FireStone

I don't think that is entirely compatible with the modern BSA program. When BP said that, scouting had a handful of badges, all of which were hands-on-learning/doing based, most in the outdoors. Not a lot of organic opportunities in the outdoors to earn Citizenship badges and rank reqs, Family Life, Personal Management, service projects, etc. For better or worse, the program has evolved into something where advancement opportunities sometimes have to be created, either by the unit, patrol, or by the scouts individually.

I think there is supposed to be a balance, to mix the fun/adventure with the advancement program. The kids show up for both. They want adventure but they also want that next rank badge, and recognizing achievement is one of the key ingredients of the scouting method. But how to strike that balance, what the right ratio is, I have no idea and I applaud anyone who can figure it out. Likewise with the AOL part of this discussion, striking a similar balance between getting AOLs prepared to join a troop, giving them enough knowledge and skill to confidently enter Troop life but not so much that they are over-prepared and then bored for the first year, I'm struggling with that very idea myself right now.

Good to see another uniform with blue epaulets and a lodge flap. Not a common sight around here. 😄

I think that might work but also agree that the SM response might be problematic. If the belief is that OA takes scouts away from the troop, then a scout being in OA, by whatever means they happen to be inducted, would still be a problem with the SM. It also won't help if the SM feels that a scout went around them to get what they wanted. That said, IF this happened in such a way, it could serve as an example of how scouts can serve in OA and also remain fully active in the troop. If the SM could be persuaded to see this as a bit of an experiment, maybe that could open the door for expanded involvement in OA for the troop. And all of that said, frankly, I think it's a shame that anyone would deprive their unit of involvement in OA, a fully recognized and official part of the BSA program regardless of how anyone personally feels about it. If all else fails, I would probably have to encourage any scout in such a situation to strongly consider option #3 discussed above (look for a new troop).

That's just lazy. Chimneys are easy to start with some newspaper, kindling, etc. They're basically designed for exactly that, starting a small fire underneath and letting that burn upwards until some coals are ignited. And it's way more in line with scout-style fire starting to build a small kindling fire under the chimney anyway. I don't know why anyone would use fluid in a scout setting.

I didn't like it even as a kid. And it has never been all that practical for camping. Especially the Cub uniforms with the Webelos colors hanging off the sleeve, the pins, etc. I hear local leaders refer to it as a field uniform, but that's a hard argument to make anymore when there is much more practical field attire for camping, hiking, etc. More light-weight, breathable, comfortable stuff that anyone would prefer to wear. I think the BSA has tried to evolve the shirt into more of a field-style shirt. Maybe we're just a few more revisions away from something the kids will actually like. The uniform has its place and purpose, and I wear it (and ask my scouts to do the same) where required. But as a general rule, I take the summer camp approach: Running around all day, dress comfortably. For less active events, flags, dinner, etc., the uniform should be worn.

I agree with this. I struggle with this in a variety of ways in my Pack. I think leaders and parents have good intentions trying to create the most robust cub program possible, with tons of activities, meetings, trips, etc. But it's exhausting. Five years of that and I can see how some parents probably just don't care anymore if their scout crosses over to a troop. They might even secretly hope they will ask to quit. We butt head with parents who want the entire day in camp to be scheduled. I want time for the kids to go play and the adults to sit and drink coffee. Interestingly enough the parents who want to add more to the program and the ones who contribute the least. So they want a busier day for their kid at the expense of all of the other leaders and parents who have to make it happen. Then we see some of the most active families burned out by crossover and they don't join a troop.

This is way after the fact but for future reference: The easiest Pack meeting we do each year is a Paper Airplane Derby. Bring a stack of printer paper, have the dens make planes and compete for distance, style, highest flyer, stunt planes, etc.

