InquisitiveScouter

So, for this, I'd note a few things... 1. When you say "low landers", what do you mean? What is the average altitude above sea level where you live? This will matter... 2. Acute Mountain Sickness (AMS) really becomes a factor above around 8000 feet. The best treatment is to go down in altitude. Much of the route you have there is above 8000', with no easy way to get down to lower altitudes, should the need arise. Plan accordingly. 3. Here's some light reading ... https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/travel-to-high-altitudes# https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3678789/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430716/ https://www.uptodate.com/contents/high-altitude-illness-including-mountain-sickness-beyond-the-basics# 4. Plan your overnight locations at the lowest altitudes you can reasonably reach. 5. One of the absolute best predictors of AMS is if you have experienced it before!! So, plan two weekend trips where you go to high altitudes for a night. Anyone gets severe symptoms, you may not want to take them on the long trek. 6. If you are really low landers (live below 5000'), camp a few nights at 5000, then camp at the Every Train Stop on first night (if possible)... I think that's around 8900 feet. This will help you identify potential problems early. 7. Bring ibuprofen!! Pre-load with it!! https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2012/03/ibuprofen-decreases-likelihood-of-altitude-sickness-researchers-find.html 8. Find out who is responsible for search and rescue operations there. Call them. Ask about their capabilities to come and get someone. Do they have a chopper? Have they had to bring anyone out of there before? What communications capabilities do they recommend you bring?? etc, etc, etc. You will learn a lot in a 20 minute conversation with them 😜 Looks like an awesome trip!! May I come with you?? And, for the complete overkill... 9. If you are really worried about AMS, get Emergency Oxygen Administration training; purchase and bring a lightweight O2 canister. It will buy you a little time to figure out what you are going to do to get someone down. 10. If money, time, training, and your weight load are no factor, bring a Gamow bag LOL, if only https://www.chinookmed.com/06001/gamow-bag-hyperbaric-chamber-civilian-model.html#!details

Because a tent is a huge expense, I recommend you think down the road a bit. What do you intend to use the tent for 5-7 years from now? If you think you will still me doing a lot of car camping, then the Basecamp might be good. If you think you'll want to be more mobile (backpacking, etc.), you may want to opt for two lightweight tents. Basecamp4 is 7.65 kg!! (BTW, Basecamp4 is not 50% off... only 20% with your member discount... at least that is what I am seeing... so $359.20 without tax.)(but you get a dividend of about $45, ) Is your Scout the type that could sleep in a tent by themselves with no problems? If yes, consider two of the REI Co-op Half Dome SL 2+ Tent with Footprint These are 50% off! (but no dividend??) $328.98 for two of them without tax! So, fina cost will be about the same. 2.14kg each https://www.rei.com/product/185632/rei-co-op-half-dome-sl-2-tent-with-footprint?sku=185632001 Get the green ones to be less obtrusive in the woods. Then, your Scout could actually have another Cub sleep in the tent with them. That'd be super-cool for them, and they won't get your gear dirty!! Vestibules are minimal, so good for boots and a couple of items, but there is plenty of room inside for 1 + gear. options, options, options P.S. The basecamp has no footprint. the half-domes come with a footprint.

I do not recommend big cabin tents, for the reasons you see above... We still have one we bought in the basement. Used it about 5 or 6 times... Our family preferred using our backpacking-type tents more. We set up two, and often put Mom with the girls and Dad with the boys. Even then, it wound up being as @Eagle94-A1 pointed out... I set up the tents while Mom corralled the young ones. You do not spend a lot of time in the tent for any activities other than changing clothes (where people want some privacy) and sleeping. The kids want to be outside playing anyway (even in the rain 😜 ). How many people are you looking to put in tents??

Welcome @Jadalexm! You were a Scout from Tiger to Eagle. So, that's about what, a 12-year time span? And I know you have learned a lot more since then... But just looking at your Scouting years, ask yourself the question... "How long does it take to get 12 years worth of knowledge?" Well, it takes about 12 years 😜 Be patient with yourself, as well as your Scouts! You are going to have some meetings and activities where you will feel like you did not accomplish a great deal (if anything.) That's OK. One thing I found very helpful is to read a little about the psychology of the year groups you are dealing with, and find some articles on how that year group learns, interacts with others, and how they view themselves. Here's an example: https://www.verywellfamily.com/9-year-old-developmental-milestones-620731 Particularly, in that article, see the section "How to Help Your 9-Year-Old Learn and Grow" "Help your 9-year-old thrive by encouraging developmentally appropriate routines and activities. "Make sure your child spends at least an hour a day engaged in physical activities," says Dr. Poinsett." I daresay (especially in this day and age) that most Bears are NOT getting an hour a day of physical activities. So , when you get them, they are indeed restless and need to "get some wiggles" out. Use that. Playing a game of tag is learning! If you have space outside at your meeting place, get some traffic cones for a "driving course" an have them all bring their bicycles (and helmets) for a little rodeo. Take a walk to identify animals or plants. Play "Skin the Snake" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-yTC8kAr2U&ab_channel=MPHSASB Play Leap Frog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj0JBiknaPg&ab_channel=Howcast Etc etc etc. I recommend you not focus too much on the Advancement portions of the program. Sure, work in one or two things per meeting, but focus more on having fun while learning. Yours in Scouting

