mrjohns2

I don't know enough about about these things work. Was this supposed to be the last, best, and final offer? Or an opening bid? I wouldn't mind if they sold off Northern Tier, Sea Base, cancelled explorers, cancelled sea scouts, cancelled venturing, lost all of the endowments, sold everything they mentioned in the proposal, moved the headquarters to the Summit or Philmont, sold the headquarters. Made every council pay a proportional amount to their claim number and or assets. Even then, though, it might not be enough.

I'm don't think $6000 is the right number. Let's say the right number is $1,00,000. What if the BSA doesn't have that? What if they only have $50,000 per legitimate claim?

I don't believe everyone. I also don't believe the BSA was negligent in all of the legitimate cases. I also believe that the BSA might not have the funds or assets to provide adequate compensation. Isn't that why we are in court? To determine who is due what and what BSA can provide?

Define richer? There are plenty of National Parks and National Forests with backcountry backpacking. For example, Glacier National Park. To me HA would be simple to replace compared to a Jamboree. One can do plenty of HA on their own, you just need to want to. Again, if you are looking for unspoiled backcountry, our country has plenty. If you are looking for an all day hike with an evening of mine exploration or logging camp experience, no, not really available. Then again, that isn't what I am looking for in a HA trip. I am looking for hiking in an unspoiled wilderness where you encounter no one.

I don’t know what you are talking about. Growing up, we were a very middle class troop. No trailer, lower middle class Chicago suburb. We drove to the boundary waters. We packed our own food; no backpacking food, too expensive. We rented some of the waterproof bags, but the rest we lined with garbage bags. We did a 12 day canoe trip for about the cost of summer camp. This was just in the notational forest or what ever public lands. The more I hear about the evening program at Phimont, I’m confused. I thought it was wilderness - not some re-enactment dress up program.

My original point is that the BSA argument is that councils are franchises. What they call a charter is a franchise agreement. I could make some arguments the other way, but that is their argument.

It is my understanding that is true for any franchise system. McDonalds can come and shut you down at will.

Very accurate. I was friends with someone for a long time before I heard a peep about their abuse. And even then, it was just a peep. No details.

I don't think this current DB is quite ready for primetime.

When I was a youth serving on the Vigil nomination committee, ours did as well. It is a huge service to others to serve the Scouts year after year at camp.

I don't think that it is that clear cut. That is what makes the whole situation so hard. In some cases, yes BSA was a tangential victim. In others, it was an enabler.

I would add e) general disgust at the BSA for being "too conservative" (not allowing in gay leaders/scouts for so many years, belief in god requirement, connection to LDS, not allowing girls in for so long, perception of connections to the military, headquartered in conservative Texas, and old fashioned/outdated values). Coming from more liberal circles, this is the perspective. It is so hard now that both "sides" are not happy with the BSA.

I am ok about no tenting with parents. There are issues other than just abuse by parents. Scouts and adults are supposed to tent in separate areas of camp. If the scouts and parents are sharing tents, this can't happen. One of the reasons for this is people are opening and closing tent flaps, changing in tents, etc. It just makes good sense.

You asked how we thought they should get paid. I said they should get paid based on the work executed vs. a percentage of settlement.

I would rather pay T&M, but then maybe people aren't going to do a good job of managing their time? They should be paid an amount that compensates them for their time at the going $/hr rate. It should not be a windfall. Just because the defendant has more money, doesn't mean the lawyers should make more money. Now if the case took tons of resources (and thus time), maybe they should get more than 33%, but the complexity and resources needed for the case should dictate that. Not a percentage.

Other than loss of membership and loss of donations, is there a reason why they will run out of money?

They didn't ask me, but I wished they would have gone back to the short lived "Scout BSA" strip from the '70s. Change Scout to Scouts, but keep it small and tidy.

In Northeast Wisconsin, we need a heavy coat a lot. I wouldn't mind a Filson, but the price holds me back. They are made in Seattle, which is neat. They are guaranteed: We guarantee every item made by Filson. No more, no less. We believe in our products and stand by the materials, quality, and workmanship for the lifetime of the product. The product lifetime specifically refers to the time at which, through normal use, the product can no longer function in its intended purpose.

This Filson one? I have been thinking of getting a wool coat and sewing the BSA universal jacket emblem on it. The red wool jack shirts don't have hand pockets, so they are pretty non-functional to me. Filson - Mackinaw Wool Cruiser (bemidjiwoolenmills.com)

Do you really think this is moving fast enough to impact camp this summer? I don't think so, but what do I know?

This conversation reminded me of an old staffer at my camp. He was a generation before me. His personal policy was he was Mr. Smith to those under 18 and Joe to those over. There was an exception, if you were an Eagle Scout under 18, he then said you could call him Joe.

Mr. Latin Scot the Younger: I had a dermatologist whose son followed in his father's footsteps and joined the practice. They were both Dr. Smith in person, but at home we always made distinction between "Dr. Smith the Younger" and "Dr. Smith the Elder".

I agree. I don't like Mr. or Mrs. First Name.

You summed it up quite nicely. At times, I use the Mrs./Mrs./Ms. so much, I even use it during committee meetings, but no one seems to mind. It is hard to "code switch" at times.

Since council camps (including, now camporees etc.) are audited and "permitted" by trained administrators, I assume they assume it is more rigorous in its execution. Sorry for the run on sentence. Often times, it seems as though units look the other way at certain safety things beyond YPT.