Buggie

I should have gone back and checked to see if anything really did post or not. And looks like it did post, twice in the same message. Funny that. So below is the same sort of response from the other day. Bah. I tried replying to this on the weekend, but it didn't take. I don't think there was anything to this, however I can't read minds. What it sounded like to me was that the scouter in charge hadn't anticipated the girl Webelos unit's situations and went into lock down paralysis mode not knowing how things should be done and not wanting to get in trouble for anything. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Without a whole lot of direction from national (your call on how much/little has been received, and I think LITTLE adequately describes it), the scouter probably erred on the over cautious side. And irritated those who felt that the girls should have been allowed to visit as they pleased.

I can't claim to read any ones mind in this, however I think it was more of newness unknown paralyze shutdown syndrome. They didn't think it through and then didn't know what to do. So do nothing. Of course this is hampered by not knowing what COs are going to form girl troops next year. I expect speed bumps along the way. Keep cool and navigate through. It's not a stop sign. More of a we need to plan better moment. I can't claim to read any ones mind in this, however I think it was more of newness unknown paralyze shutdown syndrome. They didn't think it through and then didn't know what to do. So do nothing. Of course this is hampered by not knowing what COs are going to form girl troops next year. I expect speed bumps along the way. Keep cool and navigate through. It's not a stop sign. More of a we need to plan better moment.

At our recent Webelos event, where the Webelos are embedded camp out with troops and then the troops host various events for them, we had one all girl unit. It wasn't a perfect run. There was some confusion in how things should be handled. At first one of the District level folks balked at the fact that the girl Webelos unit was set up inside the scout troop. They were required to move to a separate campsite. The whole thing is an unknown for folks, how do they handle it? It's not defined by national yet all the way. And hopefully we'll get some guidance on that. Further more, post event day, the Webelos are invited to visit other troop campsites and see what they are like. Deserts are typically a good draw. However the girl unit was not allowed to visit anyone because they were girls and those in charge didn't know how to handle that. I should state that the Girls Webelos unit had two deep leadership staffed by women, so hooray for that! But the actual event went off without a hitch. The Webelos all gathered and split up and walked around to different events and had a great time. None of them seemed to care about the whole gender novelty.

Maybe I should dig out my classic retro scout issued parachute pants. But in seriousness it is funny how they market stuff. You could almost see the scenario. Hey Bob, you'll never guess the mistake we made in ordering. .... I know! Lets put them out as classic socks!

Unfortunately, it's one of those situations that does pop up in troops. They do have the right to suspend the scout for a length of time. And even though the spirit of scouting says they should be working with the family and the scout on finding ways to mitigate the unwanted behavior, there's nothing out there that is going to make them willing or enthusiastic about it. Your concerns about how the troop's adults are going to continue to support your son are real and valid. The only thing you really can do is to wait out the suspension. However, you should even without your son's blessings, set up visits for the parent to go check out other troops. Try contacting the scout master of the troop you want to visit with first. Explain that you are looking for a troop home and some of the issues your son has. You might find adults out there that have better ability to assist your son's needs. Different troops do have different histories about dealing with common issues. For example, I know a few troops in my area that have experience in working with kids with Asperger Syndrome so when there's a scout with that need, these troops come highly recommended. I don't know if your son will benefit from having a parent there at all meetings or not. But the troop is not out of bounds for asking for that. It does signal that they are at the end of what they know how to do and are hoping that a parent's presence will mitigate poor behavior. As you can also tell, it doesn't seem that the adults in question here are doing much to address the bullying aspect. Another sign that exploring other troops is a good idea. I do recommend not signing up or changing to another troop until after the suspension period. And you can even state that to other troops you visit. It shows that as a parent, you're willing to support consequences for his actions. Yes, he will miss out on some fun things and possible advancement opportunities, but unless he's on a tight timeline that should be part of the consequences. Unless the other troops are closed to non-members of the religious organization, it should not matter. I understand very well the scout's reluctance in change. My son had the same issues there. It's the change that is the problem and they take time to acclimate to it. I hope for all the best for your son and you.

