Jameson76

My thought is everyone read the floated proposed requirements and said WTH, this is worthless. Must have been a lot of pushback. The language was suspect at best and agenda driven at worst. They decided to punt.

If you recall Surbagh's Town Hall video, he as much admitted they (National gang) was pretty much out of ideas on how to add members to the program. The adding girls was a hail Mary. In reality they did not want to do the hard work of figuring out why some units succeed and others fail, that would require maybe a real reflective look at the program. Nope, it was the easy route they took "let's add girls". Not saying it was a bad idea, just need to be honest on WHY.

I had one of my Scouts ask me about some of the musicians (that they all seem to listen to now) from the late 70's and 80's. Specifically Bowie, Elton John, and Freddie Mercury. Did we care they were bi or gay, was that an issue, what did we think of them. My answer was that (and this sort of shocked them), they were more defined by their talent and what they actually did than their persona. Did not recall if they were openly out or swinging at the time, but everyone sort of knew it, but we accepted that they were talented, that is what mattered. I see the challenge today is that many are defining people NOT by their talents BUT more by their races, genders, sexual preferences, and gender identities. It seems more important WHO you are and identify as than WHAT you can actually do. We as a society seem to have gone backward to almost the days of who you were being defined by your family (replace family for whatever group(s) people may want to be identified as) and their place in society, not what YOU individually can do and bring to a group.

There is no way to leave personal politics out of the discussion. Each of us brings our own experiences, political beliefs, personal beliefs into everything we do and express. To deny that is naive, we can try, but it is there. Also to deny the WHY of this merit badge is akin to putting one's head in the sand. It is being put forth as window dressing and to show compliance to an agenda. Now, can we as a nations do better, absolutely. Are we as a nation as bad as many have made it out to be, absolutely not.

I am not the one using this term (see below) in requirement #1 - Intersectionality. You speak of no politics, yet it is in the definition of the term Intersectionality is a theoretical framework for understanding how aspects of a person's social and political identities combine to create different modes of discrimination and privilege. Examples of these aspects are gender, caste, sex, race, class, sexuality, religion, disability, physical appearance, and height. What exactly do you think the goals of this merit badge are? Are they to "broaden horizons" or are they to prove to many the BSA is now WOKE and on board with SJW? Much like the National BSA accepting Black Lives Matter (note they capitalized this) and it's stated desire to do away with the nuclear family and embrace Marxist ideals. Diversity and Inclusion are noble and worthy goals, but who is setting those goals and do all agree on what those goals may in fact be? Note many of us did not wade into this discussion, but National led the way. Now we are here and yes, politics, however one may define that, is a factor and cannot be denied to have an influence.

Sadly you do not even have to attend a local event... or learn about such an event that occurred historically. 100% Classroom and discussion. No actual "doing". Just indoctrination

Great - another classroom MB. Quick read I can see this will be an MBU offering, if Scouts can stay awake, they are granted DEI and Scouts BSA improves it's wokeness factor

We have had recent visitors (AOL's) who the family definitely wants the Webelos III experience. Not so much Family Scouting but they want to stay in their group, advance together, etc etc. They also want the 60 page Troop handbook, specific advancement steps, very scheduled on outings and summer camp; etc etc. Our input is this is a boy led troop. The method is YOUTH led and each Scout finds their own path. We can facilitate, but it is driven by each Scout. Our success (IMHO) is judged by the number of Scouts we have a active that are in High School and come when they can because (wait for it....) our Troop is FUN and they get away from the parents for a weekend. Also the downtime on the outings in the afternoons is very welcome for them.

Good Lord, that would be the end for many people. Just want we need, YPT zealots descending on a meeting to "evaluate" and offer their sage advice. All I can think of is the political officers spread throughout the Soviet Union to keep an eye on stuff and make sure everyone drank the appropriate amount of party Kool Aid That would in fact be the end of Scouting. Also, the family Scouting concept (for Scouts older than 11 years old or middle school) will be the final nail in the coffin

Reminiscent of Supreme Court Justice confirmation hearings. No real way to validate or prove truth, you either accept or you are believe in the rule of law want to see evidence. There is not an easy answer. As was the case for many of these incidents, there was just the two of them there - victim and abuser. No other eye-witnesses. No physical evidence. No incriminating diary or photographs. Just the accuser's account. Families, Councils, Law Enforcement (maybe), Chartering Organizations, Troop Committees...did what they could with what they have at that time

Don't forget, we all fund 4-H, so it's not apples to apples on program costs. Funding is through state budgets and taxes. It is part of Cooperative Extension offices, likely at the County level in many states. In Georgia it is run through the University System of Georgia This is an advisement from 2019 on budget cuts - Those include a combined $4.7 million cut from the University of Georgia’s agricultural experiment stations, three research centers that teach farming techniques and management in Athens, Griffin and Tifton. The school’s cooperative extension service, which runs agricultural and 4-H programs, is penciled in for a cut of $4.4 million.

That was a long time ago, do not recall the youth(s) names as I was not directly involved.

It is a challenge with the age of accusations and the time in which they were handled. When I was a DE (Back in the 80's) there was a issue in one of the districts. None of the families wanted to formally involved the police. The CO (a church) did not want the police formally involved. As there was not a required reporter laws NOR shield protections laws, if we (the council) had called the police, that could have opened us up to slander issues. We terminated the alleged abuser's membership in the BSA, put his name in the file, and that was all we could legally and legitimately do AT THAT TIME. Spring forward 30 - 40 years, now the case is being made we should have done something. But in reality we did DO something. Is it comparable to today's expectations, no. Same as when I was in car wreck in mid 70's and got a head injury as there were no airbags. Can I sue GM now as they did not provide that safety feature as standard back then?

