CommishJulian

Update: The Council just North of us always had great camps that my son really enjoyed. After attending two of them, I emailed their Scout Executive and we began a pen-pal thing. This week I asked if I could help with anything, and he connected me to a NYLT camp that really needed some help. I drove up, worked hard, and slept like a brick last night. -I'm helping them for two more days. I've concluded that you can't fix bad Councils. They're the Adult Scouts of America. -There's no way to even slow down their destruction. For me to achieve happiness, I defected. Not ideal, doesn't help the youth in my area one bit, but there comes a time when we, the adults, can say that we tried our best (and likely failed). I'm now happy as an adult volunteer, which is far better than being bitter and screaming at the wind. God bless all of you my brothers and sisters, for your support and comradery carried me through some dark times.

Again, I would pay money to be part of that environment for a year. Right here, I'm trying to practice democracy in Moscow.

I tried my best. I took the best stuff from others and passed it along. I loved my job. Kids happy, parents beaming, God is in his Heaven and all is well with the World. After thinking about it. If I could, I would pay the Council up to $1,000 a year if I could just help Packs go. Not to be someone important, just to be available to help deer-in-headlights parents get back on their feet. Ya, I'd pay a grand to be part of the solution. -The wife would be pissed as hell though. She hates all of it.

When I said "wholesome classic Cub Scout experience", I meant make it about the kids, and not power-tripping old farts. elitts All good ideas. Thanks for taking the time to share all that with us and all who find it via Google search. You're gonna do a lot of good with that.

I love this site because everybody has their own challenges, successes, issues, etc. What's killing my area, doesn't exist 10 miles North of me. I think it is very good that everybody who posts here has their own influencers acting on their District / Council. My burning question still is: If we gave elementary school families a wholesome classic Cub Scout experience, would they keep attending? Said another way, have kids changed so much in only 10 years that they don't want "fun with a purpose" any more? I can't believe that an iPad took away so much desire to camp, hike, and run around.

So sorry man. Same here. I feel your pain. Maybe you can answer something for me? I believe in my area, rich angry white people cause the environment to turn toxic and that drove away families. I believe that cub scouting done right, even by noob parents attracts and keeps families coming. I don't know if the decline of Scouting is just a sign of the times. I'd value anybody's opinions on this.

Re 1: They once had them, but they hated it when outsiders came, so the meeting disappeared. Re 2: None. All powers that be are wealthy locals. Re 3: None. Last time I saw minutes, all were has-beens, and appointees.

All good posts. Thank you for this site. I re-read my post above, and thought I nailed it rather well. What broke my heart is that I have a Masters in Commissioner Service, 3 PWD tracks, 92" Delta band saw, balloon launcher, space derby rig, sewing machine (with embroidery function), and so much more all ready to go... and I can't help any parents in my district or council because I won't ever support the ruling adults version of scouting. -I know I need to get on with my life, but I can't. The logic part on my brain knows it is time to go, but the kid inside refuses to budge. I've got issues. I think I desperately want to have one last event where I can be part of an event where things go the way they're supposed to: kids get to act their age, and everybody gets to go home happy.

People (you, me, parents, just about everybody on this site) still want the BSA org to go back to what it once was. I concluded that ain't gonna happen, maybe a year ago. Not trying to be my usual negative self here, just going to share what I've done to keep moving forward. I'm still the Cub Scout enthusiast, but now I'm a Unit Commissioner for anybody who wants me. I've helped a group of students in a homeschooling pod two doors down, gave my neighbor's kids wood to assemble a toolbox, lent out my PWD tracks several times, along with my balloon launcher. I'm also making how-to videos so even a noob parent can try to do these same activities with their children at home. Our Council is a private rich angry white club. The Council just North of us is the opposite. I can't control the appointed leadership, but I can chose what I can do with my remaining time here on this planet. Any youth with nice parents are Cub Scouts in my book. Helping them gives me the same satisfaction as before, just without the power tripping and hate. My logic is that since I learned from volunteers, I don't owe the BSA any royalties. Actually I paid a small fortune for a cluster of a Woodbadge event. My local Council is desperate for money, but it's customer satisfaction is nearing zero. And that is not my problem. So did I gave up? Or did I adapt? I flip flop between those two questions all the time. But really, I'm actually a lot happier being on the outside. No more hypocrisy, anger, made up rules that vary from person to person. I'm just an old guy that learned a lot and is willing to share and empower parents and kids. I feel like I'm doing God's work, just without the stress. I guess I'm giving any of you readers permission to keep helping kids even if your 'District and Council Are Doomed.'

