InquisitiveScouter

Heck no! But a few ashes from the fire are just fine 😜

Dealing with "the usual suspects" is always a pain. Although it is past now, and we do not have all the details and nuances of the situation, it seems the adults in that family were a thorn in your side for some time. And them showing up out-of-the-blue without having participated in the past few months, paid their way, being incommunicado, and expecting you to award their son an AOL is particularly annoying. I can definitely empathize with the way you felt and with your desires to oust them. The parents, that is. It can helpful to mentally separate the parents from the Scouts. The young ones probably had no idea what was going on, and they have probably missed out because of the bad decisions or poor time management (whatever you want to call it) of their parents. And, from the limited details we have, it seems they will continue to have a bad example from their parents on how to interact with others in a group. If only there was a way this could have been "headed off at the pass", before the B&G incident...

But, wait! Wasn't all this asked and answered for them back in 2019 via Appendix MM in the 204 page BALOO instructor syallbus buried in the bowels of BSA's website servers? LOL You just cannot make this stuff up.

Why bother with the training? Because it will help you deliver the best program for your Scouts. Try to appeal to them that way. Threats and ultimata in a volunteer organization will never accomplish your ends... What will you do? That depends... do you have someone to replace them who is willing to take the training?? (You do not have to be in a position to accomplish the training... if you have someone who wants the position, ask them to complete the training first to show their commitment, then put them in the position. If only the world was that simple, right?) "Enforcement" varies council to council. Ours says they are like @qwazse's but they have never enforced it. Honestly, they cannot afford to. Many units are barely hanging on with the minimum leaders on the charter. (Scouting according to BSA policies is a complex undertaking.) The council (and possibly your unit) is better off with an untrained leader, than with no leader in the position at all. Choose wisely, and best of luck.

Welcome!

Jesse, more than anything, your council needs adult leaders who will take Scouts camping and deliver the promise of adventure at the unit level. This is the heart of Scouting. If you do not have the heart to take them into the woods, then be an active committee member for a unit, and provide administrative support for those who do take on the task of outdoor adventure. Anything you can do to lighten their load will help them deliver more adventure for the youth. Examples include managing all the Troop medical forms, helping to mentor a youth in a support role (like Webmaster, Historian, Librarian, etc.), being a reliable member of Boards of Review, managing adult training for the unit, etc., etc. And, you should ALWAYS be a Merit Badge Counselor. 😛 If you believe you cannot fill any of those unit roles, post again for other ideas...

Welcome!

If you had a parent signed application back then (even if the parent held on to it before giving it back to you) then you have what I have heard two different registrars refer to as "intent to join." (I don't know if this is some official registrar term or not.) If the application was dated three months ago, then the registrar could back date the registration to that date, and charge the unit the commensurate back-dated fees. Then, all activities since that time are creditable. Only requirements completed on or after the joining date are creditable. This WILL be a potential problem down the road. Make sure all ranks, badges, etc., approved in the system show a date on or after joining date. This condition is an automatic kick-back on an Eagle Scout application. That is the "letter of the law" answer. The "spirit of the law" answer is what @MikeS72 @SiouxRanger@mrjohns2 are about... give the Scout credit, and adjust dates as necessary, if the registrar has already entered a conflicting joining date (after your three months) in the system.

All that background stuff printed on the adult application is information provided for the CO to vet (and make a decision whether to accept or deny) the person. See the blurb above the CO signature block. "APPROVALS FOR UNIT ADULTS: I have reviewed this application and the responses to any questions answered “Yes,” and have made any follow-up inquiries necessary to be satisfied that the applicant possesses the moral, educational, and emotional qualities to be an adult leader in the BSA." Your CO and unit should really be exercising "due diligence" in vetting people.

The official answer is : MBCs are not vetted by your CO/COR. Only unit registered adults (CO approved) are supposed to be camping with your unit. That is why inter-unit events are to be cleared by the council. Now, do you think the council really does anything for these inter-unit events, other than tacking on a fee? And if you could get your CO to approve the MBC, you ought be good to go. But I'd get that in writing, just to have your bases covered.