Because the money kept coming in... so the volunteers were expendable. But they are slowly killing the goose that lays the golden egg, and they cannot see it.

During my SM conferences, I ask each Scout, "Other than you 😛 , who is the best Scout in this Troop, and why?" And then I challenge them to emulate the successful behavior they see in others. I also ask them, with a promise of anonymity, "Which Scout challenges you the most, in either a positive or negative way?" In about 75%(?) of answers that they bring up a negative example. Usually some bullying or poor behavior that goes on when adults aren't watching. I take notes and I observe more closely to address the behavior. Often, Scouts talk about how someone goes to merit badge colleges or summer camp and gets "free merit badges", where they do no work, but get the badge, or has their parents sign up as MBC's and gets them that way. (Our newest Eagle Scout candidate has completed four Eagle-required merit badges that way, and the Scouts often point to this as a negative. I agree that it is bad optics, but ethical behavior starts in the home, and if his parents aren't modeling it, then we will have much less positive impact in the unit.) Scouts talk, and they have their own "pecking order" when it comes to evaluating who is a good Scout and who isn't. We try to monitor this peer-perception system, and interject truth when needed, because, like most organizations, there is gossip and misinformation everywhere.

I said certificates... and NO PLAQUES, agreed! shoulda said gift certificates or gift cards

Or knots, or certificates, or the Troop paying for their Scouting classes or outings!!!

Again, Native American Heritage Preservation is not in our mission set... and never was. Another "cringy" is watching drumming, singing, and dancing... especially when there is no meaning attached, Then it becomes blind mimicry, and pretty bad at that.

make and print your own basic topo maps at caltopo.com

P.S. Approaching Midsommar 1987, I had the distinct pleasure of helping to construct the midsommarstång!! I went into the forest to help gather flowers and birch branches for the pole!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9bJpgyf1X4&ab_channel=GraceonTour The Swedish Scouts taught me the song, "Lasse går i ringen", and on Midsommar, we tried to break the record for dancing!! (Apparently, there was such a thing.) The sun set around 10 PM (IIRC), but I only made it till about 3:30 AM before I gave out 😛 Sunrise was about 4:00 AM!!! A new world of history, culture, food, and language opened to me by the International Camp Staff program of the BSA!! (Now cancelled... https://www.scouting.org/international/international-adventure/cancellation-of-the-international-camp-staff-program/) And a re-connection to some of my family roots! BTW, the dress and embroidery were gorgeous!! https://ritualtrip.com/midsummer/what-sweden Thanks for the trip down memory lane 😜

AES, I experienced this while I was in Sweden as well, and looked (admiringly) at it as a deep connection to familial, community, and cultural roots. You have expressed well exactly what the issue is here... people who have no connection with something deeply meaningful (to those with a connection to the culture) are making attempts (often poor) to copy (with sometimes embarrassing results) for no reason other than some fictional ceremonial purposes. Thank you for putting a "Scandanavian" slant on the context of this discussion. It is helpful to shed light on the issue. (Min fafar var Svensk.)

Got it, but you missed the point 😜

574 recognized tribes in US. What about native Hawaiians?? https://www.usa.gov/tribes What qualifies as a "largest nation"??

Neither the BSA nor the OA has a purpose or mission as a Native American Heritage Society. I love what the OA is at heart, and it has nothing to do with any real Native American lore. I say ditch it, and walk away. Structure it around the colonial period and a call to service for freedom. I can think my way through that set up easily.

It took me about 2 years to change the culture of the Troop. And I am retired and spend most of my time working at the unit level. It's been running OK for about 4 years after that, but it is still on shaky ground because people are lazy and apathetic... adult volunteers, Scouts, and parents. I give it about eight months after I depart to fail... unless a like-minded dedicated Scouter comes along to shepherd the process and hold feet to the fire. However, most of the principles in all this--- PLC and Patrol Method--- is the heart of Scouting, and in ALL the literature you read. You do not actually find many units who use the Patrol Method well. Best wishes!

