InquisitiveScouter

After being involved with the program since the late 70's, and earning Eagle Scout myself, I always, I mean ALWAYS, smh at those stories of "Scout earns every Merit Badge" Sorry...off topic... Do you think the gender separation is what has kept BSA on life support these past few decades? https://virtueonline.org/canada-death-canadian-scouting

About 10 years ago, some families (US citizens) living in Ottawa, Canada, (who had a member working at the US Embassy) wanted to have a Girl Scout troop. (Lone Scouting with BSA is alive and well for US citizens there.) They called up the national office in Manhattan, NY, to inquire about it, and were told they could not start a GSUSA unit there. The staff at GSUSA suggested they all join Girl Guides of Canada (GGC). The parents pushed back, citing GSUSA units at other embassies around the world, through USA Girls Scouts Overseas https://www.usagso.org/ A staff member (who wished to remain anonymous) revealed that GSUSA has an agreement with Girl Guides of Canada that GSUSA will not sell cookies in Canada and compete with GGC https://www.girlguides.ca/web/ The parents asked if they could start a unit, with a written agreement with national office that they would not sell cookies. Their girls wanted to camp, hike, and earn badges...not sell cookies. The national office agreed. It is all about the money. Unfortunately, three years later, the Troop folded when the only parents who would take them camping transferred to a new assignment.

@CynicalScouter, good read, thanks. I do believe they have a strong case. If the court decides in their favor, one could also then make the argument for a new Scouting organization, with application for a Congressional Charter, which would be open to all, regardless of sex or gender. If Congress denied the charter, one could sue under the 14th Amendment's equal protections clause. Of course, the sad reality in our country is that access to the justice system requires prohibitive sums of money.

From the GSUSA Charter... §80302. Purposes The purposes of the corporation are— (1) to promote the qualities of truth, loyalty, helpfulness, friendliness, courtesy, purity, kindness, obedience, cheerfulness, thriftiness, and kindred virtues among girls, as a preparation for their responsibilities in the home and for service to the community; (2) to direct and coordinate the Girl Scout movement in the United States and territories and possessions of the United States; and (3) to fix and maintain standards for the movement that will inspire the rising generation with the highest ideals of character, patriotism, conduct, and attainment. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title36/subtitle2/partB/chapter803&edition=prelim One could make the case that, even by marketing to girls as "scouts", the BSA is infringing on the Congressional Charter of the GSUSA.

“We but mirror the world. All the tendencies present in the outer world are to be found in the world of our body. If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. This is the divine mystery supreme. A wonderful thing it is and the source of our happiness. We need not wait to see what others do.” – Mahatma Gandhi A good first step would be eliminating the labels. For the most part, I endeavor not to use them. It is a pernicious system that has taken hold in our society...this labeling. It is in everything we do, including on our applications for Scouting. I think I'll take my own advice (and Gandhi's), and to help reduce discrimination, I will stop answering these questions everywhere I encounter them. Using these as metrics for demographics and to force diversity only perpetuates using them.

@yknot, thanks for letting us know of some of the consequences. I briefed our Troop Committee tonight on this, and, although here in these forums I have fervently expressed my personal views, I did present this in a neutral and diplomatic manner to them. There was a mixed reception, as expected, and the dialogue exchanged was exactly along some of the lines presented here...understanding a need, but not accepting the implementation. I asked them all to reserve final judgment (as I am doing) until the MB and rank requirements are formally released, which I guess we all expect within the next nine days. We may get a product then that is somewhat different from what we see now. I also have not seen the rank requirements, nor the MB counselor notes. I would ask that you all keep your ear to the ground and share any official developments as they come in. According to my faith, I wish you all a blessed Christmas. If I could put a vaccination in your stocking, I would! See you after the holidays, Inquisitive Scouter

You also show that you do not know what "civil discourse" means. I am trying to enhance my understanding of the requirements for this Merit Badge, the motives behind it, and it's intended purpose. Reading for comprehension is essential to enhancing your understanding of someone's point of view. How about another point of view? Would you listen to Dr. Thomas Sowell?

It's a metaphor. And "...a portion of what remains..." does not mean the entire organization. Please read for comprehension. It is vitally important in order to relate to others. Any arguments are welcome, as long they can back up positions with facts and logic. Otherwise they are just opinions. And opinions are like a certain part of the anatomy...everyone has one, and they all stink. And Dr. Jordan Peterson is a "darling" because he uses research, facts, and clinical experience to back up his arguments. In other words, he follows the science, instead of using feelings and perceptions as valid evidence.

You will see this happening more frequently in the future.

Everyone is different from them.

