Jameson76

Sadly National and most council SE (or CEO for the really vain) only will care if it assists in the fundraising efforts. Scouts out doing things and impacting lives is of little value to the Professional Scouters. In their mind raising money is where the real action is. How can the "positive vibes" be monetized

You could have the older Scout serve as a JASM to guide the younger scout as the SPL for camp. Then the leaders in camp will never have to get out of their chair to deal with anything

Correct - For the week we attended, 41% of units were from out of council / out of state

Camp is $380 per Scout. This includes 1 off site per scout for horseback ride or river rafting Less than 5 Scouts - no free leaders At least 5 Scouts - 2 free leaders 25 to 34 Scouts - 3 free leaders 35 to 44 Scouts - 4 free leaders 45 to 54 Scouts - 5 free leaders 55 to 64 Scouts - 6 free leaders 65 to 74 Scouts - 7 free leaders 75 or more Scout - 8 free leaders Leaders cost $200 per week if not free

Returned from camp on Saturday, just some observations on new scouts and troop sizes The camp we attend has about 1,000 campers per week (+/-). This is week 2 for them. They have had roughly that number for the last 15 years or so that I have attended there with the troop. Some observations. 1) New Scouts - Typically new Scouts made up roughly 25% - 30% of the attendees. This year it was about 15%. Mainly this is due to Covid we presume and the decimation of the packs in 2020 and 2021. Possibly this will improve, but it did have an impact 2) Troop size - In the past to have 1,000 Scouts there were usually about 38 - 40 troops in camp, average of maybe 26 Scouts per troop. This year there were 56 troop is camp. That is an average of 18 Scouts per troop. A drop of 30% in size to camp. Obviously this is anecdotal and one snippet of data, but it is interesting. The camp ran well, Scouts had a great time, much fun was had by all.

Would this be an addition to BSA Scout program OR instead of Scouts (BSA)? Wonder who "You" is and who are you paying?

This could be part of the issue. If BSA, with myriad of staff and volunteers on multiple levels still needs to inform key stakeholders (one would assume they are that as they are at NAM) what "Social Media" may be, BSA has missed the boat. BSA unfortunately uses social media as a billboard and not a reflection of the program. They should be highlighting participants doing things, not just promoting events. Social media should be a way to spark interest in (1) Families of young people (2) Actual youth. But, as BSA does little to no marketing or brand awareness any way, guess missing the social media juggernaut is expected.

That sums it up. One would think the goal would be to make it easier to add and retain members, not the opposite Many of the volunteer leaders that are at the national level have no idea what it takes to run a unit in the current environment. Many have been actual unit leaders, but it has been a while. I have a friend that does work on various national committees, last time he was on an actual campout with actual scouts in the actual woods was maybe 15+ years ago. Many decisions appear to be made in a vacuum. Once you lose touch with your core customer, the battle is lost. In our unit we have some good group of seasoned leaders, but, we are concerned as none of us have Scouts in the troop. We do have leaders with active Scouts, but many of us do not have that connection to the middle school parent mindset, what drives them. Even though we are active, go on outings etc, there is a knowledge gap. BSA has lost that connectivity. The National volunteers, being so far removed from the field, do not fully grasp the current on the ground unit conditions. The professional Scouts are fully focused on FOS, popcorn, camp cards, and whatever else raises money, that is used to fund the overhead (professional scouters), and then you add more professionals to raise money to have professionals. Rinse, lather, repeat.

To quote Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles....We've gotta protect our phony baloney jobs!. Or in the BSA's case .... We've gotta raise money for our phony baloney jobs!

I see both sides. All the leaders in our unit have or had youth in the unit; but we always need assistance. Random person comes in and wants to volunteer, that is all good, BUT, we as the unit do have a responsibility to vet volunteers. After college I worked with my home unit for a couple of years, that was the connection. Working in a new area I worked with the troop at my church, again that was the connection. I another area I worked with a troop where I was good friends with the SM (we had been involved in Scouting activities). The road to the volunteerism is smoother with some type of tangible connection. Good luck on your scouting journey and look for some connections to get that right fit.