While I seem to be super negative all the time, let me say that I truly appreciate this site and all your inputs. This is the only truly free forum about Scouting I've ever seen. Thank you for that. All the best friends. Julian

In a year or two, scouting may be a thing of the past. For me, I've given up and adapted. I bring all my old Cub Scout equipment to pods of regular kids doing group home-schooling. Kids are kids, weather they're in Scouting or not. I get to bring magic into their lives (one of three PWD tracks, space derby rig, balloon launcher, activities, etc), and I'll never have to deal with another belligerent "I was an EAGLE SCOUT!" dad ever again. -Their jedi mind tricks don't work any more. Ya I copped out, but now that I don't ever have to deal with a little monster ever again, there's very little to entice me back into the good-ole-boy club. My point is: Why would I ever go back to a place where a kid was able to bully another because pops was someone important in the BSA? And THAT is why kids are not in scouting like before. -In my opinion.

Noble of you. Some thoughts of my own, if you don't mind. 1) In society, even in modern more-secular society, we sometimes call a few people "angels" or "saints" due to their exceptional grace and kindness. That said, the universe needs to balance itself by building humans void of those qualities. Those unholy spawn tend to end up being the Den Leader's brat, or the son of a large donor to the Council. 2) My mother was a child psychologist. She literally went where angels feared to tread, and saved many children from a life of darkness and limited expectations. Even knowing that, some youth are bad news, no mater what God, Scouts, or even behavioral psychology has to say about it. The system needs to boot out these (unappreciative) youth for the sake of the other families (for the sake of program income, fundraising, and overall community goodwill). The former values of Scouting were once earned, now they are frequently bought. Resurrect a SM from the 1950's and have him evaluate today's stock, and I bet he'd kick half them out of the Pack/Troop within an hour. @RookieMom Thanks for having the courage and faith to post your frustrations here. Latin, I'm not dissing you here, I appreciate your dedication. I'm venting some of my own frustrations at the expense of your post. My closing point is that with so little families still left in scouting, little monsters need to be shown the door. On my business card I put "Practicing Kindness in Scouting." Everyone on this site should back RookieMom and say that the two bad apples need to go so the good ones don't end up leaving. In our case we went to another town's pack to finish Tiger; of the 7 boys that stayed, 6 left Cub Scouts before reaching WEBELOS. The only youth that bridged from the Pack 5 years later was the monster. 1 out of 16 is a true failure of Commissioner Service.

Eagle. I never thought in a million years I would have ever heard that said from a BSA Pro, current or former. I commend you for having the courage to lay it out here for all of us. I also commend the exceptional environment Scouter.com gives us in order to share, support and learn from each other's experiences in BSA's many micro climates and pockets of alternate realities. David CO, I do agree with you about executives only really caring about their livelihoods as an employee of Scouts BSA. Luckily, I been able to work with a handful of exceptional (now laid off) Scout Professionals who never got valued for what they kept bringing into the Districts and Council. With all that, I'll always have faith in Scouting; it's something far more. As Nick Fury said, ""Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.""

Well said.