Corporate finance office usually just has to check that the EIN is a valid 501c3 with IRS. It takes a few keystrokes...

So, she checked to see if your CO was on the list??

You must call your Council Registrar to ask this info. The Registrar has access to all recorded adult awards. Depending on how you sell it ( ) your Registrar might not provide the info directly (like a list). That is, for example, you may only be able to ask, "Does our Unit Leader have the "Award of Merit'"? The Registrar may tell you Yes or No, and then you can move forward on that info. In fact, that is the course I would recommend... Pick an award you think your leader qualifies for https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/what-cub-scouts-earn/adult-awards-and-recognition/ Scouter's Training Award https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Scouters-Training-Award-for-Scout-BSA-Leaders.pdf Scoutmaster's Key https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-054_WB.pdf Unit Leader Award of Merit https://www.scouting.org/programs/venturing/venturing-awards-and-advancement/leadership/unit-leader-award-of-merit/ District Award of Merit https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33720.pdf etc, etc, etc Be advised, your leader has been around long enough that he may have an award already, but it is not recorded. That's OK! Recognize him again, and work with the Registrar to make sure it is recorded!! Or, you could pick an award, and ask him if he has it. If he says yes, work with them to figure out an award date and ask the Registrar to put it in his record. Thank you for doing this!!

Spot on!

@5thGenTexan, to further clarify, you need to coordinate that with your CO because you need their EIN (and address and contact info) to provide to your wife's company. The company needs that info to make the donation, and for tax reporting purposes. Also, ask your wife to find out how the company makes the donation. If by paper check, mailed, then that's probably all the info you need. If they do electronic deposit, then you might be able to have them send it directly to your unit bank account by providing ABA Routing and Account numbers.

Are you referring to this chart?? It does not clarify. The stipulation that Scouts, BSA may have "Weekend Campouts" is distinguished from the "Pack Overnighters" only in that Pack events must be at "Council-Designated Locations Only". Throw in the Family Camping for Webelos Scouts block, and it only adds to this confusion. Here is the official link to the chart, BTW: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-686.pdf That document has no links in G2SS pointing to it, that I can find. (Would someone else check this, please?) The only document I can see linked from G2SS is this one: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-685.pdf Which, again, adds no clarity. Back then, the other reference to this was pointed out by @malraux, which is still a valid link: https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/activities/cub-scout-camping/ Now, that guidance DOES add clarity. However, burying this significant restriction in only a few obscure locations is a poor practice. Something like that ought to spelled out unequivocally in the G2SS. And, he is not a "messenger." I believe this @RichardB is THE BSA Director Environmental Health and Safety, and his LinkedIn profile describes his job as including, among other things, "Provides content and editorial leadership for Scouting Safely website and EHS Publications. Provides safety and health interpretations for standards, rules and policies and procedures. " (emphasis added) If that is not his position, then I'll be happy to withdraw the arrow from the messenger's chest. 😛 https://youtu.be/DgK25o__0Hw

Are you sure someone filed your registration with the council? You can tell, if you have an account on my.scouting.org The phone app for scoutbook has little functionality, IMO Best to go to the website and use the online application. Have you logged in there?

Next year, have your wife's company make the donation to your CO. Coordinate with your CO ahead of time to ask about this and ask for the funds to be passed on to the Troop. This is perfectly fine, but your council will be livid.

Hey, man, just drink the kool-aid and pay the fees. Gotta FOS!! (Fund Our Salaries)

And here you are, making an assumption about "people who only have experience with others like themselves..." That is exactly the kind of gross generalization and stereotyping that we are opposed to. Physician, heal thyself. Deal with people individually. It is the only way... I don't hear this... because no one treats everyone the same. We all act differently around different people. I do not treat everyone the same. But I do strive to treat everyone fairly. There is a huge difference. I do not treat a 17 year old like I treat an 11 year old. I do not speak to women the same way I speak to men. I do not treat my elders like I treat my peers, or those junior to me... and on and on and on... We are and act differently depending on with whom it is we are interacting. This is a psychological behavior called "self-monitoring" https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-self-monitoring-5179838 And, just like any psychological behavior, it occurs on a spectrum. Too much or too little self-monitoring can lead to harm to self and others.

