InquisitiveScouter

It is a legit option... not doing advancement, that is. But not doing KP when it is his turn on the Duty Roster? No way! That is the price of admission. (You didn't say, but I am assuming your Patrols have duty rosters.) We have had Scouts who have not wished to work on advancement, and we are fine with that. Just had one turn 18 last December. Great kid, always there, friendly, but no interest in working on rank. (I did cajole him over the years to at least earn First Class. That should be the measure of all Scouts. IMO, because it is skills based.) But, if his Patrol, or the whole Troop, are doing an activity, he must be there. Troop Swim, for example... He does not have to swim, but he does have to be there with the rest of the group, instead of off on his own. That is a health and safety issue. I give no quarter to dissent on issues of "health and safety". Food in the tents? No way. Health and safety. I have seen too many chipmunks, mice, skunks, ants, and bears!! in tents because Scouts have food in tents. (If you do not follow my instructions when it comes to health and safety, you cannot come camping with us. Simple.) Does he wear a uniform? Is he part of an active Patrol? Does he know and try to live by the Scout Oath and the Scout Law? Does he love the outdoors? Does he associate with and interact well with adults? Is he growing as a leader (sounds like he has influence...)??? Do you see him experiencing some personal growth? If yes, then he is 7 out of 8 for Scouting! And that is fine! He is learning from all of your examples. How you treat him in his decision to not do advancement is a lesson for him, as well. Happy Scouting

We let all new Scouts and families know that Scoutbook is our primary means of communication, and that through email. Some parents do not wish for their Scouts to have email accounts yet. That is their prerogative. The primary means of communication is still Scoutbook. Whether by an email "push" of information, or a family or Scout "pulling" information from Scoutbook directly (the Scout logging on to parents' account if the Scout has no email) All other means of communication are "supplemental", whether verbal (as at meetings), by texts or phone calls, or word of mouth. About five times a year, parent X will call me and say "Jimmy missed the event because we never heard about it." To which we always respond, "Did you read your email or check Scoutbook?" The answer is always <crickets> because "the usual suspects" expect you to hound them directly until they have gotten the information they need. It takes both pushing and pulling information to bridge the communication gap. We also set the expectation that PL's contact each member of their Patrol by whatever means necessary. (Divide and conquer.) Each Assistant Scoutmaster assigned to a Patrol mentors the PL through this. Some PLs are good at it, and the results are obvious. Some PLs stink at it, and the results are equally obvious.

Also, you ought to work to drive identity to the Patrol level. This is the heart of Scouting. A Troop is not made up of Patrols... Patrols come together to form a Troop. Please work to shift to that paradigm. Your Troop identity comes in the form of Troop numerals and a Troop neckerchief (optional) selected and approved by the PLC. That said, if our CO were to ask the same question, we would be happy to comply, but tell them it will cost them the "start-up" fees. Everyone who has already purchased, say, a neckerchief, is vested in that identity, and if the CO wants to change it, let them know what the cost will be, as @mrjohns2 says, "...as supplies run out..."

I do wish we could fully put all responsibilities for stuff like this on our Scouts, and get the great results we are looking for. But that is not reality. I always say, "You have to remember who we are dealing with." We use Scoutbook for communication by email. Whenever a Scoutbook email goes out to Scouts, all parents are automatically cc'ed. Best wishes as you pursue the goal of purely "Scout-led"

Actually, it is not. An SM conference can occur at any point during the journey to the rank. This is a common misconception, because it is always listed last, just before the BOR requirement. From the G2A. para 4.2.3.5: The unit leader (Scoutmaster) conference, regardless of the rank or program, is conducted according to the guidelines in the Troop Leader Guidebook (volume 1). Note that a Scout must participate or take part in one; it is not a “test.” Requirements do not say the Scout must “pass” a conference. While it makes sense to hold one after other requirements for a rank are met, it is not required that it be the last step before the board of review. This is an important consideration for Scouts on a tight schedule to meet requirements before age 18. Last-minute work can sometimes make it impossible to fit the conference in before that time. Scheduling it earlier can avoid unnecessary extension requests. The conference is not a retest of the requirements upon which a Scout has been signed off. It is a forum for discussing topics such as ambitions, life purpose, and goals for future achievement, for counseling, and also for obtaining feedback on the unit’s program. In some cases, work left to be completed—and perhaps why it has not been completed—may be discussed just as easily as that which is finished. Ultimately, conference timing is up to the unit. Some leaders hold more than one along the way, and the Scout must be allowed to count any of them toward the requirement. And, you can have more than one!

A local Troop was doing this, as well as re-testing at BOR's. Because their BOR's were so intensive, the Troop was taking months to schedule a BOR when a Scout requested one. I had a parent from that Troop ask me about this... I was shocked at their report of the situation, and told them this was not appropriate, and that they should point out exactly what @T2Eagle cited above. I also told them that if their Troop leadership was unresponsive, they were welcome to join us. I followed up with a phone call to that unit's Commissioner, and to the District Advancement Chair. Don't know if anything ever came of that... However, about three weeks later, half the Troop bailed and came to join us. Most of the Scouts ranked up very quickly... That Troop now is in danger of collapse. That said, I understand the desire to do this. Scout skills are abysmal. Adult knowledge of Scout skills is abysmal. And, if older Scouts and adults don't know what they are doing, how can they teach? I have been working on the latter... our adults' skill sets are leaps and bounds beyond other Troops in our area. The PLC and SM Corps has been working on the former, through program. Our Scouts actually do not like to go to District events, because they routinely trounce the competition in Scout skills events. It is no fun for them 😜 I'm an advocate for bringing back "testing", at least at the First Class and Eagle ranks.

