InquisitiveScouter

Agree, if they participate... we have some Scouts with sparse attendance at meetings and rare attendance on outings. They do things for advancement purposes only, because they (and their parents) focus on advancement as the end, and not the means. If I was the benevolent dictator, I'd not renew many of our Scouts' registrations each year, due to lack of participation... that, in order to focus more of our resources on the ones that do come and participate.

It is easy to lie, cheat, and steal your way to Eagle Scout... I have seen many a "Paper Eagle Scout" over the years. It has literally become akin to "pay your fee, get your degree." If you keep your membership up, attend a few summer camps where you sit around a picnic table and listen to a 15 year old talk about a merit badge, and have your parents do your project, you, too, can be given an Eagle Scout rank patch. When these come to me for assistance, I hold to the requirements. Nothing more, and nothing less. I do not sign requirements if I believe the Scout has not done them as written, and have had some parents be quite upset with me when I refuse to participate in helping them maintain the facade. They have always found someone else with, let's say, a different standard of integrity, who will sign off stuff... My stance is always that "I am only responsible for my own actions."

The OP also ignores elements of complexity in the organization... When you first "sign up", you really have no idea what you are getting into. The organizational structures and policies are discovered or revealed to you over time. (Or they change...) It is also naive to expect anyone to agree 100% with every policy or decision that comes down the pipe. The organization is made of people... and people often make poor decisions. I agree with the ideals, aims, and methods of Scouting, and I pursue those. I find the organization is often at war within itself because of policies, actions, decisions taken which do not coherently align with the ideals, aims, and methods. Here is a case in point... The Scout Oath presents a tenet to us to be morally straight. For most of its history, BSA prohibited open homosexuals from being adult leaders in the organization. They even won a challenge to this policy in the Supreme Court. In my faith and belief, acts of homosexuality are a moral evil. Therefore, I did not, and do not support the BSA's reversal on this policy. I can tolerate the policy, but I do not accept it. There is a difference... I have learned to reconcile this, given the circumstances of BSA's other policies surrounding the issue... to wit, our CO has the latitude to prohibit adults who openly profess or practice homosexuality, and our Troop Committee / parents will not accept a leader into our fold who does so. These parents do not wish their children to be exposed to these ideas in our Scouting environment. Further, BSA policy specifically prohibits discussions of these matters in a Scouting setting. So, the issue should never be brought up. In effect, this is equivalent to a don't ask, don't tell policy. I do encounter volunteers in BSA who openly push the issue. I simply disengage and walk away. See item 6. in the Scouter Code of Conduct: "I will not discuss or engage in any form of sexual conduct while engaged in Scouting activities. I will refer Scouts with questions regarding these topics to talk to their parents or spiritual advisor."

So, you'd rather everyone drink the Kool-aid? And if they do not want to, nor fall in line with everything, then they should leave?

We have tried, but, like most of these positions, you usually wind up with a Scout doing little more than wearing a patch and doing some "low threshold" tasks during their tenure. (to use your words.) Big picture, for each SPL tenure of office (for this unit it is every six months), the SPL must appoint a slate of PORs. Many often continue in their role, and that is fine. Shortly after installation into his office, the SPL organizes and leads an Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops (ILST). During ILST, the PORs learn about their jobs and SMART goals. They must use that information to develop three SMART goals for their tenure, and the goals must be approved by the SPL (and the SM) I am the adult in our unit who mentors the OE Guide. The three goals we see are along these lines: 1. By the end of my tenure, I will complete the Outdoor Ethics Orientation Course, S1110. ( An alternate to this is, by the end of tenure, I will assist in teaching an S110.) 2. By the end of my tenure, I will complete the Outdoor Ethics Awareness Award. (Or alternate, I will complete my OE Action Award.) 3. By the end of my tenure, I will give two 5-minute presentations on an Outdoor Ethics topic or principle at a Troop meeting, both of which must include teaching and practicing a hands-on skill. (How to hang a bear bag, how to deal with dishwater after a meal, how to measure 200 feet so you know where to dump dishwater, how to erase the evidence of a fire using Leave No Trace techniques, etc.) The Scout should come up with these goals, but often, the Scout does not "know what right looks like." I view these as all low threshold, but it seems over the last decade or so, even these have become significant challenges for Scouts. And, we have not had an OE Guide for the last year. We try to use the job descriptions from the Scout Handbook to create the SMART goals, as those list specific tasks of the position. Creating and approving the goals is a chore, and we often fall short on doing the work necessary to ensure accountability for the goals, unless the Scout needs the position as credit for advancement. Our Scouts generally avoid PORs nowadays, unless needed for rank advancement... a sad state of affairs if you ask me, and one of the signs that our unit is on a downward trajectory. (I see this dearth of effort to drive accountability [by SPL and adults] as a contributing factor to the downward trajectory.)