Learning from experienced scouters can be interesting especially if they've been around for awhile. Like all you fellow geezers here. But you have to take care with what they are teaching. For example, my SM was drafted to assist with the SM training course for those who hadn't taken it online. A good endeavor to be sure. He came to me the next day having learned things himself. Things he thought were true turned out not to be. Things he didn't know about at all. It was eye opening for him. One of the problems with the experienced scouters is what they believe is in the program/policy/regulations/etc sometimes isn't. They've accepted it as 'true' based upon what someone in authority or the group told them. Or from making a simple mistake and not realizing it. Or not keeping up with the changes in BSA policy. I mean, look at the issues we see on this forum here with troops claiming processes and policies that only exist in their own minds. How often do you read in these forums, "show me where it is written"? I for one though, relish any opportunity to enhance my woodcraft or outdoor skills from those who've been around the campsite a few times. I know that if I don't use my skills, I can lose them. So now and then I practice things at a meeting or camp. I don't hide what I'm doing too. And that has occasionally brought a scout over to see what it is that I'm doing. Sometimes they want to try it too. Best times are if they can show me something new! They pick up stuff from all over the place too.

I didn't get all the way through it because one of the things that struck me was the uniform requirements. BORs can't make such a requirement above what BSA requires. A scout shows up to the best of their ability. Some scouts can't afford the full uniform. We had a scout lose everything in a fire. While he did get a shirt provided as a gift that was the best he could do. And i know in my case we couldn't keep my son in anything long as kept growing out of everything. A shirt was the best we could do.

Westley: If only we had a wheelbarrow, that would be something for our OA lodge activities... Inigo: Where did we put that wheelbarrow the scout had? Fezzik: Over the scout I think. Westley: Well why didn't you list that among our assets in the first place? Oh, what I wouldn't give for a black cloak. Inigo: There, we cannot help you. Fezzik: [pulls out a black cloak] Will this do? Inigo: Where did you get that? Fezzik: At the troop's scout closet. It fit so nice, they said I could keep it. Fezzik: Welcome to the OA! There will be no survivors!

We had a camp out this weekend. I'm still fairly new to this troop and I did scope it out early before signing up, but I'm still very happy when I see them do things in ways I think are right. First of all, the scout's set their own schedule. It included some instruction time on things the new-boys and some of the other scouts needed practice upon. They chose it. It was fun to watch from the adult's sitting area. (flag ceremony stuff) Secondly they did everything on their own with very minimal adult interaction. Mostly safety things like "How many scouts are supposed to be in the axe yard?" and a few things like "Did you guys take our tomatoes?" (yes, they did, but they thought the tomatoes were theirs because they forgot where they put theirs.) And thirdly it included one of my favorite things. Scouts playing and doing fun junk. Unstructured time where they played around. Not quite sure what they were doing, but they were having fun with something. We also were able to use the area pool since we had a BSA lifeguard. Fun for the scouts and the adults. And it highlighted a strong need for some adults and scouts to get better at throwing a football. Also that we adults probably should pay attention to the need for sunscreen. p.s. we also worked on our tick collecting skills. Some won more than others. The camp's mower was broken, so the grass was rather tall in the camp site.

Me too. Now I get it to a degree. Us adults are older. Not as pliable as them young-uns... But still at times I think we go overboard with creature comforts and gadgets. If you carry more than four scouts or require your own truck to haul all your personal stuff, perhaps you should re-think it. My big thing is cellophones. I think it is reasonable for all the adults to have them on a camp out and for very good reasons below. However except for the reasons listed below, ours should be off unless there's a need that you wouldn't frown at a scout for. Main point of contact (maybe two adults, but no more than that) Your job/life requires it (not talking about your need to go check the latest in sports) Health (talking need for an app on the smart phone, though I don't personally know of any need like this someone else might have one. If not now, then soon you'll see something like it. "Scans show that your insulin is low.") Search and Rescue / Emergency (Personal note: I had a scout stop taking his medication for a few days and after blowing up, ran off with a knife he was brandishing at everyone and we were very concerned. It was adult's night at summer camp and I got back a few minutes after he ran off. I had no phone. A phone would have drastically improved our group response. All worked out well.) Weather Checks ("Gee, is that thunder storm coming our way?" "Is that ice storm coming in earlier than expected?") Check in (like the scouts are on a very long trip via foot/canoe/whatever and you should send in a text that you've hit certain points in the journey) Troop Transport ("Hey, we're stopping at the next gas station." or "We've got a flat tire.")

