InquisitiveScouter

Agreed, and there is a difference between negligence and willful (or criminal) conduct.

@RichardB, can you shed any light on BSA actions in other instances (without too many specifics, obviously)?? I could see where, if unit supervision allowed Scouts to play Vertical Dodgeball, climb up 20 feet in some trees (tree climbing and Dodgeball being prohibited activities), and one fell to his death, that they could deny coverage and allow civil suits against the adults to proceed without any support. Anyone have any light to shed on this??

Although I concur with the practice of checking for this, could you please point out in the literature where it says a unit is required to do this? There is a SAFE checklist to help with this... https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-696(21)-SAFE-Transportation-Checklist-FPO3-5172021.pdf But, other than you, who else is actually running this checklist?

Recommend you read up on that case. She was not driving at the time, and was also found 20% culpable in the incident, which reduced the damages awarded. https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

A forthright and mature discussion or clarification about behavior, risk, and consequences is always appropriate. I had these many times with troops at my Commander's Calls. Funny, how we had less disciplinary actions than other units in the command... Of course, a very different situation, as I had many other disciplinary tools at my disposal (UCMJ, pay, leave, promotions, assignments, deployments, etc.), but there are some similarities in principles...

Scouter Code of Conduct: "When transporting youth, I will obey all laws, comply with Youth Protection guidelines, and follow safe driving practices." Maybe another reason BSA wants all adults to be registered... Remember old Tour Permits, where you had to record valid driver's license and insurance info?? https://www.boyscouttrail.com/docs/formlocaltourpermit.pdf

Here's the real question: What happens to a BSA volunteer, if they act out of accordance with BSA guidelines??? Doesn't the policy cover those cases? Read the verbiage from G2SS: "This coverage provides primary general liability coverage for registered adults of the Boy Scouts of America who serve in a volunteer or professional capacity concerning claims arising out of an official Scouting activity, which is defined in the insurance policy as consistent with the values, Charter and Bylaws, Rules and Regulations, operations manuals, and applicable literature of the Boy Scouts of America. This coverage responds to allegations of negligent actions by third parties that result in personal injury or property damage claims that are made and protects Scouting units and chartered organizations on a primary basis." It even seems to imply that you will be defended (except in cases of intentional or criminal acts.): "The general liability policy does not provide indemnification or defense coverage to those individuals who commit intentional and criminal acts. The Boy Scouts of America does not have an insurance policy that provides defense for situations involving allegations of intentional and criminal acts." Here's some other good gouge I found. https://montanabsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/BSA-Insurance.pdf Kudos to Montana Council for being a little more forthright: "The Guide to Safe Scouting contains a listing of unauthorized and restricted activities. Unauthorized activities are not considered official Scouting activities. Volunteers (registered and unregistered), units, chartered organizations, and local councils are jeopardizing insurance coverage for themselves and their organization by engaging in unauthorized activities." EDIT: Just found that last blurb in the G2SS as well, so my kudos to Montana Council are downgraded a bit 😛

Reviving this old post, if you don't mind 😜 Can anyone out there tell me what BSA General Liability Insurance provides for you that a personal umbrella policy does not? And vice versa? https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss10/ https://content.naic.org/article/whats-umbrella-policy -------------------------------------------------------- Comprehensive General Liability Insurance This coverage provides primary general liability coverage for registered adults of the Boy Scouts of America who serve in a volunteer or professional capacity concerning claims arising out of an official Scouting activity, which is defined in the insurance policy as consistent with the values, Charter and Bylaws, Rules and Regulations, operations manuals, and applicable literature of the Boy Scouts of America. This coverage responds to allegations of negligent actions by third parties that result in personal injury or property damage claims that are made and protects Scouting units and chartered organizations on a primary basis. The BSA general liability insurance program provides volunteers and chartered organizations additional excess coverage for motor vehicles above a local council’s automobile liability policy or a volunteer’s or chartered organization’s automobile or watercraft liability policy. The owner’s motor vehicle (automobile) or watercraft liability insurance is primary. The excess insurance, whether the local council auto or BSA general liability, is available only while the motor vehicle or watercraft is in the actual use of a Scouting unit and being used during an official Scouting activity. The insurance provided to unregistered Scouting volunteers participating in an official Scouting activity through the general liability insurance program is excess over any other insurance the volunteer might have to their benefit, usually a homeowner, personal liability, motor vehicle (automobile), or watercraft policy. The general liability policy does not provide indemnification or defense coverage to those individuals who commit intentional and criminal acts. The Boy Scouts of America does not have an insurance policy that provides defense for situations involving allegations of intentional and criminal acts. Scouting youth are not insured under the general liability policy. --------------------------------------------------------- And, does anyone know the limits of this BSA coverage? If I am an insured party, do I have a right to know? 😜

