Mrjeff

I'm not sure where some of these points come from, but several are incorrect on so many levels. For example the OA Sash is only worrn at OA events or while conducting OA business. You can breathe because your correct that ones first responsible to their unit and just like most things in life a person gets out of the OA to the level they contribute. The OA should work in conjunction with the units to enhance the Scouting experience and not compete with each other. Oh well, that's enough for now.

Thank you so much for that reply!

AMEN!!!!

Perhaps its time for a change of command. The incoming unit leader could focus on the fun and not worry about "what these boys need to learn is...." The adult leadership in the OA should learn that the lodge doesn't belong to them and what they did is irrelevant unless it aligns with what the voting members want. Jezzzzzzzzzz.............what happened to just having a good time ?

In order for a youth to be elected they must have Scoutmaster approval. The election team really has no idea who is eligible and they rely on the list provided by the SM. This approval or disapproval MUST be exercised before the election and its really that simple.

Again I have to ask, what does a national committee know about the successes or failures of a local lodge? I would wager that it ain't much. Make suggestions, provide help if requested, worry about NOAC, but leave the workings of the individual lodges to the local councils that are not owned or administered by the national organization. Their words, not mine.

How about trustworthy, loyal, brave, clean and reverent?

⁹0The national committee should mind their own business. If a lodge can come to an agreement with their local Native Americans then leave them alone. If not give advice concerning alternatives. But don't issue cease and decist directives where there is no problem.

I heard this rumor too, but could not substantiate it.

This is wonderful, but I can find a tribal pastor to say the exact opposite so who do we listen to?

Ok guys, I am a lodge advisor and my support of youth leadership is unwavering. If a national OA Committee made up of mostly youth members the decisions that they make would be more palatable. As it is that committee is made up of adults. These far reaching choices should be made by the kids who are affected by these choices. If the pieces keep getting chopped off, soon there will be nothing left, and to me, it looks like that may be the goal.

I guess that my major concerns are these. The OA started out as a way to honor a few outstanding camp staff members. It then became a society of Scout Honor Campers and then the Scouting National Honor Society, all the while focused on service and camp promotions. The trappings and ceremonial movement are very close to those of another ancient and respected organization and my fellow travelers know exactly what I am talking about. If those specific things were removed there would be no Order of the Arrow. Youth leadership is supposed to be the groundwork of the OA but the many decisions effecting the order are influenced by adults or made without regard to the opinions of the youth leadership. These decisions are also made with little or no regard for the members who make up the order. These decisions do not take into account of the differences between the cultural and social norms that exist throughout the United States. They also fail to consider the relationships that exist between cultural entities within specific geographic regions. With a little creativity solutions could be created that would be generally accepted across the board. If the local tribe located in the southeast supports the program, then let it be. If the local tribe in the mid west objects, then make the necessary changes. Clearly, the BSA will never be as it once was and neither will the OA but if it ain't broke don't fix it, even if it creates differences in the way the program is presented.

This is really awsome and displays just how easy it is to do a Google search and cut/paste one article to substantiate your opinion, for which you are completly entitled. However; it does not negate the fact that I have never met a First Nation citizen who has any negative thoughts or issues with our current Order of the Arrow practices or customs.

This is really awsome and displays just how easy it is to do a Google search and cut/paste one article to substantiate your opinion, for which you are completly entitled. However; it does not negate the fact that I have never met a First Nation citizen who has any negative thoughts or issues with our current Order of the Arrow practices or customs.

This is really awsome and displays just how easy it is to do a Google search and cut/paste one article to substantiate your opinion, for which you are completly entitled. However; it does not negate the fact that I have never met a First Nation citizen who has any negative thoughts or issues with our current Order of the Arrow practices or customs.

I think that you have identified the issues! We have turned into a culture that accepts good enough rather then quality. Everybody who shows up gets a pass no matter how they participated. Everything should be available to everyone and everyone's rights and feelings are more important then your own. Thomas Payne stated that if you are afraid to offend you cannot be honest. I would venture a guess that if you asked, your Scouts wouldn't even know who Thomas Payne was. Perhaps the BSA and all of its goals,nstandards and traditions has run its course, outlived its usefulness and should just pass into obscurity. This may be a better fate then turning it into something that is only a shell of what it once was.

I'm a little confused.

Not being rude simply stating that if you are not a member of the first nation you really don't have a complaint that needs to be the basis of policy. Exactly is the speaker? Is he a chief, an elder or a fringe radical? WHO IS PUTTING THIS STUFF OUT THERE? Why is it so hard to answer this question, doesn't anybody know or is it just made up BS used by people to advance their own agenda? Like I said before, I have never met or spoken to a Native American who has any issue with the OA and the use of Native American regalia. Somebody somewhere can find something offensive in anything. If its offensive to you then you have a choice not to do it. You do not get to choose whether or not I do it.

Unless you are a tribal member with tribal status and can speak on behalf of First Nation citizens, then you are not one. You are entitled to your ideas and opinions, but really "don't have a dog in the fight." Since you like to mention sports teams, why don't you do a little research into the Florida State Seminole and see where they stand on the issue.

Unfortunately this is just another step in the systematic suicide of the Boy Scouts. I agree that the BSA is a private organization that requires an application and a membership fee. Therefore the private organization can restrict who can be accepted for membership. At one time each member had to agree with the scout oath and law and recognize their duty to God. It was that simple and it worked for a long time. Like it or not, agreemor not, the Boy Scouts stopped using these strict guidelines and turned the BSA into a club med that is open to everyone and has a place for everybody. Sincce it is for everybody and no one can be offended they slowly cut the guts out of a great organization. I would agree that I would rather discontinue the Order of the Arrow rather then see it be reduced to an embarrassing state. When we the stakeholders are fed a bunch of happy crap and membership is continuing to fall someone is not making good decisions. And don't try to convince me that the recent growth spirt is not based on the sudden influx of girls because it is. Before long the liberal, all appeasing, never offending national grand poo-pas wont have to worry because the loyal, long time Scouters will all be dead and there just won't be anyone to replace them.

WHO ARE THEY, anyone can right down anything but exactly who are the complainers? If it is some Berkly professor who thinks its ok if a boy thinks he's a girl or if a girl thinks she's a cat, then they do need to "shut the hell up."

Oh boy, like I said, just try and revoke the membership of someone because they are gay, and see where that goes.

Right......try to revoke the membership of someone who is gay!!!! Also, the BSA has openly stated that they do not own the local councils, and each council is autonomous with their own board of directors. Cant have it both ways.

This whole pile of $&!+ is based on supposition, conjecture and opinions. Who are the people making this an issue. Are they tribal members,mare they tribal elders, do they have any tribal status at all? Or are these decisions being made by a committee who is just guessing? An administration can fill committees with people who will forward their agenda. I gald that I was informed that national committee members work hard because in 50+ years in scouting I don't know anyone on a national anything. This post started out discussing how jacked up and sideways the OA has gotten for many Scouts and Scouters. Maybee some of those hard working mystical national committee folks could use their unquestioned expertise to help improve the lodges that are not doing very well. All of this stuff might be easier to stomach if anyone knew the reasoning behind this mess. I wish someone could direct me towards the first nation citizens who dislike what the OA is doing, because EVERY FIRST NATION MEMBER that I have actually spoken are very supportive. Again, show me the valid comparative research and justify these decisions to each and every stakeholder, or leave it alone and quit stirring crap.

Congress makes the laws, but anyone can violate those laws. Employers, individuals, or governing bodies can all violate the civil liberties of another. And can be held accountable.