InquisitiveScouter

So, BSA Adult Application should be revised to, "Do you use illegal substances, have a dependence on or abuse alcohol or have substance abuse disorder?" Or some other legalese text, but if, and only if, there was statistical evidence that this significantly contributed to child abuse cases. Otherwise, this should be covered by the BSA Scouter Code of Conduct: "7. I confirm that I have fully disclosed and will disclose in the future any of the following: Any criminal suspicion, charges, or convictions of a crime or offense involving abuse, violence, sexual misconduct, or any misconduct involving minors or juveniles • Any investigation or court order involving domestic violence, child abuse, or similar matter Any criminal charges or convictions for offenses involving controlled substances, driving while intoxicated, firearms, or dangerous weapons 8. I will not possess, distribute, transport, consume, or use any of the following items prohibited by law or in violation of any Scouting rules, regulations, and policies: • Alcoholic beverages or controlled substances, including marijuana • Concealed or unconcealed firearms, fireworks, or explosives • Pornography or materials containing words or images inconsistent with Scouting values 9. If I am taking prescription medications with the potential of impairing my functioning or judgment, I will not engage in activities that would put youth at risk, including driving or operating equipment."

We were at our camp for a district event, and one of our Scouts found a bag of marijuana on the ground in a high traffic area. We gave it to the Ranger and reported it to the SE. I asked the SE if he wanted me to contact authorities. He said, "No, they would handle it." Ranger had friends in LE, and he said he would give it to them for destruction. Ranger also said they would not have police respond, as nothing would result from an investigation, and the local LE was overburdened anyway. Sounded fishy to me, so I asked my lawyer. He said, as long as I did not know it was anyone in our unit, I had no positive duty to report. That would be up to property owners/event supervisors/hosts (i.e., council). When we returned home, I wrote an email to all parents letting them know about the issue, and let them know they could contact me or the SE with questions. (If they contacted me, then I would tell what happened again, and refer them to SE.) Ranger indicated they find makeshift paraphernalia at summer camp quite often. I have run across same at other camps while exploring hiking paths. Sad... But that is a "high" note...pun intended 😜

I'm not a clinician, but I see there is a difference between abuse and dependence. https://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/articles/what-is-the-difference-between-alcohol-abuse-and-dependence https://www.sutterhealth.org/ask-an-expert/answers/alcohol-abuse-vs-alcohol-dependence https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK44358/ The BSA Adult Application screens for "abuse" not "dependence". Question 6b on the right side. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-501.pdf Sounds like you might advocate to change the verbiage from "abuse" to "dependence", but I think, unless you are a clinician who deals with this distinction, you might be using the wrong terms and have a misunderstanding. If you are a health care provider who deals with this, then please, enlighten us further...

The VIPER is coming!!!

I do not cut corners. If you violate the rules, there is stern correction and a warning. Second offense, you lose your knife and access to tools for the duration of the camping trip. Third offense is a loss of Totin Rights until you can demonstrate verbal knowledge of safety practices and rules, and demonstrate practical safe use handling and care again, of all tools (basically, repeating requirements for Totin Chip.) We've had multiple first offenses (mostly from younger Scouts who forget the rules or haven't handled the tools much), rare second offenses, and no third offenses in all my days. Corrective action, education, and discipline to restore into the fold....it works, and young people respond to it. Never any public displays of this. Always done kindly and discretely...and yet, word somehow goes through the Troop like wildfire 😜 Telephone, telegraph, tell-a-Scout...

Remember, these were people who had these attitudes, made these decisions, and took these actions. They are hidden from us, mostly, and most will never face consequences from us for what they did. And people like them populate every institution we create: families, churches, schools, governments... From one Eagle Scout to another, please display your certificate and medal proudly. They are a mark of your achievement and dedication to an ideal, and who you should strive to be. If it helps, make a color copy of it and mark through "Boy Scouts of America" as a personal act of defiance and judgment. Display that! Illegitimi non carborundum!

It would say, "Well, done! Strive to follow the truth you have learned in all your days, and do what you know in your heart to be right. You will carry a burden of pain until you are done with this life. If you seek to bear it alone, it will grow. Find those who lift you up, and help you along your way. You must do this daily. Have faith that, in the life to come, perfect Justice will be done on those who have harmed you."

Loved your post, but don't quite get what you mean with this. Elaborate, please?