Do not underestimate the damage done in the 70's with the ISP (Improved Scouting Program). That was a pivotal misstep and lack of direction and understanding by Ivory Tower National Leadership on how the program works. So many left youth and so many youth NEVER became Scouts and while that immediate loss was epic, the longer term an effect that has driven the quest for the golden ring of "membership" lo these last 50 years. Without being members as youth, many were not invested in the program. As adults they did not involve their kids, so less members. Rinse, lather, repeat. National then embarked on many misbegotten and NON CORE efforts that really degraded the "fun with a purpose" thrust. Sort of like Moses wandering in the desert. Now the National movement organization is bankrupt, there are 90,000 abuse cases (thought that may have come about anyway) and membership has to be way less than the 2 million youth declared at the end of 2019. I fear that Gloria Gaynor's words "I Will Survive" will not ring true for the BSA.

No matter how you may feel on this, biggest challenge is this is the continuing move away from our CORE COMPETENCY. Is this "Fun with a Purpose"? I would say no and it does not add value to the program. I am not suggesting that the possible issue may be important to society, but there are many many issues that may be important to society. The BSA cannot be all things to all people. The more we try the more we wander aimlessly with each special interest group looking to "mold" the Scouting movement in America to what they "feel" is important and critical. Stick with the basics, focus on fun and outdoors, differentiate the Scouting movement in the market place. Drill down to the WHY kids join. This is like houses, not every house one builds may suit everyone. Deal with the reality and be good at what we do and narrow focus on that. Bending and moving to the winds of whatever is current will continue to kill the movement.

Or younger. A 22 year old leader in 1985 would be 57 today. Mid eighties (83 - 87) is only (only...God I sound old) 37 years ago. I've got a Philmont belt older than that

Not dismissing the potential accuracy or validity of this claim, but how can the BSA (or any group for that matter) put up a reasonable defense again this claim? No real way to even verify the claimant was active in a unit at the time of the alleged abuse. As many have noted, unless there was an actual criminal complaint and conviction pre about 1980, the accuser could be liable for accusations. Basically a no win scenario now.

Again - the priorities continue to be way off base. Clueless being led by more clueless and being led by consultants with stock powerpoints so it seems they did something. Under BSA Council Basic Standards - they put the only mention of anything related to PROGRAM at the bottom. That is insane. THAT IS NUMBER ONE..PROGRAM DRIVES EVERTYTHING!! Under Council Performance Standards Charter they put RENTENTION way down the list. That is an indicator of (wait for it) PROGRAM...THAT NEEDS to be BE NUMBER ONE!! Under Leading Indicators of Successful Councils they do not even mention PROGRAM!! Painfully obvious the vaunted Churchill group does not understand how PROGRAM is what drives SUCCESS!!

Boypower Manpower...worked so well in the late 60' and 70's. Basically DE's registered all the names one could find in the graveyards. That was followed by the always popular In School Scouting in the 90's, which got you lots of Scouts that had no idea they were Scouts as they used donations to provide registration fees. They will keep trying and trying quotas until they get it right

But .... but .... we are always told Scouting's a great value, less than sports..yada yada yada. Worth WAAAY more than being charged. Also they (National) did a survey and 129% of families want a program *like* Scouting (note that does not actually mean they want to join Scouting...but we digress). If the Brain Trust does not truly understand and accept the reasons for Scouting's decline (muddled program initiatives, Zero National marketing, no real "benchmarking" to determine best practice for successful units, etc etc) they will never be able to correct, improve, and move forward. I am thinking 16 National Subset ZONEs will have NO impact on actual units and improvement in membership rolls.

Agree - Just because a Troop does not have advancement centric outings does not mean advancement may not occur on outings. It should be organic. As an example, these are requirements 9B of the Camping merit badge On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision: Hike up a mountain where, at some point, you are at least 1,000 feet higher in elevation from where you started. Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least four miles. Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours. Take a non-motorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles. Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience. Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more. Annually we do 5 of these in the normal course of our normal outdoor program. That is what Scouting should be, going out and doing stuff. Sadly we rarely if ever are able to PLAN a snow camping experience what with being down south and all.

Our troop does knife throwing on a regular basis. Have a mobile target, ribbon off space, use the smaller knives to throw. Here's a pro-tip, make sure your knives have bright orange on them, or they will in fact get lost in the leaves or ground cover. We have some throwing hatchets, but have not come up with a decent target that can be mobile.

Don't kid yourself that this is about COVID. That may be the reason given, but in all likelihood it's about money. If units start doing things together and having a fun time, how in the world will the Council be able to monetize these events? Why maybe we don't really need the council management overhead. All those fees for camporees and council events come with a "surcharge" that goes to the council coffers. God forbid, troops may get together and run their own summer camp for a greatly reduced cost.

Looks to be 140 acres and was possibly on the block in 2010. At that time The Boy Scouts hoped that a conservation organization like the Trust for Public Land would buy the development rights to most of the 140-acre property. The sale would provide an infusion of as much as $30 million to the Boy Scouts https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/nyregion/24scout.html

We just got back from weekend backpacking. The camping area was on a bend in a river. River is up due to rains, so we had to have the boys figure a way to get to the river, step on to a downed tree to float the intake for the water filter. Good times to get water, but on the plus side, sort of an unlimited supply