InquisitiveScouter

Not if you are shot out of a cannon!! Enough initial velocity, and you could wrap around that bar no problem...of course, the force required to get to that velocity would probably injure the rider... Now, to help that kid in the video, he had the counterweight on top...no such thing on the chain swing...

Yikes! At $500K per (or five years in the hoosegow, pokey, slammer, etc.) that could potentially bump up the victim fund. But, I believe, since this is a federal court, monies from fines imposed only go to the US Treasury, and, so, only Congress could direct the disposition of those penalties to fund the fund. Good luck with that! Literally, an Act of Congress.

@SiouxRanger, Where you stand depends on where you sit 😜 The correct answer, from where I sit (at the unit level), is that the CO owns everything, and ultimately decides the disposition of all property and money. I'll elaborate on that, so that others can dissect the argument if they wish. From a legal standpoint (I'm no lawyer, but I actually did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express a few nights ago!), only persons and corporations can legally own property. Therefore, some corporation owns that property, including the money. Only two corporations (hopefully) can make a claim to yours, your CO and the local council. Take one piece of property in particular: your Troop trailer. Since that is a motor vehicle titled in your state, that state-issued title establishes ownership. Look at the title, and tell us who is the titular owner? (It should be your CO.) That is the only entity the state will recognize with claim to that property, and whose rights the state will uphold regarding it. (NOTE for all: if any of your troop's trailers, vehicles, or land is titled to an individual, you should take steps to correct that.) You can look at another example with money (or goods) through another question: If someone makes a cash donation to your Troop (or a donation of goods), and they ask for a receipt for tax purposes, who gives them that receipt, and what entity's EIN is on the receipt so the donor can legally claim that on their federal taxes? (NOTE: only the organization name is required on the receipt, not the EIN, but it helps ) https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/charitable-contributions-written-acknowledgments "A donor cannot claim a tax deduction for any contribution of cash, a check or other monetary gift unless the donor maintains a record of the contribution in the form of either a bank record (such as a cancelled check) or a written communication from the charity (such as a receipt or letter) showing the name of the charity, the date of the contribution and the amount of the contribution." Technically, you cannot write "Troop XX" on the receipt, since that is not the "name of the charity." We have always written the EIN (and name) of our chartering organization on on receipts for donations (with coordination, understanding, and permission.) This establishes "ownership" of those goods and cash. (We provide copies of any receipts to the CO for their tax purposes also. If you were to write "Boy Scouts of America" on the receipt, then, technically, you'd have to turn those goods or cash over to national for use; if you wrote "George Washington Council" on the receipt, then you'd have to turn over those goods or monies over to council for their use. SO, if the Troop should cease operations, the local council has zero "claim" to that property. It's all under the CO. This is the established pattern of behavior we have followed, with substantial documentation to demonstrate. (Side NOTE: check your bank account info also!! Your bank account should (or must?) have an EIN associated with it on file at the bank. We use our CO's. If you have used your local council's EIN, then, the council could "claim" those funds should the Troop cease.) A positive experience: Our Troop recently changed CO's (within the past two years). Things were a bit tangled. The CO was a PTO at a local elementary school (up to sixth grade), but the relationship was not strong, as most of our Scouts no longer attended the school, and the Troop rarely met there, because the local school district charged fees for each usage, which became burdensome. We located a church who wished to own a Troop, and got a signed Memorandum of Agreement from the PTO to move the Troop number, gear, and monies (indicated by bank name and account number, not amount 😛) to the new organization. The Troop trailer was titled to a Committee Chair from years past, so we had to work to transfer this to the new CO (somewhat costly). For the bank account, we simply showed the MOA to the bank to change the info on the account. And we also provided the MOA with the new Charter Agreement to our local council, so we could retain the historic Troop number (and our tenure!). This made the transition smooth. It took a good deal of coordination, even though all parties were amenable to the move. A negative experience: A local crew did not recharter. Their CO elected to keep the Troop trailer (it was titled in their name), but made the mistake of calling the council to ask what to do with the bank account. Of course, the council said "Write us a check and close the account. We will keep that money for you for a period of time (unspecified, of course), and, should you be able to re-establish a crew, we'll give it back to you." By the time any of the concerned parents and crew members asked about it, it was gone. They had the idea to donate this to another local charity in need, since it was monies from their dues and fund raising work. When they inquired if they could get it back to do so, they were told it was raised only for the purposes of "Scouting" and so it could only be used for that. (I'd beg to differ, but that's a topic for another post...) This made the many of the parents, committee members, and youth very upset, as some of the money had been paid as dues to provide for their recharter (which did not happen), and they thought they should at least have that returned to them. Finally, since you renew your charter agreement every year, please read it thoroughly! http://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Annual-Charter-Agreement-Charter-Organizations-.pdf The current charter agreement says two things in particular (that a CO must do) : - Conduct the Scouting program consistent with BSA rules, regulations, and policies. Located on the My.Scouting website and online at: www.scouting.org/about/membership-standards/. {Which, when you drill down takes you here... https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Rules_Regulations_Sept20.pdf} - Be a good steward of unit resources and adhere to BSA Fiscal Policies. ie. Unit Money Earning projects {No link is provided in the Charter Agreement, but here are the BSA Fiscal Policies as of March 2021: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_-BSA_Units_20210513.pdf} If you read those three documents, they should further clarify or muddy the waters for you 😜 Hope this helps!

