InquisitiveScouter

This looks like a district or council-level weekend day camp set up for you to bring your Scouts to have them work on requirements instead of you having to construct your own program. Sort of a "we provide the program, you bring your Scouts" offering. Which is just another dilution of Scouting, IMO...

Although I would love to hear some other perspectives on this, if yours is an accurate depiction of the reality, my advice is to exit the situation gracefully. If this is your Scout's Eagle Ceremony, and you are not tied to the venue, consider having it in your home. You will need one other registered leader, of course. And then, only invite the people your Scout wants to be there. Friends and family, etc. If someone uninvited shows, they are trespassing 😜 (even though all Scout events should be open) There is absolutely no requirement for an Eagle COH. Once your Scout's credentials come back from National (post-EBoR), then that Scout IS an Eagle Scout (and only then... EBoR completion is only a step along the way...National must approve all, and issue credentials, or the rank is not to be awarded.) BTW, are you certain the Eagle Application was signed by EBOR Chair, and submitted to Council Registrar after the EBoR??? If yes, then you may call the registrar and ask explicitly to have only the Scout or a family member pick up those credentials when they come back. You do not want this person getting their mitts on them. The credentials can be replaced with Registrar help, but it takes a while... Once you have Eagle credentials in hand, you can purchase all the Eagle bling you want. And if Council Scout Shop will only sell you one kit, then go to scoutstuff.org, https://www.scoutshop.org/eagle-scout-mom-pin-antique-finish-14121.html (there is a sterling silver version also...) or EBay and get what you want. Eagle Mom Pins, for example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/194591393053 And your Scout can name as many mentors as desired. Get all the Mentor Pins you need at Scout Shop or EBay: https://www.scoutshop.org/eagle-mentor-14123.html https://www.ebay.com/itm/175888591335 These are not restricted items, so you should be able to order all you want. When you exit, if asked, simply cite "unreconciled differences." Then move to our area and come join our unit 😛 Or enjoy your break from Scouting!

??? https://www.scoutspirit.org/enhancingscouting/ Can anyone parse out what this Newspeak means??

@Armymutt, I understand your logic. Those two leaders, in spirit, are to be there to supervise their Scouts, and not to be dedicated to some other purpose. That said, many do not interpret the rule this way. It is considered "acceptable" for leaders to do other activities while remaining "on the property" where their unit is conducting an event, and not be "ever-present" with their Scouts. (granted, Cub Scouts need a little more supervision than Scouts...) As in your case, with Cub Scouts, you may not want to flex the rule in that way. That is totally your prerogative, and I support you 100%.

Yes. See attendance numbers in the chart. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Scout_jamboree_(Boy_Scouts_of_America) And how many of those were Scouts from other countries??

Agreed, so four wrongs still do not make a right.

Passing on part of the cost to current members.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Not quite... The Scout is expected to go back and serve his unit. Whether he chooses to serve the lodge and join in all those other lodge activities is just that... his choice. Election to Order of the Arrow, and completion of the Ordeal carries with it absolutely no obligations to the lodge itself. You are an Arrowman for life. You are only a lodge member year to year as you pay your dues. Unfortunately many do not agree with this philosophy. But that is another thread 😜

https://www.scouter.com/topic/33307-elections-for-dummies/

@derksmit, welcome!! 1. They "start over." A Scout gets a Scout-level patch (No. 618757) for first Scout-level Nova. Then the same Nova Pi pins for subsequent awards. The Cub Scout patch (No. 613042) is not awarded to Scouts. 2. No. The only awards earned as a Cub Scout that carry over onto Scout uniform are Arrow of Light and Religious Award. 3. No. Cub Scout Nova's only count for Cub Scout Supernova. Scout Nova's only count for Scout Supernova. Same rule for Venturing. Enjoy! P.S. There are now Supernova pins for uniform, when a Scout earns a Supernova Award Medal. see page 72. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066/33066_Universal_and_Nonunit_Insignia_WEB.pdf

@Jenni, technically, yes. Also, Council will not allow you to charter a female Troop unless you have five Scouts. Check with your registrar, please.