And how about a drawing of a pirate holding a sword in one hand, and a VIPER in the other?? Now that would be cool

And another... and this will (as it has in the past) generate controversy... Pet peeve: Requiring a Scout to say "Thank You" when handing a folded pocketknife. And admonishing them when they do not. Read your Scout Handbook. A "Thank You" is required only when handing an axe. Should a Scout say "Thank You"? Yes, of course, a Scout is Courteous. Must a Scout say it, as a matter of instruction and requirement? No. If you say "yes", then do you impose the same requirement for the exchange of all other items? Pens and pencils, books, papers, spatulas, first aid kits, food items, etc, etc, etc. that have as much risk as a folded pocketknife?

OK... a pet peeve... yelling "Signs Up!"

Bottom Line: CO owns the money, too... not council. Here is the last finance guidance I have from BSA legal on disposition of funds upon dissolution of a unit. I have not searched for an update on this. Please review. https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_BSA_Units_May_2023.pdf Also, you find nothing of the sort in the current Charter Agreement form: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/524-95625-Annual-Charter-Agreement.pdf Now, that will not stop council from asking for the money. We had a Crew fold here a few years ago... the unit returned excess monies to CO, and then CO asked the council what to do with it. Council said, of course, to give it to them. However, there was a big problem... some unit members had already paid dues and membership fees for the next charter year. The decision to fold was made after some had already paid. When the families found out, they, rightfully, asked for their money back, as they had paid for next year's program. They got nothing. Due to this incident, a few families left Scouting for good. I fault the unit leadership, the CO, and council for the situation. The unit committee did not uphold their end of the bargain: "The unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations." I would argue that the return of dues for the future year was a "unit obligation."

Avoid calling attention to your own deeds. Allow others the opportunity to ask about them, or recognize your achievements. We should all practice humility.

One way we have developed to slow it down, and to make sure Scouts know it, is to do a repeat after me Scout Oath, Law, and Outdoor Code. A little pressure is a wonderful impetus to learn something well 😜

Welcome @Patt_00 to the forum! Glad you are finally able to air your voice

Yes, at the "national" level... but this very much depends on your state and county health departments, also. For example, from the Ten Mile River Scout Reservation Leaders Guide, the edicts of the People's Republic of New York are "New York State law requires all Scouts who attend camp for more than one week to complete an additional form about meningitis. See “Meningitis ” on page 18 for more information. In March 2024, the Sullivan County Department of Public Health issued Local Board of Health Public Health Order No. 1 – 2024 Children’s Camps. It requires that all campers at any summer camp in the county have certain vaccinations, and this will apply to every Scout who will be camping at TMR this summer. A copy of the order is included with the TMR version of the AHMR. Quoting from the order: All campers must have documentation of these vaccinations administered before the beginning of camp: • Diphtheria and Tetanus toxoid-containing vaccine and Pertussis vaccine (Dtap/DTP/Tdap) • Hepatitis B vaccine or proof of immunity • Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccine (MMR) or proof of immunity (positive titer) • Polio vaccine (IPV/OPV) • Varicella (Chickenpox) vaccine or proof of immunity • Meningococcal conjugate vaccine (MenACWY)- Measles ” on page 19 Sullivan County requires documentation for all campers, adult leaders and staff of proof of immunity to measles. Thus, it’s important that the date of measles vaccination be included on the AHMR." https://tenmileriver.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/TMR-Guide-25.pdf YYMV in your state...

Haven't seen anything "published" is the usual manner... or in Annual Report to Congress since 2023: https://www.scouting.org/about/annual-report/ Or NAM presentations, 2024: https://nam.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2024/05/Change-the-Way-We-Work-Together.pdf Transparency has never been a strength of BSA (my opinion). Which is often a signal that bad news pervades and must be hidden from view. (again, opinion).

OK, I'll humor you, but I'll give you rough numbers... Dec 2018, over 8000 Scouts (all programs in our council), over 2000 in our district, with almost 40 troops Dec 2024, less than 5000 Scouts, 1.2K in district, with fewer than 30 Troops. Troops sizes are mixed... some large (35+), some mid-sized (15-35), some small (<15) Since 2018, we have lost a fourth of our Troops, and that is factoring in the addition of 8 girl troops. (One girl Troop folded last year) Five districts in council, most without a DE for some time. Our district very active, with an event for Cubs and Scouts at district level almost every month, except during Summer Camp season. Including council events, there is something for Troops and Packs literally every month of the year. (For Troops, I think this is too much) Yes, other Troops nearby. I work with our district training crew, and our district is 17.5% points higher in adult training than the next lowest district, 22.5% higher than the lowest district. Our Troop member numbers have remained steady-ish in this time, but only due to gaining the losses from the Troops folding in recent years. We have fewer new Scouts joining over the past three years... (Our Troop met Gold JTE for every year since 2017, with two years of what I like to call "solid gold", that is, gold level in every category.) We are known for having a quality program. Now, your turn for homework... let's see your numbers for comparison.