FireStone

My favorite items collected throughout my youth Scouting career are badges. I have plaques, certificates, various miscellaneous items, but the things that mean the most to me are the badges; rank, event patches, awards, mile swim, etc. Even the cub stuff, there isn't as much in that part of my collection, but the badges still mean the most. This sounds terrible, but the plaques are almost an annoyance. I appreciate being given them, where they came from, that people took the time to purchase or make them, etc. But they're these bulky items, and as big as some of them are, the little badges still hold the most meaning for me. My point is that I think the AoL badge will likely always mean the most to a scout. That's not to say "don't do a gift", just that the emphasis on a gift to mark the occasion might be overlooking the fact that the badge itself can (and should) be the most significant marker of that accomplishment and occasion for the scout receiving it.

I struggle to see how an ambassador to Scouting should be a perfect human being who makes zero mistakes, while we also use the Patrol Method and encourage kids to learn by making mistakes.

Why would there be a rule that disallowed family members from helping? The whole intent of the derby is that it is a collaborative project, it's not supposed to be done entirely by just a scout, nor is it supposed to be done by just a parent/guardian. I would think that a car build should have as many people involved as the scout wants. I'm struggling to figure out what reason someone would have for opposing a scout getting help from wherever they can. I've had scouts whose parents are just not handy, or in their first year just don't have the understanding of the event to confidently attempt to even build the car. So I help if I can. I had a scout and his mom come over my house, work in the wood shop, and build a car in about an hour that actually did pretty well. Mom was more hands-on with the build than I was, sometimes people just need some guidance. Is that cheating? Heck no. So what reason would someone have for being opposed to me helping that scout? Using that particular scout as an example, he ended up winning the bronze medal in our den, so I have to wonder if someone would be opposed to him getting help since without the help he wouldn't have even entered a car in the race and the 4th place scout would have been standing on the podium instead. But that's not what this is about, and I really hope that it isn't a bit of parents thinking, "The fewer cars on the track, the better chance my kid will win." But it could be.

Not even close to the same thing. And I can fairly confidently say that Bear would not destroy rock formations like that. There's no fair comparison between eating a frog and the recklessness showed in that goblin rock-toppling video.

I feel like there's an awesome solution in these two posts combined. A custom patch that says 2019-2021 on it so it's clear that it needs to be renewed.

So my pack charges $35 per adult, $20 per youth. It adds up quickly. For me, my wife, son, and daughter, it was $110. Not surprisingly, many families only went with the scout and one parent. It's a nice event at a catering hall, but it just seems excessive. And if the cost really is keeping some families away, it just shouldn't be like that. This might have to to go on my "we need to rethink this for next year" list. That list is growing quickly.

I know a Scoutmaster who loves the phrase "teaching success through failure." It's his view of what Scouting is, or at least should be, letting scouts learn to succeed by first failing, sometimes often, and then learning how to overcome that failure. Probably a long way of getting around to calling things "teachable moments", but it works for that SM and I see nothing in that philosophy that is in opposition to the methods of Scouting. Probably sums it all up nicely, really. I'm also just coming out of a family faith meeting in which a guest speaker (priest from a nearby town) talked about how he's a below-average priest, probably has some sins in his past that would shock the audience, and even today he sometimes fails in his calling, misses a cue to do the right thing. Kind of seems fitting given the topic at hand here. We're not all perfect, not even the people who we sometimes want to appear to be perfect and never make a mistake in what they do. It's kind of unrealistic, really, to expect that we'll always have flawless representatives of our beliefs for our kids to emulate. The point of what this priest was discussing was about vocations, and specifically how you don't need to be a perfect person to take on a vocation in the church. If we want a perfect person to represent Scouting, then we'll be without a representative. I can't think of a better example than Bear of what I expect from my Scouts. When we go out in the woods, we know these kids are going to make mistakes. I'd prefer to have an imperfect representative of Scouting and be able to point to him and say, "Bear made a mistake here, but lets talk about what he should have done, and what he could do now to fix it."

What's a common/reasonable fee to charge parents, scouts, and siblings to attend the Blue & Gold dinner? I think my Pack is on the expensive end, but before I mention what we're charging I want to get some unbiased opinions. Let me know what your Pack charges/charged and what you think is reasonable.