We are not your average unit. We try very hard to have women in the program. After about five years of cultivating this culture, we have only two moms who camp with us (ever). One is great in the outdoors and really gets the program...when Scouts run to her with problems, she asks the most important question an adult can …"Did you ask your patrol leader?" The other is not so great in the outdoors. After about three days at Summer Camp, she left. Hot meals prepared for you, daily hot showers available, and flush toilets (yes, even in the campsite), were not enough. She really did not like sleeping in a wall tent in the woods. Even though she had a fully enclosing bug net, the mosquitos, spiders, snakes, chipmunks, field mice, skunks and raccoons were too much. Although we never had an encounter with a bear, she was very anxious about it. She thought we were crazy to want to be out there with all that. She felt really bad about feeling really bad. Since we had enough adult coverage, we gave her the option to return. She was very relieved. She still does some weekend trips, but will often only be there for one night. I personally have asked many moms to come with us. Most just laugh it off. "That's not for me." When I delve deeper, in general, those who refuse usually have one of two reasons: 1) there are other younger siblings at home to take care of, or 2) the austerity of camping is daunting to them...they want flush toilets, hot showers, and four walls and a roof over their head. It took years of having my wife camp with me and the kids before she felt comfortable going with our daughter and her Venturing crew. But she got there... Here's an enlightening article... https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/what-causes-parcopresis-shy-bowel-syndrome

Officially licensed, even 😜 https://tradingpost.classb.com/official-licensed-cat-herder-patrol-patch/

Whoopie Ti Yi Yo, Git Along, Little Kitties!

Understood...and I wrestle with this daily. My wife wishes I would just leave Scouting and start beekeeping and gardening...and start a cat rescue, too (she's a cat-lady‐in-the-making). Things haven't gotten so bad that I'm ready to go so far as the cat rescue thing yet.

OK, I unquit...see how easy that is? Merry Christmas! And WOW, way to kick them while they are down, brother... I regularly talk with Scouters who are carrying loads and loads of straw. Often, since they have dedicated much of their lives to Scouting in one geographical area, they are attached to the local program in meaningful and sentimental ways. And often, they have witnessed decades of poor decision making and mismanagement which has affected them on a personal level. It's not like they are "waiting for a reason to step away." It's just that, finally, one day, there is the straw that breaks the camel's back... But you intimate in your comment that this is all on them...that somehow they are not malleable enough. No. To channel Jefferson, "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object (protecting BSA rather than Scouts) evinces a design to reduce them Scouters and the program under absolute Despotism Idiocy, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government Idiocy, and to provide new Guards for their future security Scouting.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Scouters Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain Boy Scouts of America is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States to protect the BSA instead of nurturing the Scouts under their wing." Yeah, I know, Jefferson is rolling in his grave this Christmas morning.🎅 ---------------- I have no problem with reaching the point where I am...that my membership in the BSA is under my terms, no longer theirs. BSA has lost any place of authority, moral or otherwise, and I am under no obligation to listen or follow dictates that do not focus on safeguarding and teaching Scouts. When the ludicrous extension of YPT to non-Scouting venues was first inserted surreptitiously into the G2SS FAQ, I had discussions with my DE and SE, that this was foolishness, and simply an unenforceable move to CYA. Further, I told them flat out, if this provision was ever written in, that I would not follow it simply on principle, and, if they wished, they could terminate my membership without remorse. They both agreed. That is where we are. This rule does nothing to protect young people. Do you honestly think that anyone with designs to engage in sexual activity with a minor is going to obey YPT rules anyway? This rule simply exists so that BSA can point to it in some way and say "See, we had a rule; They broke it, so we aren't liable." I seriously doubt, as others do, that BSA bears any culpability in that situation. I do pick and choose, if you will, what rules I apply and the situations I apply them in. I use my own judgement, trusting that it is superior to the clowns in Irving. When a rule exists clearly to protect Scouts, I follow it. When a rule clearly exists to protect BSA, I am selective. It is not in my purview to protect the BSA. Now, I would never publicly announce such, nor put it in writing with my name attached, because, as my SE and I understand, it would tie his hands and he would be forced to evict me, and the Scouting program would lose a valuable member the team. I also do not pontificate on these things with Scouts. They are here to focus on other things. As @SiouxRanger so eloquently put it... Want to protect kids from predators? Teach them about predators and how to avoid and fight them. Then, when we, collectively, deal with a predator, do it harshly. I, for one, would advocate that child molestation should be a capital offense. Swift and final punishment, and let the Good Lord impose His final justice. Matthew 18:6 is a good model. "But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea." Drive them out to the middle of the ocean, give them the stone necklace, and push them overboard...and broadcast it. I see this as neither cruel nor unusual. Remove the evil from among you.