@DuctTape for National Commissioner! (It's been a while, so it needed saying again 😛 )

Just remember, Barry... You are unique! (Just like everyone else ) There is a deep danger in focusing on "identities." The result is a descent into tribalism. (We could improve the merit badge by removing this term and "equity" from the line-up.) https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-empathy/201903/when-tribalism-goes-bad Instead, we should craft questions in the discussion with Scouts along these lines: - Research an event or situation in US history where a person or group of people were discriminated against due to a trait which was innate. (skin color, height, sex, intelligence, physical ability, handedness, etc.) Explain what happened and the outcome. Are things different now? Why or why not? Relate this to the Scout Oath and Scout Law. (Put this in Citizenship in the Nation.) - Research an event or situation in US history where a person or group of people were discriminated against due to a characteristic which was acquired. (such as religion, language, culture, political affiliation, education, economic status, etc.) Explain what happened and the outcome. Are things different now? Why or why not? Relate this to the Scout Oath and Scout Law. (Put this in Citizenship in the Nation.) - Research an event or situation world history (excluding the US) where a person or group of people were discriminated against due to a trait which was innate. (skin color, height, sex, intelligence, physical ability, handedness, etc.) Explain what happened and the outcome. Are things different now? Why or why not? Relate this to the Scout Oath and Scout Law. (Put this in Citizenship in the World.) - Research an event or situation in world history (excluding the US) where a person or group of people were discriminated against due to a characteristic which was acquired. (such as religion, language, culture, political affiliation, education, economic status, etc.) Explain what happened and the outcome. Are things different now? Why or why not? Relate this to the Scout Oath and Scout Law. (Put this in Citizenship in the World.) Until we start viewing people as unique and individual creations, we will never reach an egalitarian society. Never. (For example, race is a social construct, and has no basis in the science of genetics. And as long as we "focus" on it, it will be to our detriment.)

No notice. So, the councils had no input to the decision-making. Sound familiar?

Atheists?

Unsatisfactory. Several observations: 1. In reviewing the 2019 posts and your responses, you never answer the question at hand. You simply post a definition of "overnight" which in no way enlightens the questioning audience. (And you have repeated that here.) 2. You post a link to an instructor syllabus which is now defunct, therefore invalid to answer the question. 3. There are 72 instances of the word "overnight" in the currently available BALOO manual (2017 printing, see link). I reviewed each of them, and there is no clarification that a single night experience is dictated. Your previous post (at least the info in the link) seems to point to a 2018 version of the syllabus, so I dug up a copy of that too by searching for the pub number with "18" in it the identifier. (links to both are here:) https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/510-033(17)baloo.pdf https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/510-03318-BALOO_web_v2.pdf There are 78 instances of "overnighter" in the 2018 syllabus. Again, nothing limiting it to a single night in the context of any of the instruction. Appendix MM simply lists a "Sample Pack Camping Schedule" for a one night excursion. Nowhere is there a prescription that limits packs to this type of schedule. Could you see how, in a 204-page syllabus, where this is only potentially intimated on a one-page "sample", and not definitively spelled out anywhere else in the text, that this policy of a "single night camping trip limitation" is puzzling to anyone? BTW, BOTH are posted on the official BSA website. See notes above relating to multiple versions of policy documents. Same condemnation applies here. (Also, when you Google "BALOO Syllabus" the number one return is the 2017 link. Nowhere in those search returns is a hit on the 2018 syllabus. Even when you search "BALOO Syllabus 2018" you get no valid hits. You have to search specifically for "510-03318" to get that version. So, what do you think the average Cub Leader out there is gonna get in their searches?) 4. Even your lack of a direct answer in this thread is puzzling. Are you deliberately trying to be ambiguous? So, please answer this question directly: Is it National BSA policy that Cub Scout pack overnight experiences are limited to one single night only?