To be fair, Trail's End isn't exactly top-shelf product either. 😂 I hadn't heard about Country Meats. Will have to look in to that one. One of my "beefs" with popcorn is the steep prices of some of the products. $25 for a bag turns a lot of heads when your scouts are trying to snag some sales outside of a supermarket where a bag of popcorn sells inside for $3. $1 product I think would sell really well. A lot of folks who pass by a popcorn table are quite happy to drop a few bucks, even without actually buying something. I think my scouts would do a lot better with a cheaper product. I could imagine a lot of people dropping a $5 bill on the table for a $1 meat stick and saying "keep the change".

On the back cover of the latest Boys' Life is an ad for Jack Links and their fundraising opportunities for BSA units. More info here: https://www.jacklinks.com/boy-scouts-fundraising/ Anyone tried this fundraiser yet? If so, how did it go? It seems much simpler than popcorn. One product, a $15 box that contains two beef sticks, one bag of beef jerky, one bag of original tender bites, one bag of teriyaki tender bites.

It's sad that they're drawing these divisive lines in the sand. There are parents in my Pack with girls in both BSA and GSUSA. Are they going to make them choose? I've always been supportive of the girl in my Wolf den who is also a Girl Scout doing both activities. I ask her how things are going in GS and I'm nothing but positive about her experience and I genuinely think it's great that she gets to have 2 different scouting experiences. Now I wonder what the parents in her GS unit say, if they're as encouraging. I certainly hope so, but I have to wonder.

This guy is looking for you:

The "girl scouts" thing is definitely justified in being picked apart. We all have a lot of adjusting to do to the new language of the BSA, so calling each other out on missteps I think is necessary and constructive. Not just because of the lawsuit. I cringe every time we're at a Pack meeting with girls in attendance and a leader addresses the Pack saying "boys". At the Cub level we've been at this since last summer and we're still not getting it right. This needs to be picked apart.

I suspect therein lies the confusion. At a glance, buddy might sound like "2nd scout working on the same MB", but further review (like the above) clears it up. Hopefully it's just a case of discussing this with the SM to clear up the rule for all involved.

I wore this patch on my uniform as a youth from probably 93-97, only taking it off to put on the JLT patch. Over those years I had pretty constant requests to trade it or sell it. To this day I think it's the coolest patch I've ever seen, although my opinion may be slightly biased. 😁 I check eBay for these periodically, and there are plenty of Allamuchy patches up for sale, but never this one. If anyone has one or ever sees one up for sale, I'd be interested in picking up an extra.

I made the comment earlier that Scout rank is the troop equivalent of Bobcat at the Pack level. Going back to that comment, I'd add that since many Packs (mine included) bang out Bobcat in one meeting, I see no reason to be concerned about the rapid rank advancement at that level. If it continues in Tenderfoot, Second Class and beyond, sure I'd be concerned, just like I'd be concerned to see rapid completion of anything at the Cub level besides Bobcat. If it were me, I'd take a wait-and-see approach to this. Check out the next meeting, the 3rd meeting, see what's happening. Then decide if there's really cause for concern.

Why is it a "dumb idea"? You detailed why going to camp was good for you. But what's so "dumb" about a parent or adult leader wanting to keep their distance from their own scout, especially the first year at camp?

I think that's entirely reasonable. What bothers me about Pete's arrangement is that he'd have to commit to it monthly, and assuming it takes place on a weekend that's 10-12 weekends each year that are now unavailable for other Pack activities. Even if you only needed a few scouts to work the burger stand, you can't schedule something else for the Pack that day (or weekend). Something about the money bothers me too. Can't quite put my finger on it but the idea of the CO profiting while the Pack can only ever hope to earn the flat $1,000 contribution seems off. Nothing wrong per se with a CO benefiting from being a CO. Ideally we all hope the relationship is mutually beneficial. But in this case it's just a little murky.

It's weird in that this was a "gift" of $1,000 previously and now it's become a thing you have to do to get that same $1,000. It could still be perceived as completely generous and helpful to the pack/troop, but it just has a bit of a negative to it when it is presented in this way, demanding that you work for it or you won't get it anymore. If you're comfortable with it, go for it. I wouldn't do it if it were me, but only because I know it would be a challenge to organize enough scouts on a monthly basis to work the burger stand. The monthly commitment, the need to be there each and every month, that'a tough, and I'd be nervous about that commitment getting in the way of other activities.

