InquisitiveScouter

Sure thing!

I teach map and compass skills, and an Orienteering MB counselor, among other things. @cmd gives perfect advice... The most important skill to have in navigation is map reading. Most beginner or intermediate orienteering courses can be done with map reading only. I use a compass most frequently to tell me one thing --- Which way is magnetic north? And I need to know that to orient my map. It does blow their mind when they put this together: Every day at noon (for those of us who live in the northern hemisphere above the tropical line), your shadow points true north. Use that to orient your map.

Yes, well, you have to dig into that a little more... "bouldering" as you may know it is not the same as "bouldering" as the BSA defines it... (Kind of like the word "overnight" 😛 ) Most people outside of BSA know bouldering as this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouldering But BSA imposes some pretty stringent restrictions on the activity. (No more than 6', or no more than shoulder height, without belay, depending on where you are reading. Again, unclear guidance... imagine that.) https://www.scouting.org/outdoor-programs/cope/climb-on-safely/ In one place, this restriction applies: "Everyone must be belayed or tethered when within 8 feet of an edge where a fall of more than 6 feet could occur." In another ( https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/pdf/430-500_BelayOn_WB.pdf , this one: ".Other walls are horizontal rather than vertical, providing climbers with opportunities to practice traverses and bouldering moves while ascending no more than six feet above the ground." In another: "The key to safe bouldering is for climbers to keep their feet fairly close to the ground, never ascending higher than their shoulder height above the ground." In another: "Anyone engaged in bouldering must be protected by spotters. In addition to spotters, mats or pads should be placed at the base of indoor climbing walls to protect boulderers. Instructors and participants who climb higher than shoulder height above the ground must have a belay to protect them in case they fall." So, if you apply the most restrictive guidance, no one (from Lions to adults) can go over their own shoulder height without belay. The least restrictive guidance is no higher than 6 feet without belay. And tree climbing is prohibited. (LOL) "Extreme or action sports and associated activities that involve an unusually high degree of risk and often involve speed, height, a high level of exertion, and specialized gear or equipment. These activities include but are not limited to: Tree climbing" Q. Why can’t we climb trees? A. Falls are a leading cause of injury to members of our Scouting family and one of the top five claims against the general liability insurance program. Technical tree-climbing has been prohibited for more than a decade, due primarily to not being able to safely belay participants. Tree climbing has no belay; thus, it is prohibited. This is mainly a clarification rather than a new prohibition. Can you imagine being a kid and being told you cannot climb a tree? https://www.fatherly.com/entertainment/how-to-climb-tree-kids-instructions-stay-safe BTW... I let Scouts climb trees if their parent is present, they give permission, and I have another adult witness. I also tell the parent that BSA prohibits the activity, I do not assume any responsibility or risk, and that insurance will not cover a fall. They assume the risk. 😜 What is Assumption of Risk? The doctrine of assumption of risk is an affirmative defense that may be available to some defendants in personal injury lawsuits. The law has determined that certain activities come with an innate risk, and plaintiffs who voluntarily participate in these activities and become injured as a result cannot sue based on a negligence theory. In other words, the defense holds that people who choose to do certain dangerous activities can't turn around and hold others liable when they're injured as a result of those activities, especially if they knew of the risk of harm and assumed the risk by doing the activity anyway. In order for a defendant to invoke the assumption of the risk defense, the plaintiff must have: Known that there was a risk of the same sort of injury that the plaintiff actually suffered, and Voluntarily took on that danger (assumed the risk) in participating in the activity. Assumption of risk can either be an express assumption of risk or an implied assumption of risk. An express assumption of risk is often made in writing, usually in the form of a written agreement such as a signed waiver or contract. However, an express assumption of the risk doesn't have to be in writing, as it can also be made verbally. An implied assumption of risk, on the other hand, is not written or stated out loud. Rather, a plaintiff acted in a way that reflected an understanding of the risk and a willingness to take part anyway. An example of an implied assumption of the risk is if an amusement park patron stood and watched a roller coaster for several minutes before deciding to go on the ride. The patron's observation of the roller coaster suggests an understanding of the inherent risks and a decision to assume those risks by participating in the recreational activity.

This, too @RichardB

This.

Maybe he could make me a "Shusher"!!! https://memes.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ef68ce5d-d1e8-4a8f-81a3-ba91a7391372

Well, five stakeholders... 5. Boy Scouts of America - wants money (and there is never enough) ... and it clearly is structured to meet that agenda. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! https://youtu.be/FAxkcPoLYcQ

Because the idea that "Scouting is a positive outlet that focuses on just having fun" is too limited, and unappealing to two of the three (or four?) stakeholders in Scouting. Each of the three (or four) groups of stakeholders in Scouting has a different agenda. 1. Youth - want fun and adventure 2. Parents - want safety and personal growth for their children at a reasonable expenditure (or some primarily want a resume bullet) 3. The CO/Community/Country - wants productive citizens (4. Volunteers - want to have a positive impact on lives and the future of our country... or maybe just some knots on a uniform 😜 ) Scouting is a program designed to meet all three (four?) agendas. So, if you want it to be successful, you have to address each.

Whenever we turn in the paperwork, we operate under the assumption that is is approved unless we hear otherwise. We do not allow a lack of action on council's part to stop our efforts. Now, we do turn in the paperwork at least one month ahead of time, and we follow up with two weeks remaining. That is ample opportunity for council to voice any concerns. And if anyone ever asked for a cut, we tell them they are more than welcome to work in the fundraiser with us, and have their percentage share from whatever they sell. (That is, part of their fundraising goes to our unit 😜 )

If each unit uses Scoutbook, you could subscribe to each units' calendar in one central Google calendar. Therefore, no need to maintain or put items into the Google calendar. Changes in Scoutbook automatically populate to the Google calendar (although this can be delayed a bit.) You can look at the central Google calendar just to see conflicts.