To add to some numbers observations 1 - In addition to local camps, more than 28,384 participants went on treks at the BSA’s four national high-adventure bases: Philmont Scout Ranch, the Summit Bechtel Reserve, Sea Base, and Northern Tier Philmont (Pre-Pandemic) would handle 20,000 + in a year. That would be mean less than 3,000 each for the other 3 bases, which is really low. I guess the DisneyEsque Billion $ Bechtel Boondoggle is not packing in the Scouts 2 - In 2022, 35,533 young men and women earned the Eagle Scout rank, joining more than 2.7 million Americans before them. That was running +/- 50,000 annually 3 - 248 councils and 1,042,028 participants That averages only about 4,200 Youth members per council. Assuming a Scout Executive for each council at is about $195K in expenses (salary / benefits travel), that is $48,360,000 or $46 per Scout just for Council Overhead SE management. Definitely a lot of room for consolidation

Is Scouting Fun - depends on how the unit is run. Is it a game with a purpose? Yes there are many forms, impediments, and potential oversight challenges, but actually the GTSS leaves open many many items. For our unit we eschew district and council events, they are waaay to much not fun. When you get the 40 page PDF and have a 45 minute safety briefing at the leader meeting can be trouble. Someone asked if one of us should step in and help plan, our feedback was life it to short, there are some ingrained folks that run those so better to move on to more fun things. One headwind we are seeing is parents that want WEB III or more AOL plan for the Scouts that crossover into troops. Keep them together in their dens, need to have advancement centric outings, don't be too challenging, family type outings, MB outings. In their view Scouting is not about fun but about what can their Scout materially (ranks etc) get from the program. Make sure all events are geared toward 5th and 6th grade, don't worry about the older scouts. Another troop works that way, and more power to them, but they have a high attrition as Scouts age, and by 8th grade, hard to force youth the participate if they do not want to. Scouting can be fun, but it can also become boring if the SCOUTS are not planning the outing and events. If they are not directing what is going one. Correct you cannot indulge everything they bring forth (time and money can be an issue) but if you give them some guide rails it definitely becomes their program. The leaders can work closely and give input, challenge as needed, but then it becomes fun.

There are the numbers listed in the report to congress Cubs - 580,194 Scouts - 415,564 Venturing and Sea Scouts - 15,400 Explorers - 30,870 TOTAL - 1,042,028 Down from 4,683,000 in 1970

Use the troop website for signup and paypal to collect any fees. Leaders indicate who will attend also. For the outing we can set a cutoff time, Scouts can add notes if they are coming later or leaving early. Also we can enable for guests if appropriate. Scouts can see who signed up, etc etc. Then Monday before the outing the patrols plan meals. Transportation makes sure we have drivers

Not to stir the pot too much, but I was triggered they referenced Native Americans and not First Nation, or indigenous, or First Nation indigenous. Though First Nation may be a Canadian thing. Also, on the demographic questions at the end, only 2 sex choices, that is soooo 2015. The survey folks need to take CIS merit badge apparently.

Interesting thoughts. Our unit would be considered an "old school" traditional unit. Camping, hiking, Scouts playing games in the woods, youth led, etc. etc. Many families are opting for the units that are perhaps more new wave. What Scout units are becoming is reflective of what the families EXPECT a Scout unit to be now. That would be a unit that has evolved into Cub Scouts next level. Dare I say AOL III. Rather than adventures and challenges to overcome and the Scouts becoming more self assured, the expectations are that the unit will be more like a supervised classroom and leaders sort of run things. Can't have anything to upset a youth. While this may work for the 5th - 7th graders, as they may still be able to be sent to Scouts, as the youths get older and want some independence, they just leave Scouts. Mainly because due to the program not fulfilling expectations of adventure. For out unit majority of Scouts stay well into High School because they run it and they have fun. Over 1/2 attain Eagle. For some of the new wave units, they have a goodly number of 5th - 7th graders, but no real older youth leadership cadre. Once the Scouts leave they do not go to other units, they leave the program. Many parents now see the Scouts (the 11 -17 program) not as a 6 to 7 year program that a youth grows into, perhaps a longer term commitment that can be rewarding down the road through the challenges they encounter. They want a managed club for a couple of a couple of years. Move in lock step, more check the boxes, some campouts that are safe and heavily supervised and managed. Can't have any confrontations or demanding situations impede the youth. Not sure what Scouts BSA will look like in 5 years.