That's ridiculous. I run recruiting for my Pack and I'd quit the job in an instant if my district wanted that much control over how we recruit. Guess I'm lucky. My DE showed up at our last recruiting night and the only time he talked to me was to just say that he was impressed with what we were doing. Beyond that he watched from the sidelines and that's exactly where a district rep belongs at a recruitment event.

That sounds like what the Pack in the original post did, essentially add time to the cars so that it becomes difficult for them to win. Cars still run, kids still get to see their car on the track and cheer on the races, and the only difference is that the end results will basically eliminate those cars either through disqualification or penalty time added. Interesting that it seems to have 2 entirely different effects between Packs. Yours seems fine with it, while for @karunamom3 it caused a lot of distress. What else I'd suggest beside what I already posted earlier here is just what I intend to do next year in my Den (and possibly Pack-wide): Make it abundantly clear that there are rules, they must be adhered to, and that there are some key things that could lead to absolute disqualification. I get feeling (from this forum and from what I observe in my own Pack) that far too many parents are aware of the rules but seem to think that they won't be enforced. This is something I want to make sure is clarified; there are rules, and ignoring them means your scout's car will be disqualified, without exception. In the case of karunamom3, I'd make it clear that a new car must be built every year. Not a disassembled car from last year. You have to open a new kit and use those new car parts to make the car. One of the things I'll say here that I definitely wouldn't say to the parents in my den or pack is that in reality, there's little chance we'll know if someone uses a pre-bought kit. If the parts are official BSA parts, how would we know that some guy on eBay made the car? But that doesn't mean I wouldn't still try to make people wonder if we can figure it out somehow. 😁 A parent's fear of getting their scout disqualified is often enough to keep them from doing something that is against the rules, even when they think they might be able to get away with it. As long as it is plain and clear that there are strict rules, and they will be enforced.

You're 100% right, and if I seem at all flippant in my attitude about "we'd be looking for a new troop", that's a fair assessment. But also, going back to my previous comments, I think being in an environment where advancement is blocked or delayed unnecessarily just because of some troop culture, that's just as damaging as uprooting a scout, maybe more so. My experience as a youth makes me think that's accurate. I knew a lot of guys that quit, my troop dwindled in size over the years to the point where while I was in college it folded entirely. Meanwhile other troops in town flourished, and (maybe coincidentally) those troops were the ones with no added restrictions on advancement, scouts went as fast or as slow as they wanted to. And again, talking to guys from my old troop, many of them have a negative view of their scouting experience and aren't active today with their kids. So absolutely, switching troops is tough on the scout involved. But is it worse than staying in a troop environment where they aren't having a good experience? And although in a perfect world we'd be able to change the troops and leaders who create these barriers, let's be honest, that rarely happens. Even in cases where we've seen councils intervene, often times leaders don't change and the old troop culture still remains. And in some cases the scout (and their family) who raise the issue are labeled as troublemakers and their experience gets even worse. I think you're right to suggest that I might be overlooking the impact on the scout when a change in unit is the chosen path. But I also think it's much harder than it might seem to change the culture in a unit where they have theses sometimes long-standing unofficial rules about advancement.

One of our local troops has a hard rule on this: No parents at summer camp for any first-year camper. Doesn't matter the age, if this is the scout's first time at summer camp, no parent of that scout can attend. Of course with exceptions only for any medically required or otherwise necessary situations. But generally, unless a parent can show a real definitive reason they must be at camp, they're not allowed.

I'm not sure that's the correct analogy for Scouting. At some point long ago the BSA made a conscious change from a "proficiency" system to a "merit" system. We no longer require a show of proficiency in a skill after the requirement is signed off. I get your point, that the unit should create opportunities to use the skill, hence reinforcing memory of said skill and retention of it. But I don't think it's a shortcut to quickly learn what is necessary to satisfy a requirement and get it signed off. Maybe it's not the ideal method for Scouts to learn and retain these skills, but by the book, it's what we've got, and we can't hold it against scouts that this is not a "proficiency" program.

When I was a Tiger den leader we made Altoids tin first aid kits. Which was good for limiting what could go into them and also kind of fit the age of the group appropriately. Tigers really can't do much first aid beyond learning how to use a Band-Aid, so that's mostly what went into the kits. I got parents to chip in to buy supplies. $5 per scout covered more than enough stuff. I asked scouts to bring their own container/tin, but I bought a few extra just in case.