahead with plans to start July 1. We know that is a risk, but we don't know how much of a risk that is. If you are willing to take the risk and wait with us for more information, you will either be rewarded with a trek, or you will have to suffer the loss of some money and time, along with the trek. 6. In the event that we do have the trek, it may not be all we planned before. There may be new restrictions and fewer options. If we don't have the trek, we will try to work with you to make something work so you get the opportunity to enjoy Philmont. 7. On June 1st, the best we will be able to tell you is that it is either cancelled, or we will continue to plan to have your trek without a guarantee that it won't be cancelled June 2, or the day before your trek. 8. So, the options are to either run the string out and take the risk with us, or step out now and let's plan to work together for the betterment of Philmont, The BSA, and your scouts.

You are right that Philmont stated they intend to make updates May 15 and June 1. Which is tough to hold fast, when the updates from government do not come in regular intervals. I hope to see something from Philmont today, but am not certain it will be complete. Too many questions unanswered by government officials and those at the BSA who need to respond to an ever-shifting landscape.

Wait. They have a 14 day quarantine? Why didn’t our crew leaders know that? We arrive on the 6th of July for a trek start on the 8th and support from Blue Sky while there. I can’t easily reconcile the message to the boys of “yeah that’s the rules, but we decided they don’t apply to us.”

Our crew is 3:1 scout to scouter ratio. That’s better than the NM requests. We will be able to trek with each individual in own tent. Though BlueSky has us sharing hotel rooms and transportation. But we will be flying in, with a change of planes en route. I still don’t have a read on if that will make us acceptable to trek or not. And then if we will have restrictions upon returning. Selfishly I want to go for my boy - and admittedly a bit for me. But it seems we may not get a definite yes or no until we step onto the trail. It feels like the winds can shift that quickly.

The question about the fever may be different now. Would any symptom that could possibly be related to Covid be handled differently? For other illnesses, we have clear medicines and treatments. For Covid, we do not. Does that mean we will have to treat the possibility of Covid infection differently? While most might say "he has just a regular fever" on the trek, and ignore the possibility of Covid, would the BSA set parameters for what we "should" do to shift liability over to the adult who makes that determination?

And we lost one adult. Down to 6 scouts and 2 adults. Worried now about what happens if anyone gets a fever on the trail - or in the two weeks before the trek. How will Philmont pre-screen or handle those possibilities? I hear that on the 15th, we will get more information on specifics of Philmont's plan.

We just heard that Philmont after July 1 is a go. I also heard other high adventure are going too. While I get your worries about someone getting sick during, that is a risk we have to take any time. Yes, it is more serious now - with air travel to the location. The other risk we will have is that there could be a 14 day self quarantine upon return. Personally, I do not think that going ahead with this is the safest or sanest option. However, my son and I have decided to go ahead, knowing he will not get this chance again. Next summer is his last before college and knows he will want to be home and working all summer before departing. We are - at this time - betting that the risk to us and those we know will be low.

Following along here. We are operating under the assumption that our Philmont trek will happen for us in July (12 Day). However, I don't know how it can. There is such a risk of a second wave shutting down the country again. It seems a short window to get in a real couple of shakedown hikes, and not all trails are open. Even the AT is still closed, I believe. There is such a need to train, to travel, to shop, to prep, and with a high likelihood that forced closures will happen again - it is tough to ask crews to put up the time and money. Like I said, we are planning as if we are going, as much as we can. Hoping Blue Sky does not drop us for non payment May 1. Hoping to get decent airline tickets, etc. And I expect the May 1 announcement will be that Philmont will pushback some early treks, and have the later ones on schedule. But what happens if they cancel those later one? I've reserved some cabins on a big loop trail here so that our crew can sill do a 5+ might and over 50 mile trek during that time if Philmont gets cancelled.