I'm in the OKC area. And to make the sob story even sadder, my marine battery I use for the CPAP died at summer camp this year as well. I had it since 2010, so I'm happy it lasted as long as it did, but I didn't use it as often as I would have liked to since I didn't get to go camping much. Job limited me to pretty much only summer camps. Also very handy to have in case of power failures at home. Those pesky T-Storms et al. So that's another thing I'm in the market for. My plan is to take stock of all that I need and prioritize it. There are things I'm getting starter items for, where it might not be the exact item I want, but it will do for now until I can afford the one I really want. A new hammock is definitely on the list. As well as a whole truck load of other things. LOL

I hear badge magic is fantastic for that....

Yah, I have a CPAP so I tend not to sleep in hammocks outside of a nap. The hose and apparatus don't work so well with it. The fun thing is that my hammock broke at summer camp this year. I just got comfortable and suddenly I was on the ground. The rope coming out of the hammock and through the carabiner connecting to the straps on the tree went *pop*! I joke that the two other adults in camp woke up long enough to ask if I was okay. Actually I was pretty lucky. I had a camp pillow that cushioned my head in the fall. Also I always try to clear the ground beneath me. Lastly, because I was relaxed and hit the ground square, the contact was spread out and easy to deal with. Needless to say (but I'll say anyway) I did not get my nap. p.s. Hooray for Trappers!

Mostly camping in Oklahoma. With one trip a year expected to Kansas. The weather varies after October. Either you've got sunny skies and 70 degree weather or you go down the temperature range to highs in the 20's generally. Typically you don't see Okie kids camping below 20 for highs. We deal with heat, not the cold! Most of the scouts aren't well outfitted for below freezing weather, so there's a limit that various troops choose on when to go camping or not. But yah, my situation is that I need to gear up for winter camping and wanted to know what sorts of things people would recommend to look into (brands or items). I'm planning on getting the standard winter gear stuff, but if someone had something that they thought was the best thing ever, I'd like to know. I might not be able to afford it this year, but I'll be planning on getting it eventually. So thanks to everyone who has responded!

It's the Spanish Inquisition patch. I never expected to see that.

For me, chigger protection is always appreciated along with your standard bug spray of choice. Every year I think, I need to remember to get the chigger powder for next year and I always forget it and wish I hadn't. A nice wide brim hat. A cooling towel. A friend of mine recommended one of those cooling beanies that motorcyclists use under their helmets. Some folks swear about those zero g recliners that can tilt back. To me I can't relax in those. I feel like I'm about to fall backwards. I like using a Sansbug for my mosquito netting. It's my luxury item. If I'm bringing one. I also get by with just a sheet and no netting. I like a good book that I wouldn't care if it got damaged and I also like to bring something to pass the time with other adults. My favorite game to play is Farkle, which you can find the rules for on line. Takes five dice, a surface to play upon, and a paper/pencil to keep score with. Fun to just pass time with other scouters that way and doesn't take any skill. Number one thing is, have fun. Do something service wise to help out here and there, but enjoy every moment you can possibly grab.

I'm privy to a few schools in my area and how they handle it in regards to hotels etc. They are assigned to share a hotel room together if they are in the same trans-gendered classification (FTM or MTF). If there is only one, they receive their own room. I've come across a few transgender scouts at summer camp, but I don't know how they handled tent assignments as it wasn't in my unit.

Conflict of interest happens too. And then there's the situation where people think that something is going on, even when it doesn't. Or even though they are taking a minor role, because of their District role they carry more authority causing more folks to follow along than would otherwise. Even if they aren't trying to do that at all, you get the problem because it isn't them pushing their position, it's someone doing it for them. So yah, it can get ugly even with the best of folks and intentions. It really takes a set "just do this job and nothing else" type of mindset. A complete boxing of them doing something that doesn't push the unit in any direction other than getting something done for the unit.

I've seen it done. It required scouters to devote their time on whatever day it was that was needed, regardless of holidays/weekends/etc. It is a huge undertaking and if adults aren't on board or the scout doesn't follow through, it's blown. Still possible, but dangerous. Make sure the scout has the support they need all the way through. Communicate often and early. Scouters tend to bend over backwards to help when they see a scout doing their best, but it only takes one to upset that apple cart and destroy everything. Best to have as much wiggle room as possible.

Never be afraid to shop around. Also never be afraid to and try your best at keeping your eyes open at self examination. Sometimes it's the unit. Units are good fits for some folks and bad fits for others. Sometimes it's us. We're too "us" and we need to change what we're doing. But again, it never hurts to see what other units are around. And even though I hate the thought of a kid leaving scouts, sometimes you need a break. I would rather someone take a year off then get frustrated to the point where they don't ever want to be a part of it again. People try to give the impression that you have to be in it from Lion to Eagle, but really you need to do what is best for you. Malraux has a good post too.