Thank you and your husband for doing the work it takes to keep a Troop going!! This sounds like a normal "down" in the life cycle of a Troop. But it does beg a question: "What do you think is the "right" size for a Troop?" In Aids to Scoutmastership, (recommended reading) BP thought the answer was 16. But, he granted that most were twice the man he was, so he said he could see 32. "The number in a Troop should preferably not exceed thirty-two. I suggest this number because in training boys myself I have found that sixteen was about as many as I could deal with-in getting at and bringing out the individual character in each. I allow for other people being twice as capable as myself and hence the total of thirty-two. Men talk of having fine Troops of 60 or even 100-and their leaders tell me that their boys are equally well trained as in smaller Troops. I express admiration (“admiration” literally translated means “surprise”), and I don’t believe them. “Why worry about individual training?” they ask. Because it is the only way by which you can educate. You can instruct any number of boys, a thousand at a time if you have a loud voice and attractive methods of disciplinary means. But that is not training-it is not education. Education is the thing that counts in building character and In making men. The incentive to perfect himself, when properly instilled into the individual, brings about his active effort on the line most suitable to his temperament and powers. It is not the slightest use to preach the Scout Law or to give it out as orders to a crowd of boys: each mind requires its special exposition of them and the ambition to carry them out." page 30 http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/a2sm.pdf Our Troop is 55, and it is DIFFICULT! to minister adequately to the needs of that many Scouts. Basically, we have 6 Patrols that fairly well function on their own as "mini-Troops", each with an assigned Assistant Scoutmaster, who, frankly, functions as a Scoutmaster. (When they don't do well mentoring as ASM, that patrol suffers!) This is the only way it works, and it is, I believe, what BP was aiming at with his idea. So, IMO, I think you can do just fine with four Scouts. After you get below that point, you do not really have a Patrol. (See optimal working group size.) However, I think your council may have restrictions on how many you need to re-charter (Five, I think?? Ask your registrar!) https://howtosavetheworld.ca/2009/03/18/the-optimal-size-of-groups/ (BTW, group dynamics are key. Any successful large group you have ever been a part of has been divided up into small groups like this. Basic size of first echelon military unit? Four 😜 https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Experience/Military-Units/army/#army There is a reason for this...) Instead of a plan to draw down, How about first a plan to grow/replace? Then have an alternate plan to disband. If all you do is plan to disband, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. ------------------------------------------- As for your hubby... sit down with him over coffee. Tell him you want to help him be successful with the Troop. Ask him to spend a little time to come up with his top three things (priorities) the Troop needs help with. Then, either do them (if you can), OR, work with your committee to find someone to do them!! Both of you will appreciate this approach. ------------------------------------------- OK, who cares about the stuff and money? It is just stuff and money. To help prepare for draw down (or growth), first, make sure the trailer title and registration is in the CO's name (if your state requires a title and plate for a trailer.) Next, start spending the money. With a plan. Send your Scouts to NYLT. Pay their full tuition to Summer Camp next year. Send them to a High Adventure Base! (HAB) Plan your own week-long Summer Scouting Adventure instead of going to an over-priced boutique HAB. etc, etc, etc Just make sure you use the money for Scouting purposes, and that it is equitable among your Scouts. (Use this as a recruiting tool! "First five Scouts to join our Troop get to go to camp at half price!") You are correct... technically, it all belongs to the CO. So, if the Troop is to disband, then they get to have a say in the disposition of equipment and money. There are two basic alternatives for the CO for equipment: 1. Keep it! We still want to sponsor a Troop in the future, so we want to keep the gear for that eventuality. 2. Get rid of it! Offer it to other Troops and Packs, or sell it. Now, for the money: (You may use it liberally for the Scouts in your CO's unit, but tread CAREFULLY with sending money outside your CO's umbrella. They have ultimate say in that!) 1. Keep it! We still want to sponsor a Troop in the future, so we want to keep the money for that eventuality. 2. Get rid of it: Option A: If your Scouts transfer to a unit that keep Scout accounts, transfer a portion with them. This could have tax implications, so be careful. NEVER, EVER give the money to individuals. The IRS would be very interested if you did this 😜 Option B: Get your CO's permission to transfer the money to another CO. Again, this has tax implications, so be careful. Talk with the Treasurers of both CO's A LOT before you do this. Option C 😄 (aka, the "nuclear" option): Give it to council. It disappears down the rat hole 😜 There are other options... NOTE: That is a lot of money. IMO, you ought to have no more than one year's Troop expenses on hand. Recharter fees, awards and advancements, training, etc, etc, etc. (Do you have a budget?? Do you know how much money you spent last year?)

