InquisitiveScouter

Our "honor campers" sleep in staff cabins and camp buildings during Ordeals. Usually only candidates and a few Elangomats sleep outdoors. Great way to set the example, huh? Our lodge fellowship weekend draw is that the youth conduct massive video game sessions well into the night. That's the only reason my son wants to go...gggrrrrr

If everyone can be "elected", then there is no bestowing of honor. Nor any incentive for a Scout to change his behavior/model others so as to be worthy of selection.

I call it the "self-licking ice cream cone" SLICC Our lodge does zero service projects, other than for council. And nothing for units outside of elections. They conduct inductions/ceremonies, go to conclave and NOAC, use captive labor at Ordeals to set up tents and flies/ do general maintenance for Summer Camp. Members (adult and youth) our lodge repeatedly use the phrase "sash and dash", which I decry. An Arrowman's first duty is to his unit. For our last election, they actually sent this guidance out to unit leaders..."The question of how the Scout will deal with membership should be considered before approving them for eligibility." and "Will the Scout do their Ordeal and then never be involved with OA again (i.e. the "sash and dash")?" [Copied and pasted directly from the Lodge email.] Here was our Troop reply: "As a long-time member of the Order of the Arrow, I want to ask you (and, through you as Chapter Adviser, all lodge members) to reconsider using phrases like "sash and dash", or asking unit leaders to evaluate whether members will become involved with the lodge in order for unit leaders to approve candidates. Those are not, nor ever have been, considerations for election. If a lodge or chapter election team instructs the Scouts of our Troop to consider these as criteria for selection, I will stop the election immediately. The questions and inappropriate additional criteria show a misunderstanding of the mission and purpose of the Order. https://oa-bsa.org/about/mission-purpose Youth membership in the Order is an honor bestowed by the youth members of the unit onto one of their own. The lodge has absolutely no say in it, nor can any lodge add criteria for selection. If an eligible Scout does not wish to be considered for election, that is fine. Whether an elected Scout chooses to undertake the Ordeal is irrelevant. His election is an honor in and of itself. If the Scout does complete the Ordeal, he is a member of the Order of the Arrow for as long as he maintains a membership in the BSA. Whether a Scout chooses to maintain membership in the lodge after his induction is irrelevant. Order of the Arrow membership does not depend on lodge membership. An Arrowman's primary duty is to his unit, not the lodge. That this ideal is not prevalent in our lodge is troubling."

Amen to that!

Yikes

"The Peter Principle is based on the logical idea that competent employees will continue to be promoted, but at some point will be promoted into positions for which they are incompetent, and they will then remain in those positions because of the fact that they do not demonstrate any further competence that would get them recognized for additional promotion. According to the Peter Principle, every position in a given hierarchy will eventually be filled by employees who are incompetent to fulfill the job duties of their respective positions."

Most of the really good, conscientious, dedicated-to-the-movement professionals (DE's) I have met over the years, got disillusioned or burned out, then left. I understand this is a common thing, but have no data to back it up. What is the turnover rate for DE's?? Most (not all) of the professionals I have become acquainted with, who have advanced further, were there for themselves or the hope of future big money as an SE or some position at region/national. I think this mentality has finally borne its fruit. Two exchanges really stick in my head... My first SE, in the council I grew up in, tried to recruit me as a DE when I was graduating college. I told him "Thanks, but I am going to be a pilot in the Air Force!" He replied, "Now there's a waste of a good education." I never spoke to him again. (And was an officer and pilot for 26 years 😜 ) When I retired, and came to this council, looking to get involved, the current SE tried to recruit me as a DE (and later as full time Camp Director). I asked him what was his biggest headache in the council... He said, "Volunteers who put on the uniform and think they are equal to me." I chose neither to befriend him, nor work for him in any hired capacity.

Concur... I've often thought there should be a lower age limit for Eagle Scout. And there are many things for the 16 yo to do...High Adventure, Hornadays, National Medal for Outdoor Achievement, Supernova Awards (Scouts and Venturing...5 total), Congressional Award for Youth (up to Gold Medal) (although not a Scouting program), Summit, Religious Awards for particular faith...

And the second pic above is a special forces unit...SEAL, Delta, Green Beret???...average age for those groups is in the 30's

Eagle94, I agree that our young military personnel are having experiences which make them grow up much faster. However, after 26 years on active duty, I can tell you the 18-25 year olds do need "adult" supervision. As a squadron commander (normal first level in Air Force that has UCMJ authority) I spent a great deal of time handling legal and readiness issues for this age cohort. Drugs/DUI/crimes/security violations/domestic issues/financial problems/mental health, etc. Most "kids" entering the military are quite unprepared for the military culture. Something that would be a minor offense in the civilian world (or no offense at all) can have serious consequences in the military. The research is becoming clear that our brains are not fully formed until we are between 25 - 30...specifically some areas of the frontal cortex. This area is the seat of executive function, responsible for processing what our actions should be in Situations that involve planning or decision making Situations that involve error correction or trouble shooting Situations where responses are not well-rehearsed or contain novel sequences of actions Dangerous or technically difficult situations Situations that require overcoming strong habitual response or resisting temptation ^^^^^Sounds like Scouting to me... Although I have not seen empirical evidence for this, I claim that Scouting is a "rehearsal" for those areas, and that, through having experiences in these areas at a younger age makes a young adult much more suited making good decisions in situations above. This is why people want to hire Eagle Scouts, why they are given higher rank when entering the military, and why, in later life, they are usually more "productive" citizens. Remember all the crazy stuff you did at this age? It's a wonder I survived, even as an Eagle Scout This is why I am involve in Scouting. I want young people to have experiences in a relatively well-controlled environment which will help them develop before they hit those critical 18-25 years, where their decisions will have more significant consequences. If you have the time, here is a good read https://www.rainbowrehab.com/executive-functioning/

I wish I could say the same...