Normally I'm of the opinion that scouts could do summer camp but otherwise get a break from scouting in the summer. The scouting trail can be long, no need to burn everyone out early. Take a couple of months off. However I'm making an exception this year because I'm DL for a Webelos den and covid set us back a bit on advancement and getting ready to cross over to a troop next year, so we'll be keeping things going this summer. A more recent thought I've had, actually has been to ease off den meetings in May and June because my town is big on baseball and it's really difficult to get good attendance at scout meetings/activities. I'd rather slow things down in May and June and then pick back up in July. Not sure I'll ever actually do that, just a thought I've had recently.

Although it's stated in the history of this thread, I think it is worth repeating: The BSA does not explicitly ban fixed-blade knives or set limitations on blade length. On the issue of carrying a knife, fixed-blade or otherwise, that can vary depending on local jurisdictions, COs, Troop rules, etc. With the one exception being that I believe Cub Scouts are limited to use and carry of pocket knives only, at least as it is implied in Whittling Chip.

They make a fair point about the name, they could change the name but still reference BP in their history and founding principles, which I hope they will do much like the BSA does. Although i kind of doubt that will actually happen. Weird that they kept the fleur-de-lis logo, which BP was responsible for in scouting. If they are so anti-BP now, the logo should have changed, too. The organization kind of seems to always be in a bit of an identity crisis. They were a mostly adult organization for a while, then became a more inclusive youth alternative to the BSA, a feature that they still cling to today even though it's not really much of a distinguishing factor anymore. I don't think their name was ever the problem. They want to be a BSA alternative but they don't focus on what makes them a compelling alternative today, which would be their more traditional back-to-basics scouting program. They call themselves "scouting for all", but they don't offer a much more inclusive program than anyone else, except on the subject of a faith requirement. The name change doesn't improve things for them, in my opinion. They say the name has something to do with their inclusiveness, but I don't get it. Doesn't sound like a youth-focused name, either.

Love the new shirts. I kind need a new one, not urgent but with these new options available I'll definitely go for one of these. But I'll never do the official pants. Can't stand them. I get similar green-color 5.11 pants.

Finally. 👍

These are covid-related changes, and they're temporary. The BSA hasn't removed any outdoor components of the program in the handbooks. I keep hearing this allegation that the BSA is cutting out the outdoorsy stuff or that units in the past did more stuff outdoors. If any of that is true, it's not because of anything the BSA is doing.

I can't speak for all, but in my Pack and Den, no, the scouts are not exposed to any gender bias. If other folks are passing along a "boys are bad" message to their scouts based on how they interpret YPT, I'm not sure why they choose to do that. Even if that is their interpretation, why they elect to then make that a visible message to scouts is beyond my understanding.

I'm still not following. How does that translate to "boys are bad" in any way that reaches scouts? Even if that is you're interpretation of the YPT rules (it's not my interpretation), that still should never influence scouts in any way. Those parts of the adult training regarding the gender ratio of adults at any activity aren't ever expressed to kids. How are boys "being told that men are bad" as David suggested? If boys in any unit are getting that kind of message, that's coming from the local adults, not the BSA.

Specifically where is this "boys are bad" thing being suggested by the BSA? Can you please reference anything that suggests this or could be interpreted that way?

I'm always up for some nostalgia, the box of scouting memorabilia on the shelf behind me of my days on the trail as a youth always takes me back just from thumbing through the patches and remembering where or how I earned them. But you lost me at the quoted part above. I fail to see how we've taken this hard turn, that scouting is somehow so different now. I had my Webelos den out for a little 4-mile walk in the woods a couple of weeks ago, along the way talking about the Outdoor Code (which to my surprise some of the scouts had already memorized perfectly) and some plans for working on adventure pins and a Nova award over the upcoming winter break. We're just finishing up Castaway, on the heels of one of my proudest moments as a DL where every scout in my den successfully started a flint and steel fire at our last den meeting. The kids don't even seem to care much about what pin they're getting, they just loved that they started a fire without a match or lighter. Scouting didn't take a hard turn anywhere. The handbook is still the handbook, it's full of ideas for adventures not unlike those of my past and yours, if we just follow it. The BSA isn't changing that. So what really changed? The only changes I see are to the membership policies, and those don't have any impact on what my den is doing. The trail they're on, it looks a whole lot like the trail I remember and sounds like the one mentioned above. We just had a Pack campfire (virtually) on Friday night, and we closed it out with some of those same lyrics from Scout Vespers. Again, I ask, what has really changed? This all feels very familiar and typical of scouting to me. If anything, I think the experience my den and pack is having is actually a richer and more rewarding experience than what I had.

