gpurlee

I think that you can rest assured that there is on-going communication among the major CO's. If you look at the PTC conference schedule, a number of them were together at the Philmont Training Center earlier in the month.

The Girl Scouts do not use the CO model, so obviously the council based model is an option. In a good CO, there can be many benefits. Our CO has provided thousands of scholarship dollars over the year, allowed us to host and has supported numerous fundraising events, been a source of merit badge counselors, has provided support for the PRAY (God and Country) program and many other things. It has provided a bus for trips in the past. We have had our own Scout meeting room since 1926. It has sponsored us for over a century, so it is in the DNA of the church and the units. The program is represented on our council of ministries as an integral program and is listed as a priority for the church. Even if we follow the United Methodist conference recommendation and switch to a council based model, I full expect the relationship to continue. We just sent one of our leaders to the UMC/Scouting conference at Philmont which just concluded a few hours ago. Assuming that the BSA survives and that the national UMC relationship is not damaged beyond repair.

The membership standards department is responsible for ensuring that youth in the program are safe and that the integrity of the BSA program is maintained. They are housed in Irving, Texas at the end of a long hallway behind closed door and a soundproofed wall I am told. The review team has a reputation of being very competent and professional from individuals who have worked with them. If there is a "credible allegation" made, membership can be revoked. The BSA has chosen to err on the side of caution, so persons may have membership terminated on the basis of an allegation that has little supporting documentation. The individual is sent a letter through their council office stating that their membership has been revoked along with a very nonspecific reason. They are also informed that there is an appeal and review process. The individual is requested to provide documentation supporting the reason for their reinstatement. In some cases a teleconference is held to further discuss the allegation. This often is a very prolonged process. Yes, people have had their membership restored when the review concludes that standards have not been violated. The review team will make a recommendation and there is a "signoff" process with the local council executive. In some instances, individuals have challenged their membership revocation in court. Courts have generally upheld that the BSA as a private organization can set their own membership standards and control the process. However, they have also stated that due process must be available. Nevertheless, that is a difficult route to go not only because of the costs but also due to the fact that the court filing becomes a very public proceeding. Now, however, the bankruptcy claims process has created a very unique and frustrating situation for many Scouters past and present. Remember that the claims are allegations, not proven fact. And that the Court cautioned that there would be fraudulent or frivolous claims among the legitimate claims. In speaking to persons who have reviewed claims, they have stated that there are clearly claims where no abuse or violation of youth protection standards at the time were violated. Nevertheless, membership revocation was automatically triggered. For Scouters named in a claim, their membership was immediately revoked without any significant vetting or attempts to verify claims. They received a telephone call from the local Scout executive (at the discretion of the council) along with a certified form letter processed through the council. They were only told that they were named in a claim in a particular decade. No information was shared on the details of the claim, location, etc., due to confidentiality agreements. They were informed that law enforcement would be notified and there was an appeal process . They could provide documentation for review. Which may be somewhat difficult when you are not given any details of the claim. In addition, the head of the sponsoring institution, the chartered organization representative and the unit committee chairpersons are also sent copies of the membership revocation letter. For those who have appealed, they have discovered that there is no appeal process available at the present time to review the membership revocation which has occurred through the bankruptcy process. So, you can imagine the frustration. I have spoken to several people caught in this situation. Potentially hundreds if not thousands of Scouters are faced with being in Scouting limbo or purgatory with no route for resolution of their membership status in sight.

There are multiple points of contention between the chartered organizations and the BSA at the present time. Perhaps the most contentious one is a court filing a few months ago as part of the restructuring plan. It included a section that discussed insurance and chartered organizations. It is important to understand that for decades chartered organizations were told that "the BSA has your back" and would provide adequate insurance. It came as a shock to the CO's to discover that the BSA was essentially stating there was no insurance coverage for past claims. Three reasons were stated and varied according to the specific year. (1) The CO's were not listed as an additional insured, (2) the insurance coverage for a specific year had reached its cap and was exhausted or (3) there was insurance but the CO was responsible for "very high deductibles." You can imagine that faced with the prospect of thousands of potential lawsuits, this was not well received news for the CO's. So now, many of the CO's are joining in the refrain of "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on ..."