Multiple letters to CEO, Area who sent it to Regional, a certified 14 page report to Irving TX. Three responses by my attorney to shut down lies that came from the district. Whistle Blower policy not applicaple to volunteers. No retaliation prevention policy in play. The Council Commissioner knows and he's trying to help from his side. "Your actions sound as if they are possibly illegal." What the heck? Nothing I've done is illegal or outside of Scouts BSA guidelines. They have. I have submitted emails, screen shots, letters. "Or did you just decide to go your own way?" My way, as you out it, is how things used to be here back in the late 1990s. Back then, people helped each other freely. There was no boundaries, no pecking order. Back then a volunteer was wanted, no matter what their experience was, or how big their ego was. Good scouters were cherished, period. "First, that may have been the way it was done the first 80 years, but it is not how it is now." You are so right CynicalScouter. That's why it is dying. ... I've just now joined the group that feels is needs to die to make room for a better representation of Scouting values, moral, and ideals.

I already did. Your right. But they did. So the question I have to ask now is this? People with money buy power and use it for their own personal emotional enjoyment, all at the cost of average youth. This is nothing new in the history of mankind. So, in a light heated way here, can you articulate why my saying so is bad. The civil rights movement is all about calling thing like they are, not by how we want to see them. BTW I am a middle aged white guy, who's technically upper middle class. If I can't call it, who else can?

I realized about 6 years ago that district functionally is a product of volunteer effort. So when a small, and shrinking, group of angry white folks ignore the units in the district, expect their for their own, there is plenty of opportunity to help packs go. So yes CS, I fully know the legals about district and council relationships. What I found is that kindness, and supportive aspects of scouting can, in theory, be provided by a group of caring, currently youth protection trained, adults, outside of the district. The nut I haven't been able to crack is the look of legitimacy. The haters in charge look legitimate, but they violate Scouts BSA policy all the time. I as a lone, caring Cub Scout supporter, can easily be branded a bad guy by them and in turn, no Pack will ask me for any help. Next year the Pack folds, and the district is 15% smaller. Said another way, support can be given outside the district's control authority because for the first 80 years of the BSA, that's how people helped each other. I want to help new parents, just not having to kiss the rump of an old person whom I don't agree with to in order to do that. That's what got me into so much trouble.. I didn't want to abide by rules made up my the party in power that go against printed BSA guidelines. Flagrantly in violation of YPT, District training, common sense, Scout Oath and Law. And when you go bringing that up to a Council facing a second bankruptcy in 4 years, they don't want to hear it.

It happened to us a few years back. My birth council was dog droppings, and the other was Swiss watch good. -They were funded by Boeing who left for TX and they had no revenue all of a sudden. Long story short, our messed up council had more people (most of them were messed up) and within 3 years the, crap folks drove all the excellent people out. But kept their camps, which they sold, and now laid-off everyone else.... At times I think my dog can do a better job running a council. Sorry, I digress. There are great councils, but National dictates their terms to every one and everything, so eventually everything will forced to merge.

At least in your Council they ask if someone wants to be chairman. In our communistic horror show, it's only through private appointment, and only to wealthy POS. My efforts to build a private district, is having little success. With no units being supported, there's no idea who's still participating, much less how to reach them and offer them any help.

So, in 2016 our Council merged with another to save money. That Council sold Campmasters, and the quality was worlds better. Trail's End tasted stale. The other council also had better organization, and discipline. Long story short is that BSA popcorn is a very hot topic, and two years later, went back to Trail's End, which my family won't eat (they love Kirkland movie popcorn). I hoped someone from this decade had experience with the two, and if they could agree with my opinions on taste, or not. Bottom line is that people won't buy Trail"s End. I have to sell to strangers outside a storefront. I've tried to buy directly from Campmasters, but never get a reply back. Any thoughts are appreciated.

That's so harsh, but there's so much truth to it. I'm sad a hell, but I have to agree with you David CO. -I'm kinda positioning myself to be in that space when the walls come tumbling down. Now that I'm thinking about it, it would be the same about of work as I'm doing now, just without the lies and slander. And the stress. And the kids would have as good of a time because they don't know or care about any district/council structure.