Is that per POC?

Awesome! Always need strong committee members working the administrative side! If your want further advice, sing out 🤪🤪🤪

Now on to seven or so years of Scouts!

This^^^^^^^^^

We would do a "dog pile!" for fun and celebration. When a Scout did something great, someone would yell "DOG PILE!" If the celebrated was a smaller-statured Scout, then, usually, one of the older Scouts would be the first to tackle the celebrated person and be on elbows and knees to help bear the weight of the jumping and wiggling crowd on top. We also had a safe word, "PINEAPPLE!" If anyone yelled it, we had to stop immediately. It was usually the older Scout if the weight began to be too much for him to protect the one on the bottom. This was never used as punishment...only for celebrating. Here's an example... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4inC-injkB4&ab_channel=SportsOnTheSide

Yes, looks like a medal from a historic trail. What council is the Scout in? You can find what your local trails are here, then look up the medals on Google to ID it. https://tap.scouting.org/bsa-historic-trails-index/ Or here... trailmedal.com

Yes, looks like a medal from a historic trail. What council is the Scout in? You can find what your local trails are here, then look up the medals on Google to ID it. https://tap.scouting.org/bsa-historic-trails-index/

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” ― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain Guess where we are now? 😜

Edited and removed...thanks! I conflated that with info from source which says BSA camps offering certified Trek Leaders as guides are certified by the state...and required by the camp. Not required for unit treks...sorry for the confusion.

Appalachian Trail... any section hike is good. No group limits, lots of in-town options, etc. Here is a good tool... https://nps.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6298c848ba2a490588b7f6d25453e4e0 Numerous loops are available from state forests and parks trails all along the AT to make logistics easier. Adirondacks... multiple options. Crew sizes are limited in areas. Cranberry Lake 50 Trail (actually, a series of interconnected trails) is a good option. https://cranberrylake50.org/ This trail is a circuit, so parking and logistics is easier. It's a long way from Northern VA 😜 Or there is the Northville Placid Trail, 135 miles total, so you could do a section hike if that is too long. http://nptrail.org/ Poconos...the Pinchot Trail (interconnected system) is good...and camping in the State Forest is free (and you can camp almost anywhere). Advertised at 23 miles, but with interconnecting forest roads and side trails, you can easily put together a much longer trek. http://elibrary.dcnr.pa.gov/GetDocument?docId=1753357&DocName=dcnr_20033753.pdf Alleghenys...Laurel Highlands Trail http://elibrary.dcnr.pa.gov/GetDocument?docId=1743399&DocName=LARI_ParkMap.pdf , and you can do a whitewater trip in Ohiopyle on the Youghiogheny River (pronounced YOCK-a-gainy) You could also drop in to Pittsburgh and pay @qwazsea visit Have backpacked various lengths on all these...no big issues that proper planning wouldn't overcome. Enjoy!

We don't participate primarily because this is where we see some of the most egregious violations. It is bad enough at summer camp when the camp's adult leaders don't even follow the rules. Thunderstorms is one of the biggest issues. "Yes, I hear the thunder, but no, we aren't closing down the program areas... that storm is not going to come over us." SMH Here are the results of a similar incident... https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-jun-16-na-scouts16-story.html

@RememberSchiff, $25 from 1911 in today's dollars would be $727.87. https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1911?amount=25 That's $17.33 per person per day. Pretty good! But with our advances in food production, storage, and logistics over the century, and changing it to a more "modern" list (we rarely cook with lard or butter anymore), I'd bet this cost would be much less (than $727.87) today. Thanks for sharing!

Registering in your state in part of the 501c3 non-profit establishment process. You are creating a corporation. The corporation is the legal entity which can own property and a bank account. The corporation becomes the sponsor for the unit. You will have to file several documents (for a fee, of course) to complete the process, but it is not overly complicated. I'll ask the legal eagles to weigh in, but I understand that the assets of the corporation can be at risk, but the assets of the "officers" of the corporation are not. If that were the case, wouldn't any and every national BSA corporate officer be at risk to lose their fortunes and property? You place your personal assets at risk by your own intentional acts and/or negligence. If you want to avoid all risks associated with Scouting, then my advice is to avoid Scouting. You bear risk as a leader when you lead a unit, no matter which corporation is the sponsor. Here a primer on some of the issues: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nonprofit-directors-personal-liability-32357.html This is also one of the big reasons that the bankruptcy and any lawsuits against the BSA cannot touch the pension fund...