This letter was sent to every United Methodist conference throughout the nation a couple of days ago advising them to discontinue with the traditional charter agreement. While it is still up to the individual congregation to make this decision, this recommendation will carry a lot of weight. And will likely move other denominations to take similar action. The mediations with the denomination have clearly been contentious at times. If the BSA loses the support of the chartering organizations, it is difficult to see how it can successfully move past the impacts of the bankruptcy and the pandemic.

Welcome to the forums SiouxRanger. Thank you for your post. You have valid points. It should be noted that established bankruptcy law dictates the priority of some of the claims such as pension funds. Unfortunately, the fallout from this situation may continue for some time.

This is a real dilemma for the United Methodist Church which has been an incredibly strong supporter of Scouting for a century. There is a desire to maintain a positive relationship with the Scouting program that has served many local communities for decades. A national legal team has been working on these issues for months now in mediation with the BSA. The United Methodist Church operates through regional conferences which cover a specific geographic area such as a state or a portion of a large state. The conference legal team headed by a "chancellor' will issue an opinion or recommendation. Some conferences may choose to act now in giving a recommendation to local congregations and others may wait to see how this situation develops. It is clear that this relationship between the BSA and the UMC is strained, to say the least. And as the Methodists go, many of the other denominations are likely to follow. Church sponsorship of Scouting was essential in the beginning of the BSA movement to provide a public endorsement of the perceived values of the program. Yes, today local churches can opt to host a council chartered unit and simply provide housing. However, the message will be that the BSA has become radioactive. Next week is the 100th anniversary of the UMC - BSA formal relationship and a conference is being held at the Philmont Training Center. It will be interesting to see if any updates will come out of that conference that can be shared publicly And as one attendee said, it will be interesting to see if the mood at Philmont is a celebration or a wake.

None of our three camps apparently will have to be sold. We are in a non extended SOL area. A large endowment and other reserves will be tapped, it appears as of this moment. But the winds may switch suddenly, who knows? It feels that we are momentarily in the eye of this perfect storm. Now we deal with the reality of a 70% loss of membership and perhaps the loss of many of our chartering organizations on the near horizon.

My observations from the TCC meeting tonight were (1) Focusing on body language, vocal tone and facial expressions - weariness among the TCC team was clear. This has been emotionally and physically draining. (2) Resignation - "no one is happy right now" (3) This may be the best deal we can get to avoid years of litigation. (4) More news in the next 24 hours

Pretty impressive powers of prediction - almost to the day. Any thoughts on this week's Powerball?

I have been very surprised at the number of active, long-term Scouters in our community who have little idea of what is playing out. I think that the executive board has an understanding of the potential risk but have been warned not to share information. At the district and unit level, most are (blissfully?) ignorant. This has entered the radar of some of the larger CO's but for the most part they also appear oblivious or at the very least uncertain if and how this could affect them for something that they sponsored perhaps 20, 30 or 40 years ago.

It our area, at least, it is my understanding that the many of the chartered organizations which sponsored a unit named in a bankruptcy claim have not yet been notified that there is a potential claim looming for their organization. Add to that shock, the fact the BSA has stated in court filings that there may not be any insurance coverage available or that the CO will be responsible for very high deductibles. There is a tsunami approaching for the chartered organizations that will affect even those that have no current claim or are located in a state without extended statue of limitations. For the most part, even the large denominational sponsors have had very limited communications with local congregations because of the uncertainty. Most CO's are simply unaware and not at all prepared to face a major lawsuit. There is no apparent process visible to even communicate with and to advise them, especially for the CO's not linked to a major denomination. Given the strict confidentiality limitations imposed upon the claims, how can a CO even assess the potential risk to them and whether they should participate in a "contribution" toward the settlement trust before being served with a lawsuit? The ramifications are likely to shake the current BSA model to the very core.

A friend of mine sits on various national mediation tables. There are apparently multiple "tables" that change composition and deal with specific issues. It is a position that he could not have imagined himself being in two years ago. We never discuss specifics because of confidentiality. Just impressions sometimes. Words like "contentious" and "mess" come up. How could this not be a mess? Tens of thousands of traumatic abuse claims. Billions of dollars at stake. Camps, councils and programs that Scouts and Scouters have poured their passion, time and energy into are at risk. A century old program that has survived world wars and depressions feeling like it could be on the verge of collapse. Enough attorneys to sink a battleship or perhaps the Titanic. Yes, bankruptcies are messy. And this one especially so.