I got that info from the Q&A section of the product page on the Scout Shop website. Someone asked "Who is the manufacturer of these hats?" and the reply was, "This hat is made by Stetson."

I know I'm a broken record with referring to the BPSA-US, but I truly believe they are the case study that proves that this is all possible. They have been doing exactly this, running a volunteer-led grassroots scouting program, getting some adults together to teach kids traditional scout skills, and doing it with some creativity in finding places to go and camps to use. It is entirely possible, maybe inevitable, certainly proven to be a workable model of scouting.

I've tried to maintain a similar opinion. We've got enough problems on our plates currently with just keeping even the basic parts of our programs going during a pandemic, all we can do face forward and keep going. And for me that means going through whatever comes of the BSA, regardless of whether it falls or not, and beyond into whatever form of scouting program we can maintain. We don't need much to get some kids together and go camping or take on a service project. We've seen groups like the BPSA-US do it with nothing more than a rough outline of a traditional scouting program and a desire to make it happen. Limited support from any kind of national HQ, no regional council, no paid professionals, just volunteers making it work. This thing will go on, with or without the BSA, with or without us. I believe enough in the scouting movement to trust that it will endure. It could live on as nothing more than a local group of kids who want to get together and go camping. But it will live on. That's enough for me to feel good about what we're doing, that no matter what happens at National, here on the ground we are and will continue to do scouting.

That's fine if it's not a summer hat, I'm really looking for a cooler weather hat anyway. I have a booney for the hot weather. Thanks all for the feedback. I have a planned trip to my local scout shop later in the week, going to see if they have one in stock.

Honestly right now, being a little overly-cautious is not a bad thing. Too many people are getting sick. We've got cases in my kids' school, other schools around town, a coworker has it, it's scary times. And believe me, I get the frustration. I want nothing more than to be doing in-person meetings with my Webelos but it's just not a good time for that. Have to make due the best we can. And that's what I'd tell scouts if I were in a troop. Virtual meetings aren't great, but make due. Get some meetings on the calendar, do something. Take the camera outside and do some outdoor virtual patrol activities. Knock out some of the non-outdoors stuff, work on a citizenship badge together, etc. And tell them to just remember that this is temporary, we will get through it. But we can't sit still just because virtual meetings are less than ideal. Challenge them to get creative. I understand the reluctance to do more of what some of them already do all day if their school is remote, but challenge them to harness all of this tech that they know better than us old guys/gals and find creative ways to work as a patrol. Or challenge them to go old-school. Work on Signs, Signals and Codes, and they have to text each other using only morse. 😄

The impact of COVID on membership really cannot be understated. Even in Packs like mine where we have tried to maintain an active outdoor program, we've taken a hit to membership (both previous and new) because of covid. Some parents even openly complained that we weren't delivering the outdoor group activities they had come to expect. We did the best we could but we had to dial things back a bit, and for some families that made scouting no longer living up to expectations. With new parents it was hard to sell the promise of adventure when we were hamstrung on how much outdoor adventure we could really do. While our new signups were less than half of what I'd expect in an average year. Really probably about 25% of what I'd ideally hope to see. How much of that added to the crisis or just acted on its own as a sort of crisis on top of another crisis, I'm not sure. But I think we'll be discussing the covid effect for a long time, while trying to recover from it and hopefully build back new membership next year.

Anyone have the BSA Brimmed Hat (formerly the Expedition Hat)? https://www.scoutshop.org/brimmed-hat-600016.html It's surprisingly cheap at $37.99 for a Stetson hat. Just wondering how the quality actually is, if it's durable, holds up over time, etc. Also, is it the moldable kind of felt/wool that you can shape with hot steam?