There are quite a few...we could start a new thread on that 😜

Institution Head signs the Charter Agreement (Charter Organization Line) COR Signs CC Signs Last signature is a local council rep...our DE has signed in the past. http://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Annual-Charter-Agreement-Charter-Organizations-.pdf There is no order of signature, so anyone can sign first and then route in turn. Our council accepts electronic signatures and scanned copies, but you may want to check with your council to see if they want original signature document. Start by asking your DE what they prefer. Happy Scouting

Yes, exactly, and so we just used them "on our own." But, I have had Cubs camping at locations that did not meet the criteria ("Drinking water from an approved source is provided at convenient locations.") We brought our own, and deemed this to meet the criterion. The appraisal form specifically says "This site appraisal form is to be used by the local BSA council to evaluate pack overnight family camping locations. It should be kept on file in the council office for local unit reference and is periodically reviewed for accuracy." The three councils I dealt with had no forms "...on file in the council office for local unit reference..." It is not a MUST for councils, it is a SHOULD, and that was probably their mindset in not having them in-house. https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/430-90218-PackOvernightForm_Fillable.pdf

Barry, not speaking for @yknot, but in my experience with three different councils for Cub camping, when I asked about council approval for Cub camping locations, I had to school them on the requirement for council approval. Then, they (usually the Council Camping Committee Staff Advisor) just told me to use the criteria on the form, and if it met them, we were approved (that is, the unit provides their own appraisal, even though this is prohibited.)

Another provision many councils do not support units for...

Don't think you will find one. Totally agree with anyone who sees vaguely written policies as a problem. And yes, G2SS and other policies are vague in many areas. You all realize the G2SS and many other BSA policies are written vaguely intentionally, right? It gives the BSA more legal wiggle room if things go wonky, or so I'm told by my lawyer friends. I pointed out many of these discrepancies to council and national reps, and this messenger has been shot multiple times.

OK, so the permission slip is NOT REQUIRED by BSA, except for flying activities. This is written right on the form itself. "The recommended use of this form is for the consent and approval for Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, and guests to participate in a trip, expedition, or activity. It is required for use with flying plans." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/19-673.pdf If your unit policies or your CO requires it (or even your council may dictate), then it is REQUIRED. Now, having previously had a law professor as our CC, I picked his brain on lots of stuff...specifically this form. His legal advice for our unit was to require the form, if for no other reason than as a demonstration of due diligence and duty of care. https://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/due-diligence.html https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=599

No. The reason is that your CO must approve all adult leaders. For example, since a CO may exclude unit leaders from serving their unit who do not meet with their own religious or sexual orientation standards, you cannot simply pull a leader from nearby troop. "Registration Requirements The chartered organization representative, or in their absence the executive officer of the chartered organization, must approve the registration of the unit’s adult leaders. Registration includes: Completion of application including criminal background check and mandatory Youth Protection training Volunteer Screening Database check Current Youth Protection training is required for leaders when renewing their registration or at unit charter renewal. Adult program participants must register as adults and follow Youth Protection policies." https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/#a Also, BSA policy (promulgated through their COVID FAQ and not through the G2SS, so good luck enforcing that one local and national councils) forbids inter-unit overnight activities without approval from council. "Q: If my camp is cancelled, can my unit get together with other units and have our own camp? No. Chartering organizations play an important role in the program and activities for their chartered units. Chartering organizations promote well-planned unit program for the units they charter and encourage their units to have active outdoor unit programs. Chartering organizations are not authorized to plan, promote, or deliver programs for units outside of their charter. It is the role of councils to plan long-term or resident camps and the role of councils or districts to plan camporees (short-term camps) and other outings following National Camp Accreditation Program standards. Units with different chartered organizations that wish to hold activities together must have council approval. In addition, some states require such activities to be licensed." https://www.scouting.org/coronavirus/covid-19-faq/ However, I'm of the mindset that if your CO approves (even only verbally through your COR), then you are good to go.

I meant overall for the entire camp...if you jack up the prices 150%, you can expect utilization to fall... (And it's only $17 a head if you have 12...) Our camp did the same thing several years ago...in addition to putting in electric and gas meters on each facility. You pay a rental fee up front, and an electricity and gas usage bill at the end based on the readings (with a little extra tacked on) Now, do you have any idea what it costs to purchase and install power and gas meters on 8 buildings? What do you think the payback time on that cost is? SMH So, instead, most units will go to one of many other Scout camps within a two hour drive to get away from such nonsense, or, they primitive camp at the county park across the river at $1 per person for the weekend.