And don't forget the left-handed!! https://dailyillini.com/uncategorized/2020/02/27/left-handed-right-handed-world/

You forgot ability, ethnicity, faith and financial background. And that is the crux of my point. In listing some groups, you are showing bias against others. Ultimately, the badge is hypocritical. The "important" (sic) terms of "diversity", "equity", "inclusion", "bigotry" and "intersectionality" are all based on the controversy whirling around a current social agenda. "There are real problems with this agenda, however. The first is that it’s dangerous, in exactly the manner it is hypothetically designed to fight. The argument made by those who are truly prejudiced has always been that the differences between groups are so large that discrimination, isolation, segregation and even open conflict–including war and genocide–are necessary, for the safety of whatever group they are part of and are hypothetically protecting. Why is it any less risky for the argument to be made in the reverse manner? The claim that group-based differences are so important that they must take substantive priority during hiring and promotion merely risks validating the opposite claim." https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/blog-posts/lie-of-diversity/ This merit badge is a poison that will kill off a portion of what remains of the Boy Scouts of America.

I'm not really sure you are being serious. If so, why bother with the MB?

And Duty to God is one of the Ideals of Scouting. Ideals – The ideals of Scouting are spelled out in the Scout Oath, the Scout Law, the Scout motto, and the Scout slogan. The Scout measures themselves against these ideals and continually tries to improve. The goals are high, and, as they reach for them, they have some control over what and who they become. BSA has not changed the ideals. This Merit Badge attempts to. And, since earning the MB is not required of Scouts anyway, unless they wish to attain Eagle Scout, I'm more interested in the rank requirements they are talking about, which haven't been released yet.

Yes, but there are no wrong answers to these questions. A Scout and her parents define her duty to God, and you cannot contradict her in any way.

Now there's an idea! How about a DE&I Award. Same requirements, and NOT REQUIRED for Eagle Scout. Also, no requirements in the early rank structure.

No, we don't. Scouting simply recognizes awards sponsored by various faiths.

Thanks, @fred8033 the best line in the first paper is "But perhaps holding onto old-world beliefs of biological race is implicitly supporting the ideas that make possible the manifestations of “societal race” " The only way to stop the "manifestations of societal race" is to do away with the notion that such a thing exists at all. So the true definition of racism is "any belief that race exists."

Asked and answered?

A suggested PR release from BSA: Scouts don't care about what you look like, what your parents did, or where you're from. We care about your CHARACTER. That's why Scouting is impressive and why Scouts in every country have been a force for good in the world for over 100 years, because we only care about what matters, and what matters is who you are on the inside.

A to-the-point editorial today by Tucker Carlson on FoxNews. Find and read/view The military goes woke, and the consequences could be disastrous "Over time, identity politics will destroy our country. No nation can remain unified for long if people are encouraged to think of themselves as members of competing ethnic groups first and citizens second. Countries need a reason to hang together; unity doesn't happen by accident. The fixation on race that has seized our leadership class guarantees permanent disunity. It's terrifying if you think about it, but it could be much worse." "The military, we have all been told since childhood, doesn't care what you look like, what your parents did, or where you're from. They care about your performance. That's why the U.S. military is impressive and why they've been able to keep us from being invaded, because they only care about what matters, and what matters is protecting the United States. Not any more."

@Greeneagle5, While the idea for the project itself is a good one, your friend may be cool on the idea for reasons already mentioned, and possibly because of the idea that "...this project could be continued in future years..." As adult leaders, it is inappropriate for us to commit the unit to any ongoing (or possibly perpetual) projects. Program planning is the purview of the Patrol Leaders Council. And it is for the PLC to decide whether to undertake an ongoing project. (That is most certainly off limits for an Eagle Scout candidate.) I even caution our PLC during annual planning that, if they venture down that road, a future PLC may decide to end a "commitment" they make. That is, a current PLC may not tie the hands of a future PLC. Over 15 years ago, a long gone PLC (or leader) signed us up for an adopt-a-highway. At the past seven PLC Annual Planning Conferences (we do planning semi-annually, actually) when they review our previous year and come up with a list of their desired activities, I always remind them that they are not committed to any specific activity (like a perceived "Troop tradition"). Me: "You are not obligated to do an Annual Troop Picnic, or the Annual Thanksgiving Turkey Cookout, or the two-times-a-year Adopt-a-Highway clean up. You can pick other activities if you want." PLC: "Really? We don't HAVE to do those??" Me: "Nope...don't HAVE to do them. Remember, the Committee can support almost ANYTHING you want to do, but you don't have time to do EVERYTHING you want to do." There usually follows some discussion of past instances of the "traditional" activities (nostalgia), followed with comparing priorities on their list of "want to's." PLC: "Well, we voted and decided we still want to do those things again this year." Me: "I support you 100%, and I'll recommend the Troop Committee to approve."

No way! I just found it today. Maybe my computer hacking skilz are getting better

Lol...then someone is asleep at their "narrative steering wheel". It's been there since June.

@MattR for gauging, that video was not removed by moderators at my.scouting.org https://discussions.scouting.org/t/diversity-and-inclusion-mb/172457/30