yknot

It's not uncommon. It's not just kids who are over scheduled and who are used to helicopter parents -- that is one aspect of it -- but it is also the fact that a lot of kids are being raised with the idea that no social peer can or should tell you what to do. Two exceptions to that are scouts and sports but not every kid has exposure to these activities. Harassment, Intimidation, and Bullying laws in many states, which have been reinforced through the educational system for at least the past ten years, also teach kids not only to not listen to peers but also to not necessarily trust them. Scouts, if they haven't been exposed to it before, kind of asks them to turn all that on its head, so plenty of them are understandably bewildered.

This has the December 2022 membership, a number that was reported in January. Someone on here said at that time that certain positions have access to the membership numbers in real time. Does anyone know if those membership numbers held through March 2023 and the first quarter? Up or down?

Do you mean this? It's Miquin Woods now. https://www.co.hunterdon.nj.us/DocumentCenter/View/2961/Miquin-Woods-Preserve-Trail-Map-PDF?bidId= https://www.co.hunterdon.nj.us/DocumentCenter/View/2960/Miquin-Woods-Preserve-Brochure-PDF?bidId=

I think you are in the majority. This perspective is part of the curriculum and/or character education programs in a lot of public schools today, maybe most, beginning at the early elementary grades and has been for at least 10 years. Kids who learn one level of awareness in the school and community setting are frequently uncomfortable with the different viewpoints and practices that they encounter in the scouting environment. We went from having a handful of OA candidates each year to having zero for the last several I was involved. The NA aspect wasn't a draw, it was a deterrent as far as we experienced.

One of the issues is that there is no central "government" for many of these groups. There is controversy and disagreement within the NA community about who is or is not in a position to speak on these issues. There is no consensus, so the issue for BSA all along has been that it cannot truthfully claim that it has the permission or the blessing of any group to continue its questionable practices. There is no centralized, universally recognized group equivalent to a national government. This has not changed over the hundreds of years that Europeans have been interacting with native Americans but the BSA and its iterations like OA and Mic-O-Say still believe they can validate their traditions in this manner.

If, for some reason, you put a few hundred kids in flying monkey suits in the night sky above you, and you knew they were there and unseen in the dark, you wouldn't risk pointing your laser up there during an astronomy lesson, would you? I would think you would want to give their eyes a wide berth. I'm not a Leave No Trace instructor, but I think the whole point of LNT is to universally leave things that are out there in their own habitat unharmed and undisturbed within it as much as possible. At least by scouts. Googling pretty much confirms that lasers are harmful or at least disruptive to the normal activity of avian wildlife, and used to haze and disperse them; birding experts only use lasers in daylight when they can see what they are doing and know they are not hitting or disturbing anything. If there's any lingering doubt that migrating birds are in the skies at night at high concentrations during certain periods, consult this web site anytime after March 1: birdcast.info. It's a joint project between CSU and Cornell and uses weather surveillance data, radar, and other tools to issue migration forecasts. You can look at the radar and actually see the density of birds overhead during migration. Somewhere around four billion birds migrate in our portion of the hemisphere spring and fall. You might not see them unless you are looking at a fairly full moon through binoculars, but they are there. They are impossible to miss, in more than one way.

Well, try Mr. Google. You can learn all about how lasers are used in bird dispersal. Or there are Audubon chapters in almost every state. Stop by and talk to someone sometime. We're supposed to be an outdoors conservation minded organization. I would think stuff like this wouldn't exactly be news.

We have an observatory in our state park and the astronomers don't use laser pointers for scout talks during spring and fall migration. Songbirds migrate at night. The beam doesn't have to be pointed at them to disorient them.

Bring the binoculars, leave the laser pointers at home. Just fyi, as per below, lasers can be disruptive to bird species, especially during migration months when many migrate at night, and are not allowed in many parks. Using lasers at night is not in alignment with leave no trace principals. https://www.nps.gov/subjects/watchingwildlife/gear.htm Also, regulations regarding possession, safe usage, etc., can vary by state and even municipality. Some shore communities have completely banned their use.

That, and the fact that the cub program itself is very redundant with the school curriculum. They are doing a lot of these things two, three, and four times in the course of a couple years. In my district, almost every kindergarten class goes to the police station and the fire station. Plus fire stations are a popular kid party place. There leventy nine other examples of that in cubs.