I like to give my cubs the chance to make any sized PWD car they want. You're only 7 once my friend. *it's actually the length of the blade, so maybe an 8" depth. -but don't tell the kids that 😉

Maybe this thread has gotten off topic and I feel I'm partially to blame. Retaliation is a very important topic and may need to be expanded on even more if visitors have their own questions or experiences to share. However, here's some feelings to some earlier comments Thank you for the kind words. -Those never get old when you're a volunteer. Pay-To-Rule (where wealthy Type A, or Karens, or their employers, make donations to a council and buy top leadership positions) sucks. Royally. I've always invited the District and Council to join my events and advertise camps or sell some services. They've ALWAYS declined. I've had my Woodbadge cert & Basic UC training (and other training they had control of) withheld by District and Council folks so I got dinged for not being "trained". I've had my teeth kicked in 3 times by District volunteers backed by Council employees: slander followed by official people voicing concerned that I'm involved in scouting. (My heart's been broken maybe a dozen times as well) The three slanderings ended when my attorney got involved and drafted a response. All their stories evaporated, instantly. "We never said that." The biggest problem came when I took Commissioner Bachelor of Science continuing ed in another Council, and figured out that a prominent District level volunteer had circumvented BSA membership validation safeguards. After finding evidence, and bringing it to the Council President and Council Commissioner, I lost my Packs, and the violator got promoted to District Chairman. My Council is like an iceberg, floating in the middle of the ocean. While the angry eskimo chiefs fight for supremacy, the lowly villagers fall off the shrinking ice, and drown, one by one. -All I've done here is invest in boats. BUT! I can't save any units because I'm the bad guy. The nut I'm trying to crack here is how to be relevant when the local BSA authority has deemed you to not be legitimate. I haven't broken a single BSA guideline, while those who keep screwing with me all have violated BSA guidelines, and I've got documentation. But THEY have silver beavers, and I'm just a lowly cub scout zealot without any packs. (I do help parents all the time, I just have to keep a low profile when I do it. I feel like I'm in East Germany.) OH! and what kills me is the "promise" new employees from National make when they first arrive, saying they'll clean up the place. They're so full of it crap they smell funny. Within 6 months, they're doing exact stupid stuff the doofus they've replaced did before them. Nothing changes, only membership has shrunk even more and another camp's been sold. There is a way to brake the cycle, I just haven't figured it out yet. Any help here would be appreciated.

That is possibly the nicest thing a fellow scouter has ever said to me. Forgive me if I print that and hang it on my wall. The DIY district thing is holding steady. I'm in the midst of sending out emails to the last known Packs and asking them if they need some positive energy. I've got one totally new interactive/virtual/distance/Zoom activity figured out. If I can some up with three more I can host my very own carnival. And host it for FREE. I am almost done working out the bugs of a virtual, open invitation, pinewood derby event. Basically, if you've ever made a car, we can re-race it, again, for FREE. The real District folks say I am bad for scouting (mainly because of my FREE fetish), but man do parents and their kids seem to love me. Since I'm being totally honest here, I'll add that I am a recovering addict... I have a 1999 Delta 92" band saw made in the USA. With it, I can cut out a PWD car in under 60 seconds with the new blade! I have two sewing machines; one does embroidery for personalizing bags and gifts, while the other is an old school Singer that will sew a patch onto any shirt or jacket. I have 3 PWD tracks; 2, 3 and 4 lane. Laptop with PWD software installed and an old school serial port (none of that wonky USB to serial junk). My custom space derby rig adjusts to fit any two adjacent posts. A rain-gutter regatta rig. Digital projector, 40" flat panel display and a portable bridge for Arrow of Light presentations. ... Okay maybe I'm not "recovering" after all, but what a fun addiction to have right? Oh and a monster Ford 4x4 to carry it all!