An age old problem, my friend... How old is the story of the Ant and the Grasshopper??

To facilitate the change over, they must physically step foot out of the established campground. So, a trip to the local gas station, convenience store, or even just stepping into the easement of the road would do it (not into the road of course... that would be more dangerous than the two back-to-back over-(meaning one)-nighters. Letter of the law!! In fact, maybe we could coin a new term... OVERMONIGHTER = over-meaning-one-nighter

@5thGenTexan, I resolved long ago that I am only responsible for my actions, and no one else's. You will always have liars, cheaters, and thieves out there. Just stick to your principles (Scout Oath and Law) and model that for your Scouts. And when you stray from them (as we will!!!), own it, admit it, make amends (if possible), ask forgiveness, and move on. You will have an effect, just as the liars, cheaters, and thieves will.

Funny that this thread starts on 21 Feb 2023, and the definitions on line were changed after 23 Feb. WE ARE HAVING AN EFFECT!!!

Current page (06 Mar 2023): https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/# ENTRY: overnighter A Cub Scout Pack organized one night campout held at a Council designated location. Also see “Webelos Scout overnighter.” ENTRY: Webelos Scout overnighter A one night campout by Webelos Scouts and their parent or guardian. Cached on 23 Feb 2023 http://web.archive.org/web/20230221012845/https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/ ENTRY: overnighter See “Webelos Scout overnighter.” ENTRY: Webelos Scout overnighter A one- or two-night campout by Webelos Scouts and their parent or guardian. Yes, Orwellian @Eagle94-A1 First site capture I can find: 05 Jun 2019 http://web.archive.org/web/20190605234607/https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/ NO ENTRY for "Overnighter" ENTRY: Webelos Scout overnighter A one- or two-night campout by Webelos Scouts and their parent or guardian. There are 86 captures on the site from 05 Jun 2019 to today. You can view them and see where the changes occurred yourself. http://web.archive.org/web/20190601000000*/https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/ By @Eagle94-A1?? or by BSA??

Here's a video explaining how to apply the Cub Scout camping rules from G2SS... https://youtu.be/pXw7LYWNi5E

Yes, sounds like you have a Cub Scout camping club, not Scouting. Until the adults get on board, it's not gonna happen. And, unfortunately, it takes an adult driving the train initially to get the youth to do Scouting. Because, most kids are inherently lazy stemming from incompetence and fear of failure, they are unwilling to do the work. So they need to be led or pushed at the start. Adults also need to set expectations and task early on... "Want to go camping? Well, you need to make a menu... anyone??? No?? OK, then we aren't going camping." OR... "Yes, you Jimmy?? OK, do you want to do it for rank advancement. No?? OK, fine... let's go camping!!!" OR... "Yes, you Jimmy?? OK, do you want to do it for rank advancement?? Yes?? Great! Let's look at the rank requirements and talk about what you need to do to meet them. Then, let's go camping!!" [guide the Scout to... "Tell how the menu includes the foods from MyPlate or the current USDA nutritional model and how it meets nutritional needs for the planned activity or campout." and "...make a list showing a budget and the food amounts needed to feed three or more youth. Secure the ingredients."] Make sure it is an OFFER of OPPORTUNITY for advancement, not a demand. My favorite question from parents, "Why isn't my Scout advancing?" Answer: "Because he doesn't want to." or "Because he hasn't done the requirements to advance."

Golf, SCUBA, or, the most expensive... Citizenship in the Nation 😜 What's the national debt at now??

Thank you guys for having this discussion. I hope @RichardB sees this and concludes we have another confusing policy in place that needs clarification, if National actually wishes thoughtful leaders to follow it.

Just make sure they know that is the expectation!!

@RichardB, any thoughts on Circle 10 questioning and clarifying this Cub Scout camping policy? You've gone silent on this... wink, wink, nudge, nudge

To answer your question @Eagle94-A1, No, haven't heard of this. But, doing a fundraiser without your council's approval does put the unit's insurance coverage in jeopardy, potentially. Note the boldface at the bottom of the application that @RichardB linked to: "The local council is responsible for upholding the Charter and By-laws and the Rules and Regulations of the BSA. To ensure compliance, all unit fund-raisers MUST OBTAIN WRITTEN APPROVAL from the local council NO LESS THAN 14 DAYS before the fund-raising activity" Now, the primary reason for the council approval is your point B: they want to make sure you aren't dipping into their honey pot. Of course, they'll never admit this. The secondary reason is to make sure you are doing an activity that is consistent with all BSA policies. Prohibited sales would include things like lottery tickets, fireworks (with live demos), Howitzer cannons (with even better live demos), Girl Scout cookies ( 😜 ), etc, etc, etc. The tertiary reason is to alert council of the fundraiser, and to give them the opportunity to speak with adult leaders about it, if there are any concerns, such as the unit's Scouts soliciting people for donations (verboten)... Never heard any voiced concerns over interfering in a United Way campaign. But the application does mention this "Does the fund-raising activity avoid competition with other units, your chartered organization, your local council, and the United Way?" I have had discussions with council over concerns with interfering with other units conducting a fundraiser at the same time. More blather on this at: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/02/02/unit-fundraising-dos-and-donts/

No, there is no "Needs Approval" alert. This is a good thing. When a Scout enters something complete on Scoutbook, then the Scout needs to contact an adult to work on getting tested to have something approved. This keeps the monkey on the Scout's back. When a Scout marks something as complete, it is for their own tracking, and it should, in no way, create a "demand signal" for adult leaders.

Zaphod Beeblebrox