I would agree the ES workbook is a good framework. I think it gives the Scout guidance and also limits the scope of input or pushback Our unit averages 10 - 12 Eagle Scout annually. My role is the Life to Eagle coordinator. In working with Scouts on their proposals I want to see if they understand the scope of what they are proposing and what it will actually take to accomplish. I had one Scout that was looking at building a footbridge for a school's cross country course. Estimate was 4' bridge. Seemed very straightforward, but, in our discussions he had taken input from the school on length needed. I advised him to do a specific site visit. The creek was in fact only 4 feet wide, but, the banks were sloped and to build a safe bridge at the level of the trail the bridge would need to be 15'. A big change in scope and engineering. He did the bridge, but the scope was much larger. bigger crew to haul lumber, 2 x 8's for the span, etc etc. The proposal is just that, a proposal. Does the Scout understand what is needed and what it will take. The plan is where the rubber meets the road on costs and other needs. All it takes in one WB trained tinpot dictator with an over inflated sense of worth to make what should be a good learning and experience process descend into a bureaucratic hell and never ending pointless rounds questions that have no real value.

Key notation in the ESSP Note that you are not required to provide more details than are necessary for the accomplishment of your project. While the written plan is important and can be useful, again, the requirement is "PLAN". This does not specify how or what is required.

I would agree. We are all volunteers and Scouts should be welcoming. That being said, this is the concern - Challenged youth has meltdown due to meds issue and harms an adult counselor. The SE is concerned about liability, if the Scout has harmed an adult counselor, in a camp or program setting, what safeguards are in place. As noted, even if admitted into a Lone Scout program they Scout could register for a provisional troop at summer camp, or for a merit badge event. Not sure there is a good solution here and in many cases, the SE may not be the bad person. In this case there may not be a bad person.

Interesting wording - He accidentally violated the no adult-youth one on one contact rule - If it was indeed an accident, why were the parents upset? Seems a quick conversation with the parents could have allayed any fears and life moves on. I am assuming once National is looped in, sort of takes on a life of it's own.

We are at close to $650K for our SE (sorry CEO) for salary and benefits. For the top 5 staff it is north of $1.6MM Over 1/3 of the council staff is development (fundraising), marketing (figuring out how to fundraise), program management (running fundraisers)

Our council is charging $2,400 for the Jamboree. The actual fee is of course lower. Effective November 1, 2022, the price for a Contingent member registering for the Jamboree will increase to $1,500 (14% or $215) due to economic conditions such as fuel, food, and supply issues. It is strongly recommended that Councils modify their advertised pricing to reflect this change. The payment plan is being revised and should allow both BSA Members and Councils additional time to transition member payments to councils and council payments to the Jamboree. Still, that seems high for what is basically 2 weeks of summer camp (10 days). If council fees for summer camp are $450 for the SUN - SAT experience, basically 6 days, that is $75 per day. A 10 day Jamboree would be maybe $750. Effectively National has doubled what may be effective. I am assuming they will have creative book keeping to show they barely made a profit. Then the councils are adding their profit to the mix. Philmont is now (2024) $1,575 for a 12 day trek, so $131 per day. BSA is mighty pricey.

Well. I guess as long as they are the "Disneyworld of the BSA" might as well charge for it. Will there be lightning pass and character breakfast options?

If only all that money BSA poured into the cash sink that is Summit (north of $750 million) was available and had NOT been dumped by the truckload in West Virginia

Agree. I do see many of the AOL patrols (dens??) that have no prep and expect Scouts to be just more cub scouting. The whole independence, youth led is lost. Parents seem to have culture shock that there is not hovering and social promotion. Also grades 3 - 5 is all that is needed. Do you really need to go to the fire station leventy nine times??