Navybone

Too bad, ussscouts.org is like using a webpage from the mid 1990s. Ugg. Boyscouttrail.com?

I keep re-reading this section hoping that I am reading it wrong. It implies that options are simply an easy way out for scouts, and I do not think that is right. What if the "easiest and the simplest" provides a meaningful experience to the scout? Just because an option is harder does not necessarily translate into more meaningful. Maybe the opportunity is that they scouts get to decide which to the multiple options THEY want to take.

Seems that if you are going to deliberately decide the BSA's ten essentials are not right or required since it is a short (10 miles) hike, then be confident in your assessment. If you are including a knife, filter, and matches to ensure that you are prepared in the event something goes wrong (why is a flashlight an overabundance of caution and not a knife, filter, or matches), then the logic for not including the flashlight is questionable. I do not think the 10 essentials are "canonical" in an effort just to be directive in nature, but based on lessons learned the hard way over time and written in blood.

Great point also. Make it fun!

My son just completed his first Boy Scout summer camp. earned swimming - and totally think that is a great 1st year merit badge is the scout is a decent swimmer. He also did Trail to First class. And he and the other boys in the troop who took the course loved it. Was it perfect, no. Was it enough to make them smarter and more confident in scouting, 100% yes. It is not the only time they will learn or tie knots, for example, but gave them a great foundation. He also earned Pioneering, which he did to be more confident in knots and so he would learn how to build structures. Loved it. We were advised to take a balanced mix at camps, and it worked wonderfully. He learned a ton, be became so much more confident outdoors, and left excited to be a scout. What else should a first year scout come away with? PS- but I like the idea of first aid next year.

Eagle, thanks - had not seen the picture or any of the context with them. than clears up quite a bit of the issue. Some quick research on this site and the magic of google shows she this has already been a source of considerable debate. However, going back to the original post, the actions of one (Ms. Ireland), should not impugn the work of other young women working toward Eagle.

A photo only shows you one thing - that she is wearing Life Scout. Unless there is additional information in the photo or accompanying it, that is all it tells you. What was her history with scouting, was she a venturer, how involved is her family, her troop, her motivation? It does not and cannot tell you that anything was fudged, fabricated, altered, or all together ignored.

Unless you are personally aware of personally involved with, or have documentation of, shortcuts taken by individual you mention, is is not fact. It is supposition on your part.

No, the rule of law is part of the discussion for the citizenship in the nation merit badge discussion about the laws and founding documents of the United States it is not part of advancement, but what we the program instills in our Scouts

Two reason I look at this differently. 1. A scout is trustworthy - if she did not meet the requirements, she is obviously not meeting the intend, standards, and ideals of scouting. 2. Part of the rule of law that we teach scouts is innocent until proven guilty. The onus is not on her to prove you wrong, she only has to make her case to her troop and her council.

The success and meaning of the Eagle Scout is based on the integrity of the system. And there are many posts in the thread that doubt that a girl was able to do what was required in such a quick time, despite lack of evidence to the contrary. I have to wonder if it is based on concern for the integrity of scouting, or simply continued angst and disagreement with the decision to allow females in scouts. If it is the former and short cuts are made, than BSA leadership needs to step up and ensure the process and system remains solid. If it is the latter, the only results of their efforts will be to further damage the reputation of scouting and Eagle Scout, which I hope is not their intent.

Wildly - with males and well as females.

she seems really motivated!

Absolutely - Engage the scouts and let them understand why hats, slogans, etc, can be interpreted differently, why some people take umbrage at symbols. Is this not what we want the scouts to be - is this not why there are the three citizenship merit badges. Don't we want the scouts to grow up thinking, being able to critically examine an agreement, not mindlessly provide what they have been told. However, if the debate devolves into a two-sided argument that is not constructive, than it is time to step in. there is a reason that in the Navy, three topics not to be discussed over the dinner table were politics, religion, and members of the opposite sex. They can be polarizing.

I think it is a stretch to assume that the boy does not love his country or that he disrespects the flag or the US. As I have mentioned before, he would have learned that the flag is a symbol and not a holy relic. It is a symbol of a great country. Also, that being a good citizen includes speaking up for those who have no voice. Again, the Webelos took a position, now let’s let him explain it. I think being able to discuss it makes him, and his den, a better scout(s).

Totally agree.

To the point of what did it accomplish - it has been successful - people are talking. If I think about it, not sure that Scouts should have a definite definition on if a protest is ok in uniform. It is quite right to explain the action of one is not the position of the organization, but the Scouts is about developing thinking men and women. And if this boy can explain is reasoning, there is great value to be gained here.

A few thoughts- as a 5th grader, he would be learning about his roles and responsibilities as a citizen as part of Building a Better World. I would hope that Den Leaders include the role to stand up for their rights as part of the conversion. I did with my AOL Webelos. Maybe the boy's Den Leader followed this up with the boy explaining what the Pledge of Allegiance means to him - it is part of the Scouting Adventure. what an opportunity to discussion and understanding what the pledge is about (not just rote memorization). This is an opportunity for the boy to explain his actions to his den. And that will reveal if this was just his dads influence, or if he took the lessons he is learning to heart. And an opportunity to discuss if he was learning the lessons the Boy Scouts hope he learns. To the boys point, he has his jacket on, so not wearing or showing his scout uniform, but maybe a quibbling point. How about the boy not holding his hand over his heart? last thought - where is the time and place to protest in uniform ever mentioned in any BSA literature? Scouts are expected to be Brave ( to have courage), Obedient (to the nation's laws ), and and Loyal (to the nation), but nowhere does it say he has to a robot. I am not a necessarily fan, and if one of my scout did it I would probably be upset as being disrespectful, at least in the moment. But he is not, he takes as stand. I would just expect him to be able to articulate why, on his own.