It's not that they are not approved... It's that those positions are not part of the "adult fee required position(s)" That is, you must be registered in some other position before you can be a Chapter or Lodge Adviser, insofar as I understand this... As @HashTagScouts alludes, they must first be in a District (or unit or council) fee paid position, before they can wear the additional hat of Adviser.

Fr. John, Agreed, but BSA is literally keeping their volunteers in the dark as to their own risk. Could this be on purpose? Instead of "If you ignore our recommendation from the Guide to Safe Scouting, you open yourself to financial ruin through lawsuits!" ... I'd turn it to the positive side: Hey volunteers, we carry liability insurance to protect your Scouting activities! That, along with the federal law puts a strong team in your corner should an accident occur. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title42/chapter139&edition=prelim You can help keep your Scouts and yourself safe by strictly adhering to all of our direction in the Guide to Safe Scouting 😛

"... BSA has liability insurance to protect its volunteers, but compliance with BSA safety guidelines is required for that insurance to be available." (2:30 in the video) I really think BSA should clearly elaborate on what this means for volunteers who are not in compliance with BSA safety guidelines. And the video ought to be redone for a myriad of reasons, but one of the biggest is at the end... Way to go shooting a safety video, and then putting that final scene in... "Appropriate personal protective equipment is required for all activities. This includes the recommended use of helmets for all participants engaged in winter sports, such as sledding and riding other sliding devices." LOL

The question was directed at @swilliams LOL, yes, DVOA is the Delaware Valley Orienteering Association. (context? no orangutans mentioned... orienteering was the subject answered... Google DVOA and orienteering and voila...) https://www.dvoa.org/ They create orienteering maps for many state parks and public areas around the Delaware Valley. They also sponsor orienteering events in the area. Although I have never met anyone from DVOA, we have used their products extensively. So, @swilliams, if you are a DVOA member, THANK YOU! Here is a sampling of some of their publicly available maps: http://elibrary.dcnr.pa.gov/GetDocument?docId=3559452&DocName=HICK_Orienteering.pdf https://www.dvoa.org/learn/perm/French-Creek-Hopewell-OPC_2015.pdf https://www.dvoa.org/learn/perm/Fort-Washington-OPC_2020.pdf Enjoy!

Aren't those old geezers handsome! https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2023/02/15/scouters-in-action-they-saved-the-drowning-man-from-the-rip-current/

Go to the IRS Tax Exempt Organization Search page at https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/ Enter the criteria you want for a search. If you know the EIN, that is easiest, as all councils do not use the same naming convention, so the search may not return good results by name. (Tidewater's EIN is 54-0505875 ) Charity Navigator has a better search engine, IMO https://www.charitynavigator.org/ P.S. Tidewater also has a separate Trust Fund, EIN 54-1707488 Fair warning, the more you know and share, the greater you become PNG to your council

You a member of DVOA??

Agreed, but having the job be more competitive, by allowing an "outsider" to be considered for the job could only expand our pool of talent.