How much would any of you think this is worth?? My guess...starting bid $5 million https://trademarkangel.com/can-i-buy-someone-elses-trademark/ https://trademarkangel.com/why-is-a-trademark-watch-important/ http://licensingbsa.org/trademarks/

Hmmmm... https://nycscouting.org/townhall/ https://www.syracuse.com/state/2020/05/sex-abuse-lawsuits-filed-against-3-boy-scouts-of-america-councils-in-upstate-ny.html

How so?

DuctTape for National Commissioner!!

Our Troop was just cutting the apron strings from a Family model when I joined (my son crossed over). The Scoutmaster who was leading that effort at the time recruited me... After about a year of transition from Advanced Cub Scouts to youth led/patrol method, the old guard of the committee stopped supporting his efforts and he left. One of the old guard stepped in to be SM, and tried to return to the old ways. It was a disaster. I appealed to our Commissioner and DE. The Commissioner tried to help educate the parents and Committee on what Scouting is, but it fell on deaf ears. We lost a third of the Scouts. I was close to leaving. The SM had family issues that pulled him away, so I agreed to step in as SM with the understanding that we would do the Scouting program...not Family Scouts. I preach the Scout gospel to our committee monthly...they all agree, and trust, to get out of the way. It is working, and in two years (this June) we have made great progress. Troop has more than doubled in size. Parents are happy with the results. I cannot go back to a Family model. I will go with you Eagle94. Where will we go? Ditto...I have made the mental leap of separating Scouting from the BSA. You do not need the BSA to have Scouting. So I live in a world of Scouting while wearing a BSA uniform to facilitate the movement. But BSA currently has the market share, and the crown jewel...Eagle Scout. Ha! I was just thinking that!

I got the survey. But I remember nothing about Family camping...my responses were primarily in favor of opening the program to girls, and to keep it separate-gendered so as not to be a distraction for youth. I have participated in co-ed Scouting in Sweden, and boy-girl issues were always at the forefront. I have friends in Scouting organizations in Germany, Luxembourg, Canada, and Namibia...same story...intermingling the genders has some advantages for "socialization" and learning to interact, but relationships/love spats/breakups tend to be always rearing their ugly heads. I have seen the same in two Venturing crews. Scouting can be difficult when there are several elephants in the room. And yes, most of my issues as a unit leader come from new parents who do not understand that Scouts is not an extension of Cub Scouts.

Thunderbird, I have it on good non-arrogant authority from Eagledad that "They are doing it wrong." Would you be so kind as to relay?...lol

Not really... "Published" is the key word here. When councils or national "publish" more stringent rules, we are bound to follow them, and do. (helmets, life jackets, Safe Swim Defense, etc.) Our council has not published anything for units...only district and council events. If you read the FAQ, the inference is that councils must give you a green light before you meet again. And I do not go around enforcing our council's interpretations on other councils' programs...I only speak up when that council might be going against "published" National prescriptions.

Not so fast!! https://www.cbsnews.com/video/hats-off-to-the-beret/

Yup

Agreed. But we should all be careful to differentiate between what is printed in "official" publications (G2SS, Scouter Code of Conduct, Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat, Climb on Safely, etc.) versus a posting to an FAQ on their website. I, for one, do not take website postings as official policy or procedure. My adult application says "I have read and affirm that I accept the Declaration of Religious Principle. I agree to comply with the rules and regulations of the BSA and the local council, including the Scouter Code of Conduct." Nothing mentioned there about BSA website FAQ's.

You are making many conclusions from such a short post. And please notice, I didn't say "our unit." Yes, "babysitting." 14-17 year olds want to hang out with their buddies, not teach the basics to 10.5 to 12 year olds. The Scouts who enjoy this part of leading are few. "The unit leaders are doing it wrong." Maybe...but I think it is more the parents who are pushing their girls to earn Eagle for the college resume. Where the rest of your rant is going, it's hard to see...maybe your horse is a bit too high?

And also... "When units with different chartered organizations do activities together, this becomes a district or council event and requires council approval." Our DE is going to get tired my future requests for approval. We occasionally do co-unit camping together. Last summer, we did a co-unit canoe trek...guess that was then a district/council event....should I ask for forgiveness?? We do inter-unit campfires, when possible, on trips to non-Scout properties...this is an "activity"...do we have to get approval? On our Pioneering camping trip, when we build a Monkey Bridge (no higher than 6 feet!) and the other unit camping near us wants to have a go..."Wait! I have to get my council's approval!" Notices will follow the lines of my usual emails..."We intend to do X unless you advise otherwise." Most of them go unanswered...