In the current bankruptcy case, I am pretty sure I saw some cases that were "estate of... " Maybe one of our legal eagles would remember or know where to find where those cases might be listed to provide an example.

It's a bit sexist to think these concerns are limited to Millennial women. As far as the NFL example, female viewership has increased but youth participation has steadily declined and less than half of Americans now think football is a suitable activity for youth.

We never registered a scout unless the parent also took YPT. Unit rule which solved that problem.

All of scouting is supposed to be 100% transparent to parents even if they are not your ideal parents from a program standpoint. I don't really think any other position is acceptable today.

Good point. I don't think I can take going down some of these rabbit holes again.

It's a big country so it's probably not universal but around here parents are not accepting of adults without kids camping or interacting with kids. It's the same in sports. The only guy I know who was accepted was a pop warner football coach who made the draft but had four daughters.

I just don't see girls as being all that pivotal either way. They are a great and no brainer addition to a youth organization but in the scheme of things, at least here in the US, I'm not sure it has had much bearing other than providing a helpful blip through a couple of very dark years. Where the UK is concerned, I think some of its success has more to do with the fact that it has had consistent, identifiable, high profile advocates from the late Queen to Bear Grylls to more lately Catherine Middleton. They are so high profile, we are aware of their involvement even in the US. I also think the UK organizational structure seems to be a lot more effective than ours. Our structure keeps us tied in knots. The BSA also seems to have put a lot of eggs in its Eagle Scout basket but there just aren't a lot of high profile Eagle Scouts you can point to in the US. Other than a filmmaker, an astronaut, an ex CEO -- who are all older guys -- I can't think of a one who is high profile and fun or inspiring or relevant to parents with scouts my general age. I don't think girls are really the issue here in the way that you think they are.

I wouldn't draw too tight a relationship between some of those trends because over the past 25 years there have been a lot of other things at play including a more universal disenchantment with scouting. A portion of my family is in Scouts Canada, in some cases in both Scouts Canada and BSA, and when talking to them, the view is more nuanced. Scouts Canada has been impacted by the Francophone and anti Commonwealth movement in some provinces that eschews all things British. There is an indigenous movement, much higher profile than here, that eschews all things Colonial. And Canadians in general have been distancing themselves in public life from anything connected to religious institutions. It's been kind of a triple whammy for scouting, which in Canada is seen to be connected to all three.

I think it's more about the age/timing of when people are looking to move their kids as well as the fact that scouting accomplishments apart from Eagle are almost meaningless to people outside scouting. If you write on your child's application to a private middle school that they just achieved Arrow of Light, the highest rank in cub scouts, it sounds good and shows completion. Six months later trying to explain where Tenderfoot or Second Class falls in scouting or what it means is not particularly as easy or clear cut. Of course there are plenty of people who push their kids to Eagle at 13 so they can put it on a competitive private high school application.

You are joking but in reality parents will list it as a credential on applications to private schools. There aren't a lot of comparable accomplishments in that age group for parents who are looking to get into competitive middle schools.

Like the weather, that varies according to where you live.

Where does end of school year have a set date? We used to get out as late as June 28. Some private schools got out later or earlier. Our Council used to have a Webelos Woods camp out for cross overs in July after everyone was out. For kids who are taking make up courses, the end of the school year is over the summer. Unless that's some rule I've missed, I think it's probably any date before Labor Day.

Exactly. There is controversy surrounding who is a federally recognized tribe vs. who is not; there are multiple advocacy or heritage associations for the same parent tribe; there are disagreements between tribal groups; there is disagreement over who is local vs. who is not, etc.

Every single state east of the Mississippi has either federally or state recognized tribes or unrecognized but active heritage tribal associations. They are pretty easy to find. That's one of the complaints of the indigenous community. People seem blind to the fact that they are all still right here, all over the place, just as other groups are. If you want to start learning about your local tribal groups, just google Indian Tribal groups in XXX state and you'll find them. Most states have tribal relations, affairs, or resource departments or agencies.

You are referring to the parents leaving the pack meeting? That's not rumor, that happened to me in my unit when I was the Committee Chair and one of my Webelos co-leaders was the one who arranged the visit. She had done the same thing a few years prior for her older son. She was shocked. We all were -- we'd seen it before, didn't really think much about it. Myself and the Cubmaster were the ones who had to smooth it over with the district. It's also not the only incident I'm aware of.