"...The one part which I can claim as mine towards promoting the Movement is that I have been lucky enough to find you men and women to form a group of the right stamp who can be relied upon to carry it on to its goal. You will do well to keep your eyes open, in your turn, for worthy successors to who you can, with confidence, hand on the torch. Don't let it become a salaried organization: keep it a voluntary movement of patriotic service." - BP

@Tron, I have noticed this over many years of Scouting as well... There is no attempt to "standardize" the program, or encourage/incentivize Troops to hold to those "standards." So, you wind up with everyone doing their "version" of Scouting. Most never pick up the book and read to try to find the purpose of what we are doing. In most parent minds, the purpose is to make my kid an Eagle Scout so he/she can put in on a college/service academy application. You most likely know this, but this "standardization" is the purpose of the Commissioner Corps, starting with Unit Commissioners. https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/NCST-Unit-Commissioner-Job-Description.pdf The last time we saw a Commissioner in our unit was when we invited them to present an award on behalf of the council. During my 7+ years tenure as Scoutmaster, we had one unit contact (at our request) and never once saw a unit assessment. That said, I understand the program and policies, and during that time, our unit charter was always clean and on time, and we always reached Gold Level on Journey to Excellence (for which we submitted the report at recharter time). (BTW, during the last year, we finally hit one of my personal goals for our unit: to reach a maximum score on the JTE.) So, perhaps, since we were not a "problem unit", their attention was devoted elsewhere. But, a phone call to our COR, CC, or SM saying, "Hey, just wanted to let you guys know you are doing a great job!" would have been a 2-minute phone call or email well spent. --------------------------------------- Another mindset I have seen is from many adults being so defensive about their unit program. They think they are right, and even if they aren't, well, it IS their program and they'll darn well run it they way they want to. There is no mindset of "continuous process improvement" or asking simple questions like "What is the right way to do this?" or "What is a better way to do this?" It's just, "I don't care about all that stuff. Let's muddle through, get my kid's Eagle, and get the heck out..." What can men do against such reckless hate? 😛 https://youtu.be/t6qQSll7InQ

Official policy from Guide to Awards and Insignia: (G2AI) "While wearing the uniform is not mandatory, it is highly encouraged. The leaders of Scouting— both volunteer and professional—promote the wearing of the correct complete uniform on all suitable occasions." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066/33066_Official_Policy_WEB.pdf (Entire document available at https://www.scouting.org/resources/insignia-guide/ ) Now, what is a "complete uniform"? There are three variations "authorized" in the literature. 1. "Field Uniform" See the description of this in your BSA Handbook, (page 21, as I am using the 13th Edition, 2016 printing. YMMV. = Shirt, Pants/Shorts, Belt, Socks, Shoes/Boots, Cap (optional per PLC), Neckerchief (optional per PLC)) 2. "Activity Uniform" same page = "When you're headed outdoors to do something active...T-shirt with Scout pants or shorts, or wear other clothing that is appropriate for the events of the day. [emphasis added] NOTE: you'll notice this does not say anything specific about the "T-shirt", nor about Scout socks/belt/cap/etc for Activity Uniform. IMO, this gives the PLC carte blanche to decide what uniform is appropriate for their outdoor activities. [BTW, "uniform" means all alike 😜 ] 3. Neckerchief only - "When engaged in Scouting activities, members may wear the neckerchief with appropriate nonuniform clothing to identify them as Scouts." ("nonuniform" means they don't all have to be alike 😛 ) From the G2AI, page 13 https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066/33066_Special_Regulations.pdf [But, also earlier on page 13, a Troop (the PLC) may decide not to use neckerchiefs: "Scout neckerchiefs are optional. Troops choose their own official neckerchief. All members of a troop wear the same color. The troop decides by vote, and all members abide by the decision."] The PLC decides what uniform is to be worn at meetings and events, and as "officers" of the Troop, part of their job (and every other Position of Responsibility) is to "Wear the Scout Uniform Correctly" https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/510-046_PocketCards17.pdf Now, with all that info, what does your PLC decide to do??? Enjoy! P.S. If you want to wear the "full" uniform, here is a checklist/inspection sheet for determining correct wear: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-784(23)-Scouts-Uniform-Inspection-Sheet.pdf Incentivize the behavior you want. If the PLC wants "full" uniform, then have an inspection, and give some awesome prizes for the three (or more??) Scouts who score the highest in whatever criteria the PLC has elected.