I know a wonderful woman in our area who absolutely loves Scouting. She has four kids in the program right now. She is from the area and is well connected in many circles in our community. She knows what Scouting has done for our community, and knows many of the volunteers who live here (and who also have been involved with Scouting for a billion years). She has been on the board of three other local 501C3's in our community who have had a significant impact in environmental and heritage preservation, wild animal rehabilitation and community education (about the animals), and a women's shelter. She has run successful capital campaigns for all three organizations. She has many other qualities which would make her an excellent CEO. Would she ever be considered? I do not believe so. Not part of "the club."

My word... look at slide 9, "If a Scout separates from Scouting and wants to return later, does he or she have to pay the Joining Fee again?" YES????!!! Their Joining Fee is simply a flat fee combining the BSA Joining Fee and the BSA Annual Registration Costs. National has no such rule in place (that I know of), so why would the council do it? If Jimmy takes a year off from Scouting and comes back, our local registrar does not hit them with National's Joining Fee again... His old record is still in the system.

This is why many hang on tightly until they get the golden ticket SE position. Also, why the professional corps created a system where there is no hiring of "outsiders." Is an experienced executive or CEO of say, another youth organization, or a Y, even allowed to put in a resume for an opening in a BSA Council SE position? No way... National gives the council board a slate of candidates from which to pick their next CEO. IMO, that is bad for business... So, who is really choosing your next SE?

Ours has not announced anything like that yet. There is a "mandate" out there that annual council service fees cannot exceed National membership fee. See page three. https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Rules_Regulations_Sept20.pdf Note that is the 2020 version. If there was a subsequent revision that removed the fee stipulation, councils may be moving in a direction where they charge more than National. Is there a more connected guru out there who can find an updated Rules, or confirm the one linked above is current? And, perhaps the councils are justifying this by saying the "service fee" and the "activity fee" are combined to make the "subscription fee".

For Tidewater Council, my guess is, Parnell was named in 2019, but did not start until sometime later in 2020. Expect salary to be above $192K, which is what the previous guy got. You really want to find out? Call your council office and ask to see their IRS Form 990 for 2021, and 2022 (if filed). They are required, by law, to allow you access to this information. They do not have to provide you a copy, but they must allow you to see this in their office during normal business hours. If they refuse, please report them to your local Congressional Representative, and the IRS. Please!!

You, my friend, are a kindred soul!

See page 17. they reported $0 for 2019 I find that very odd... https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/540505875_201912_990_2020112017429593.pdf In 2018, a different guy got paid $192K. See page 18 at https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/540505875_201812_990_2019091616653396.pdf And here's their Trust Fund report in 2019 https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/541707488_201912_990_2020091417296410.pdf Enjoy! (Hey, now you know why I am blacklisted in our council! For sharing public information!)

We call it "Sniffing Spiders!!" Kids love this trick. Put a strong flashlight up next to your eye, pointing out to the ground. Scan slowly until you see a very small green, red, or purple light. Hold the light next to your eye steadily, and slowly move towards where the reflected colored light, keeping the flashlight shining on it so you can see the colored light coming back at you. Follow it all the way to the ground, and you will find a spider! Don't let on anything about the light at first... play it up that you have a special talent... you can smell spiders! Show them the first one or two, and then reveal the secret. If it is warm enough where you live, this is easy. Of, course, tell Scouts not to catch or handle the spiders Fair warning! Teach with discretion 😜 If you don't like spiders, you will get creeped out because they are EVERYWHERE! When there is a heavy dew, this becomes much more difficult, as dew drops can reflect colors back as well. https://thehappyscientist.com/content/spider-spotting# When they learn this, even the adults have fun with it! Enjoy!

@Jameson76, would you be able to do the job? And, if yes (or no), how much would you like to be paid (or think they should be)? (I'm just curious, and not trying to be a joker...) I know I could. And I'd do it for about $150K, in our local area. However, I use a lower number because I also receive a pension from another type of service organization 😜 At that combined income, our family would be in the top 10% of household incomes in the US. (Where those salaries already place our SE's.)