In our lexicon, the terms "morals" and "ethics" ought to be decoupled. Without a concept of god, there is no basis for morals. https://theconversation.com/morality-requires-a-god-whether-youre-religious-or-not-42411 There is only ethics, and ethics change according to the consensus of people... The new Scout Oath: I promise do my best to follow my conscience and do my duty to my family, community, country, world, and universe, and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and ethically straight. The new twelfth point of the Scout Law is "Ethical" New Mission of BSA: "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Scout Law." There, BSA... fixed that for you. "As for my family and me, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

This is the route that Trail Life USA took. Scouts there can be of any/no faith. Adult leaders must be Christian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_Life_USA

No survey here, and I routinely get them...

We use Scoutbook. The PLC decides our trips and events during the Annual Planning Conference. (We have two APC's per year, so we always have a minimum of six months of activities on the books...) An adult helps the Troop Webmaster and Troop Scribe enter the events in Scoutbook (due to Scoutbook edit permissions.) For "regular" events, our planning horizon is 90 days. Prior to the 90-day clock starting, the PLC has to designate a Youth Planner for the event. The Committee tags an Adult Planner. The Youth and Adult Planner use this checklist (a bit outdated, but still useful...) to plan for the event. All details go into Scoutbook, and an appropriate RSVP date is set and entered into Scoutbook (I wish there was a feature for this.) At the suspense date, the RSVPs are closed, and the trip is set. At that point, Scouts and families are financially obligated if tickets/groceries/etc are purchased on their Scout's behalf. Changes are on a case-by-case basis after RSVPs close. There is a full PLC each month, usually the meeting night following a camping trip. (No regular meeting then.) At that PLC, they review the trip planning for the next three outings (90-days out, 60 days out, and next outing) They plan activities, schedules, etc. No, they are not good at it, but remember who we are dealing with 😜 The meeting before the trip, all menus must be approved by the ASM assign to that patrol. Planning and prep for gear and meals is done by patrol. We set an overall budget (usually about $20 per person for food for the weekend) and the patrols pick their shopper. Sometimes, patrols will combine if there are only one or two from a patrol going. If the shopper exceeds the budget, their family eats the overage. The patrol shoppers buy and submit a receipt after the trip. We ask parents who take them shopping to cover the cost until reimbursement. All accounting is done via Google Drive shared spreadsheet after the trip, with the Adult Planner, Youth Planner, Troop Treasurer reconciling costs. Once reconciled, charges and credits are issued in Scoutbook. We haven't reached nirvana on this, but we are close. Rather than paying outright for every trip, some parents deposit money into the Troop account, which is tracked in Scoutbook and debited/credited accordingly. Some parents wait and float a debt... At $200 debt (for past events), your Scout is no longer allowed to participate until you clear the debt. We have had a few people skip out on the Troop, to to tune of about $30 to $50 on average. This happens about once every other year. Most of the time, we eat that cost, or count it as the cost of having that family exit the Troop, if you know what I mean. (Happy to elaborate, if needed.) This way, we almost never have to have small sums of money change hands. As it turns out, each Scout in a patrol does the shopping about once every six months. The amount credited to their account for the groceries covers their participation for the next six months... Parents can view all credit/debits/balances directly in Scoutbook. It is a wonderful tool. All these policies/procedures are in our Troop Handbook. Hope this helps... outing_planner_checklist_from_troop_leader_guidebook_volume_1_bsa_publication_512-150_2015_printing.pdf

LOL, "Chief" is an English word. And there are/were tribal chiefs (chieftains) around the world in multiple countries/lands throughout history. It is not "appropriation" to use that word. The etymology is French...

Yes, I think that is an accurate assessment

Agreed! I met you at Philmont some years ago when I was there at PTC getting WFA Instructor certified. (I'm sure you thousands of people 😜 ) I have about 50% of our unit currently certified in CPR/AED, and work to get/offer training to folks in our council. Have trained over 200+. Now, getting folks to dedicate time and effort to do First Aid or Wilderness First Aid training is a challenge. I've been pushing for an AED purchase for our Troop trailer, but that's a high-dollar pilferable item, so we have not gotten consensus/committee approval to purchase yet. (About 60-70% of our camping is car-camping.) It's always tabled for further discussion. Thanks for the input...

@RichardB I heard this recently, and it rings true, but... comments.?? "As a group, youth are more likely to be injured on Scout outings. Adults are more likely to die." LOL

How about apple-smoked pork belly? Is that a suitable substitute?