Also just did a 5 day, four night, 50+ miler backpacking/hiking trip about three hours from our home location, into the near-Catskills. We ran another unit-level Kodiak Challenge course. Total cost per person for 9 people, including covering gas and tolls for drivers? (not including awards for Scouts, which came out of the Troop budget) $100.08

@DuctTape for National Commissioner! Totally agree. Well, I'd go a bit further and say use boiling water as a "sterilizer".

Ask you for more money and treat you like dirt?

I had this "discussion" with Michael Johnson some years back (2018). I still have the email... my question was about MBCs attending an event over 72 hours (back when that rule was in place). My question was this: Given the following: 1. BSA requires registration for MBC's in order to complete a background check 2. The state of PA also requires a PA State Police Criminal Record check, a PA Department of Human Services Child Abuse History check, and an Affidavit of Residence Over 10 Years in the State (or an FBI Fingerprint Check if not in PA 10 years or more) 3. The COR approves the individual. 4. There will be at least two unit-registered adult leaders on the outing. Then why must they pay an additional registration fee, when BSA will accomplish no further actions? His reply was that my question was an attempt '...to evade BSA's registration and selection process...' Which, of course, it was nothing of the kind. It was an attempt to evade burdensome registration fees and additional unproductive nonsensical paperwork 😛

This one baffles me. Except from the COR standpoint. That is, your COR has an absolute say over who participates in their Scouting program. But, if you clear it with your COR, then I don't see the issue.

Our solution: have adults in the unit register as the counselor for as many MBs as they . Then, have Scouts invite "guest" instructors in when you are having that piece of program. When complete, you sign off the reqs as MBC. This still does not quite meet the "Adult Association" method you were talking about... having the Scout learn to make arrangements for a MB with a new person. (Because we usually do these in small group settings, so only one Scout is making the guest arrangements.) Also, I have talked with several leaders in other units who say they just invite the "guests" to do the instruction, then sign off the MBs in Scoutbook, without being an MBC. No, this does not meet the intent or design of the program, IMO, but the practice is underway...

I think BSA does not really know what side their bread is buttered on. IMO, fewer adult volunteers will only mean fewer Scouts for the membership rolls.

BTF Chlor Tabs https://www.webstaurantstore.com/national-chemicals-inc-13002-btf-chlor-tab-bar-glass-sanitizer-tablet-100-count/99913002A.html We have a volunteer who runs a restaurant supply... he gets them wholesale, and donates when needed. Check with your local restaurant supply... they might sell them at cost to a Scout Troop. One tablet per wash basin of rinse water, marked to two gallons, which gives more than 100 ppm minimum for recommended (depends on which source you use) chlorine concentration. I think the bottle says 1 tab per 2 1/2 gal water gives 100 ppm. Scouts will often not fill to the basin mark, but that just makes the concentration stronger, which I am OK with. As long as they keep the sanitizing water "clean" this solution lasts all day, so could be good for three meals. I think directions say good for 24 hours?? BTW, tossing out dishwater ought to go like this... 1. Rainbow toss your rinse water. 2. Screen gunk out of wash water (we use old window screen) while pouring into empty rinse basin. This goes in garbage... 3. Rainbow toss wash water. 4. Pour half your sanitize water in each empty basin. Let sit for a few minutes. 5. Rainbow toss. Now all basins are clean. (If your wash basin was especially yucky, dump out the wash basin first, then use the sanitize water from the rinse basin for a second soak.) Postscript: Advertised price for BTF puts them at about 27 cents per tablet. Steramine advertised on Amazon is 6 cents per tablet (with Prime). 1 tab per gallon. Might be a more thrifty solution if you have to buy. (Don't know how long solution lasts. I do not want to dive down the rabbit hole of test strips. 😛 ) Post-postscript: Dishes usually aren't the culprit when things go bad. Two highest causes of gastro problems are unwashed hands, and poor food prep practices. Your time is better spent teaching/supervising those than worrying about bleach or ammonia concentrations!

Ahhh... I see how I got things crossed up for you... @DannyG mentioned Steramine specifically.... so I was responding to that. And yes @T2Eagle, Steramine is a quaternary ammonium product, so do not use with chlorine bleach. We bring bleach tablets. Apologize for the disorganized thoughts...