You're right. I quit. Goodbye.

We have a 'Trail to Eagle' board with all the Scouts names on it. When they advance in rank, we chant "Change the Board" while they move their name up. Maybe we should change it to 'Trail to First Class.' And let the rest be icing on the cake 😜

SO, do you think the BSA will take any suggestions from these young people? I don't.

^^^^^This From G2SS: "Parents and youth are strongly encouraged to use these safeguards outside the Scouting program. Registered leaders must follow these guidelines with all Scouting youth outside of Scouting activities." What I do outside of Scouting is none of BSA's business. If my son wishes to have a friend over (with his parents' consent), and my wife is not at home for an hour or so because she is running to the grocery store, we'll be just fine, BSA, thanks... And can you imagine this conversation? "Dad, is it OK if Jimmy comes over after school? We would like to work on our science project together, and then do some gaming." "Sure son, if his parents say it is OK. Let me text his Dad real quick to verify... OK, his Dad says he will pick him up after work. Will Jimmy be staying for dinner?" "Nope, he is going out with his parents, and needs to be home by 6." "OK, fine. I'll be here working in the yard. Mom won't be home from work until about 5:30. Wait...didn't Jimmy join Troop XXX last month?" "Yeah, why?" "Sorry, you'll have to cancel. BSA says I cannot allow that, as we will not have two adults here." Actually, our humorous solution is that my son and I agree to quit BSA temporarily until the activity is done. When we are done, we mentally reactivate our membership. But, we are always Scouts. This is the kind of stuff from BSA that the average person just shakes their head at...and it kills confidence in the organization, and generates results like the OP. Oh, and where is the exception for family members? We have a Scout who just turned 18. He is a senior in High School. His brother is a sophomore. Are you telling me the older brother (now a registered ASM) cannot be at home with his younger brother after school while his parents are at work? If you interpret the text according to the letter, the answer is, ridiculously, no.

He met the one criteria most councils, districts, CO's, and units feel forced into: he had a pulse.

I do wish I could get across to all...the loss of the BSA does not mean the loss of Scouting (the program). Please separate the two "entities" in your thinking. Scouting was around before the BSA appeared, and we can continue it just fine if the BSA disappears. Is your loyalty to Scouting, the movement? Or to BSA, the corporation? (Or neither, or both 😜 ??)

I think you may have missed the point... They already ask for the Scout's email in another section... In the section where they want to have info from you (Your Information), as the purchaser of a Gift Membership, it would only go through when entering the Scout parent's email instead of your email. And I go NO email confirmation of the purchase.

OK, so, this is new...I figured out that, if you are purchasing a Gift Membership for someone, you must put in the parent email address in on the section where is says "Your Information" Never had to do that before.

Very carefully 😜

It's lame, that's what it is...don't really know where that came from, but I have a good guess... My old PB card says, "Demonstrate how to fell a standing tree 4 inches or more at the butt..." I recall an old OSHA regulation saying anything more than 6 inches required safety gear, but I cannot find this reference anywhere now. Apparently OSHA applies to felling any standing tree now (https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/1998-03-04-0) (maybe ridiculous?) And, you will be hard pressed to find any references in modern BSA literature to youth felling a tree (Fieldbook included), including G2SS policies. If you know of any current BSA tree felling guidance anywhere, please point it out to me...I'd love to read it.

You are most welcome...it says it was updated October 2020. I had not seen it until very recently...

Moving large logs into position for cutting, and for moving rocks when doing trail work. See requirement 7 in the Paul Bunyan...you would use this to meet the requirement to build the retaining wall or irrigation way. The long prybar (rock bar, crow bar, tamping bar, lots of other names and configurations...) could be used for both logs and rocks. I also have, teach, and use a cant hook (would like to get a Peavy one day) for the logs, but you can't (pun intended) use it for rocks. https://woodmizer.com/us/how-to-choose-a-cant-hook-vs-peavey