One of the things that immediately jumped out at me as I quickly skimmed the video of the national annual meeting is that the public face of Scouting, in terms of leadership, is a bunch of middle to senior aged white men (full disclosure I also fall into that group). This is one of the challenges that we face if we hope to rebrand as a 21st Century organization that values diversity.

The Michigan Crossroads council was the second largest council in the nation. If I recall, it is a merger of several Michigan councils a few years ago. I think that the number one council in size was Utah National Parks and the third largest was Great Salt lake Council, both of those two are in heavily LDS areas. I suspect that the Michigan Crossroads Council is probably now the largest council in America, probably by several thousand Scouts. Just because of sheer membership numbers, it would not be unexpected that they would have a large number of claims.

As I glanced at Crossroad's Promise to Parents, several random thoughts flickered across my mind: (1) We continue to deal with the same issues on providing quality Scouting as we did fifty years ago when I was a (very) young Scout leader. Only with a lot more issues and distractions today. (2) Quality Scouting is hard! It takes a lot of time, commitment and other resources over a prolonged period of time. (3) There are very few chartering organizations that view Scouting as more than a community group housed in their facility. And this has really affected the consistency of the quality of our programs. (4) We rely a lot on our commissioner corps to assist and monitor our units. Unfortunately, in most districts our commissioner corps is very undermanned, under trained and often not especially welcomed by units (which is a whole different topic). (5) There are very few truly excellent units (yet another topic worthy of a new thread). I refer back to point two. I would very strongly recommend my friend Mark Ray's excellent resource "The Scoutmaster's Other Handbook" as a good start if you want to delve more into this particular topic.

Welcome to the forum 100thEagleScout. We are glad to have you here.

I agree with many of the previous posts. The BSA has sustained a record setting loss in membership in the past 12 months. In our council, the Cub Scout program has suffered an 80 percent loss in membership. Many Cub Packs have ceased to meet in any form for a full year now. This pack leadership which is critical to the success of a unit is no longer there. In addition, many previous sponsors are hesitant to welcome Scouting back into their organization. The traditional recruitment method of back to school nights has been disrupted, Last year's local efforts to use social media for recruitment had less than 10 percent of previous year's recruitment numbers. While many Scout troops have continued to meet, their major means of recruitment has been totally disrupted. The impact of six months of advertising related to abuse claims on recruitment has yet to be fully determined. There has also been a fundamental shift by today's families away from programs that require on-going, long term intensive time commitments. My daughter, who grew up in a very active Scouting family, has noted that her friends who have Cub Scout age children are seeking short-term programs such as those run by parks departments or wildlife groups. The heavy lifting is done by paid staff and families can participate with their children without needing to invest significant amounts of planning and training time. I truly appreciate the local unit Scouters and families who are doing their best to maintain quality programs amid all of these challenges and uncertainty of this past year. Many of them have dedicated countless years of service to youth in their community. Most are very concerned about the future of the BSA but continue to do their best every week to provide a good experience for the families who are involved.

Muttsy - welcome to the forum. There are some very good, diverse and spirited discussions here. We are glad to have you as a part of them.