I vote to bring back public hanging.

James, would you mind sharing a bit of detail as to why your Eagle Candidate's appeal was necessary? Also, I do not believe National has the agility to anything "quickly" these days, as they may be fully focused on gearing up for the National Meeting at the end of this month. https://scoutingwire.org/save-the-date-for-scouting-forward-2023-bsa-national-annual-meeting/

Did the council courtesy copy you (and/or Eagle Candidate) on the forwarding of the appeal? That is, do you know that National, in fact, received it??

BSA and GSUSA make it that important here, because it is about MONEY! BSA has badgered other organizations who wanted to call themselves "Scouts", by threatening legal action for calling themselves that. Again, those moral and ethical decisions... Baden Powell Scouting Association (now Outdoor Service Guides due to "cancel culture") and Trail Life... Looks like SpiralScouts is ignoring them 😜

https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgebradt/2017/12/01/why-focusing-on-your-core-is-almost-always-the-right-choice/?sh=4b2e451e21b5 Especially #2

Fair enough... but that isn't the case around here. Scouting is really struggling in these parts, with many issues at cause. If they were really an "independently formed non-profit organization", why don't they just focus on those money-making programs and just ditch all that cumbersome Scouting and "moral and ethical" stuff??

Whoa, Trigger! You know not of what you speak. I put in well over 40 hours a week as a volunteer in our Scouting community. And I am that "squeaky wheel," not just "venting" here. You ought to ask a little more before casting those aspersions...

Because in the Scouting programs, we are still using the Aims of Scouting, which include instilling ideals of the Scout Oath and Law. The STEM program of Scouting is one of the hooks we use to provide youth a program, while we work through the Aims to provide a "moral and ethical" context.

Thanks, but isn't that "mission creep"?? What you describe seems to go outside the stated mission of the BSA: "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

Would you elaborate, please? To what services "outside of Scouts", what kinds of "significant programs", and what "non-Scout programs" are you referring?

I think the were referring to Learning for Life and ScoutReach programs, if they are still going??

Our council does none of that.

From the income by zip code finder https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/ By any stats you look at for our zip code (and surrounding) our SE is way overpaid... top 20% of households!, not just single income earners. Our SE salary is double the median for individual income. Again, when people ask me if they should donate to council, I point these numbers out, so they can make an informed decision. If they ask for advice, I suggest they give it directly to a unit, or put their money elsewhere to do good in our community. P.S. Just checked... our SE makes 50% more than the CEO of our local land preservation trust. This land trust has twice the employees, outright owns over 1500 acres throughout 50 properties, many with historic buildings in preservation. They recruit a small army of volunteers to help maintain these properties. They manage conservation easements on 16,000 more acres, and put on many more events during the year than our council does, including day camps for kids (focusing on environmental education) throughout the summer. (They do not do an overnight camp, though.) Council total assets is $6.6M, with revenue of $939K. Land preservation trust assets are $27.4M, with revenue of $7.4M. Might be apples to oranges, but I think it is a near-comparison.

Talk with the Committee Chair (CC) first, privately. If that doesn't soothe things over, ask someone else who has clashed with them to speak with them privately. The message might begin to get through. Do not double-team or call them out in public. It will only make matters worse. If the behavior is destroying the Pack, take the other person/persons who have clashed with the CC, and go have a tactful conversation with the Chartered Organization Representative (COR). Before you do this, have a plan for what to do next. Who is going to be the next Committee Chair? If you cannot answer that question, then all you are doing is pulling the pin on the hand grenade and tossing it in the COR's lap. (Be a part of the solution rather than part of the problem.) When you have the next person wo is willing to take on the role of CC, and a group of like-minded people to talk with the COR, ask the COR to speak with the CC to either modify behavior or step down. Adults ruin Scouting. Best wishes...

But, we have to create the country club!

https://us.norton.com/blog/how-to/how-to-find-hidden-cameras# #8 is interesting.

Much of the land was donated. And often, much of the infrastructure. Many of these properties were given in perpetuity for use of Scouts or with some other type of restrictions or directed donation. I have heard anecdotes from Scouters across the country relating instances where councils have sold properties under such restrictions, after waiting a few decades until people forget or donors have passed away, but I have never seen such restrictions in writing on a deed in order to verify those claims. Can anyone here provide concrete examples of that practice? This type of restriction is also said to be on the deeds to Philmont. Again, I have never seen them, and the OA site mentions only some minor stipulations... https://oa-bsa.org/history/waite-phillips The Waite and Genevieve Phillips Foundation did file with the bankruptcy court to be given all documents in the bankruptcy, ostensibly to protect their interests in Philmont: https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/839320_1093.pdf

Training... done by volunteers Programs (except Summer Camp)... planned and done by volunteers Supervise units??... Unit supervision is done by unit volunteers Support units??... done by Commissioners, when they exist. Council support to units comes in the form of Registrar functions, and local Scout Shop... both of which could be done at the national level by adopting technology. Additional fees are tacked on to Training courses, to help fund council employees Additional fees are tacked on to programs (camporees, merit badge colleges, University of Scouting, etc.), to help fund council Guess who did the legwork for each of the last seven years to get our Annual Charter Agreement finished and turned in? I did. Most of that time, we have had no DE. Many units are operating with no charter agreement for several months after recharter, until someone at council gets around to correcting the deficiency, and back-dates the Charter Agreements. I call that playing with fire, liability-wise.

@Nate_m, when you look at the list of Dens in Scoutbook, each should have a green check mark by it. It looks like this: I suspect the missing Den does not have that check mark. If this is the case, then open that Den and look at the list of options below the name list. Find "Edit Den" Open that and "Approve Den" and save. That might fix the issue.