These replies above are great. One of the things I've discovered as a parent and I definitely see it necessary as a scouter is that you've got to learn how to advocate for the scout(s). The parents, the SM, the ASM, the CC, etc. Everyone involved had best be very familiar with the current guild to advancement etc. Especially for Eagle boards. At camp two SMs I know give the SM training for those interested. The next day one of them came and asked if I knew the answer to something that he was surprised about. He was shocked that I knew the answer that he had just learned. It's because it had been a long while since he had taken the training and I had done it this year and had been reading too. So what he used to know either has changed or got replaced with false information. You listen to other people tell you things and then you believe them because how could they be wrong? Often scouters get stuck in either old information or have gotten to where they think they know the answer, been told the wrong answer, or have dreamed up an answer. You've got to know your rights. Or more specific, the scout's rights according to the BSA. And don't be afraid to ask for an explanation or to take it to the next level. Eventually the appeals go on up to national if you get that far. They are going to side with the guide to advancement. They aren't going to go with somebody's made up expectation.

And if the witch is heavier than a duck, which means they sink in water and are thus a witch. Turning scouts into newts. (they get better) Course I'm also thinking of plague cart races. Yes I know. Bad Buggie. Bad boy. Go to the corner. Sorry I didn't really have anything helpful to add.

I worry for things like this. BORs should be to assess how the scout is doing in the program and how the troop is doing to address the scout's needs. It isn't a retest or examination of the items the scout has fulfilled for the rank. You can see how well the scout has been taught, but you can't deny them because they no longer remember how to tie a square knot for example. (you can then go back to the SM and say, hey, we need to beef up the square knot knowledge. we're seeing scouts aren't remembering it.) For the POR, it isn't an assessment of how well the scout did in his duty, but that he did so. The SM should be the one addressing how well a scout is doing through various moments in the scout's service in that POR. It should NEVER be an ambush where someone comes in and says, "Well, you haven't been doing enough these last six months." I certainly would question any district rep coming in who doesn't have a good grasp of what the scout has done for the troop. They didn't see the scout for those six months. The District Rep might have observed them in the OA in this case, but that's not monitoring the scout as far as the unit is concerned. And if that District Rep really has an issue, it needs to be delivered to the SM and not to ambush a scout in their BOR.

For the last decade I've been on the parent side of scouting. My job required too much of my weekend time for me to do much in the way of camping and my son really enjoyed having a place away from parents, something I honored unless there was a need for extra adults (which seemed to only hit in warmer months). But things change and this year I was finally able to volunteer and leave the "just a parent" role behind. As such, I'm going to be camping through the winter season for a change and I need to gear up. My son ages out this year, so some of his gear is going to be loaned to me until I can get my own. However some of his gear reached end of life or is fine for him, but not for my older body. Looking at the forum, most posts about gear I'm interested in are at least 3 yrs old or a lot older for gear I'm interested in. Time changes what's available, so I figured it would be good to ask for recommendations on what's out there these days. I'm from Oklahoma (and I share the council with a few other members here), so our winters vary in severity. Summer is your typical overly hot situation, but I can gear up for that next spring. So what's a good recommendation for tents/brands or ones to stay away from? I'm interested in 2p or 3p models 4 or 3 season. I can always tarp up a 3 season one to make it work for now. What sort of sleep system do you recommend? I definitely need to upgrade the pad. I'm not afraid to devise a good homemade one, like using reflecting blankets in combinations with something else. And lastly, I need to gear up with the base/mid layers. I've reviewed some sites that have their personal recommendations, but having more info from this forum is good too. Oh, I should note that I'm planning on attending Trappers Rendezvous in Kansas in January. Which either means highs in the 70's lows in the 50's or "why is the coffee a block of ice?" Thanks!

I've posted a few memories in other topics, but a relatively recent one makes me laugh a lot. We had a bad situation where the SPL had to resign for medical reasons and the ASPL had stopped coming. So an Eagle scout was tapped to help out in the interim until the elections could be held. The Eagle scout really didn't want the job, but he did it because there was a need. A scout put his name in for SPL and won the election. He was happy. We all felt like it would be a great thing for the scout. Then the SM said, "Why don't you go ahead and assume the role and close out the meeting." The new SPL went bug-eyed. It hit him that he really was in charge.