Buried on page fifty-two of document 4108 in the court filings is a series of statements that have the potential to shake the relationship between the BSA and the chartered organizations, both past and present, to the core. Historically, the relationship between the BSA and the chartered partners has rested upon the assumption that each party would uphold its commitments. For decades most chartered organizations have had the understanding (or at least the strong belief) that the BSA would provide legal defense and BSA provided insurance coverage in the event that a lawsuit was brought against the organization while sponsoring a BSA related program. In the document section which is posted below, the BSA appears to assert that insurance coverage may not be available for those chartered organizations that are facing the potential of lawsuits related to abuse claims. The document appears to state: (1) Before 1976 chartered organizations were not covered partners (2) For many years during the 1980's, insurance coverage limits may already be exhausted or near exhaustion depending on the specific year. (3) Before 1984 the BSA is stating that its agreements with the chartered organizations state that it will not provide primary coverage. (4) After 1986, the chartered organizations would be responsible for high deductibles It is hard to imagine that the CO's will not be stunned if this is indeed the case at a time where many are facing the prospect of major lawsuits. And it is hard to imagine that the CO's will not have serious reservations about continued sponsorship in the future if this proves to be the case. Section is pasted below: https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/213bd53f-b44f-45c9-97fc-246bcb7ca06b_4108.pdf Chartered Organizations’ Rights Under the BSA Insurance Policies Starting in or around 1976, the BSA included Chartered Organizations as insureds on its Insurance Policies. Specifically, the BSA added sponsors and Chartered Organizations as insureds. It is the BSA’s position that Chartered Organizations are not an insured under any of the BSA’s pre-1976 Insurance Policies; therefore, Chartered Organizations have no right to access the proceeds of these Insurance Policies to pay Abuse Claims.37 To the extent that the Chartered Organizations have rights to the BSA’s post-1976 Insurance Policies, those rights are limited as such Insurance Policies have deductible obligations (as noted above), aggregate limits, exhausted limits, settlements, exclusions, etc. For example, the BSA’s 1978 Insurance Policy includes a deductible endorsement that requires a $250,000 deductible be met for each occurrence; therefore, Chartered Organizations access to the 1978 to 1980 Insurance Policies is limited by the required deductible obligation. The Chartered Organizations’ access to the BSA’s 1980 to 1982 Insurance Policies are likewise limited given many of these policies are either insolvent, exhausted or released through settlement. Further, the BSA’s 1983 to 1985 Insurance Policies are also subject to aggregate limits, many of which have been substantially eroded based on pre-petition settlements and payments. Additionally, in 1984, the Insurance Policies included an endorsement that provided that the Insurance Policies would be primary insurance for Chartered Organizations. However, prior to 1984, there was no such endorsement or language in the BSA policies. Therefore, for all pre1984 claims, Chartered Organizations would not have primary access to the BSA’s Insurance Policies. The Chartered Organizations would likewise be responsible for the high deductibles on all post-1986 Insurance Policies. 37 The BSA understands that some Chartered Organizations have asserted they are insured under the pre-1976 Insurance Policies. The BSA disputes this contention. Case 20-10343-LSS Doc 4108 Filed 05/16/21 Page 52 of 357

I attended a national conference on youth protection with the top experts in the field present. In terms of Scouting, it was reported that the number one category of abuse is now youth on youth. I would anticipate that any revisions in youth protection training would see an increased emphasis in this area. Already several scouting units have apparently implemented single person tenting only among youth.

I would agree with the other moderators that we need everyone's help to: (1) Be respectful of each other and to value diverse opinions. This is one topic that not all of us will share the same perspective. And that is the value of this forum. (2) Take a moment to reread what you have just written and make sure that it says what you intend it to say (and refer back to point one) (3) Try to avoid reposting the same point over and over again. After a while it really detracts from the forum. A lot of us are emotionally very invested in the Scouting program and wish for the best possible outcomes for everyone in a very difficult, complex situation. You can sense the pain and frustration in many of the comments. The moderators have really struggled to maintain an informative and positive tone in the forum because we recognize the value of being to share our thoughts, feelings and concerns with one another. But we need your help to continue to do so. Many of you have stated to us that this is one of the most valuable and informative sources of information that currently exists on-line. Let's keep it that way.

You could build an argument that the growth of the BSA was in significant part a Boomer phenomena. The following generations have not gravitated toward Scouting or longer term activities nearly to the same degree. You can see that also with Rotary, Lion's Clubs as well as churches. Our Cub Pack (at least when it was meeting before the pandemic) still has a lot of Boomers who are the primary parents even though in reality they are the grandparents. Without that group of Boomer grandparents, the pack would be half the size it is. My daughter who is in her 30's and her peers seem to seek short-term activities rather than multi-year programs for their children. The traditional Scouting model will continue to face recruitment challenges unless it can somehow adapt.

In the early 1980's we had a leading church consultant work with our congregation. Lyle Schaller, the consultant, had worked with hundreds of churches across the nation and was a prolific writer, authoring almost fifty books. I remember his comment regarding Scouting programs. He stated that the vast majority of congregations whom he had visited, treated Scouting programs as an outside group housed by the church rather than an active part of the church's ministry, even if they proudly called it "our troop." A Scout Sunday service and an annual chili supper fund-raiser often were the only face to face involvement that the Scouts had with the congregation. Schaller's definition of true church ownership included being a part of the annual church program planning, regular involvement by adult church members and church youth, selection of key unit leadership whose personal values mirrored that of the church and inclusion in the church budget. On the other hand, I recall district executives seeking to recruit new units sponsors, who promised it would require minimal time involvement on the part of the church and they would get a service project thrown in to boot. We reap what we sow?

Welcome to the forum. Hope you can find some peace in the knowledge of the positive contributions that you made in the lives of youth and adults served through Scouting.