buffalo2

OT - Just out of curiousity, what might you bring to the attention of our National Venturing professionals? Again not to put you on the spot, but is there something that you could share for the general edification of the group? I'm pretty sure that you'd be able to summarize your thoughts well and ask general questions rather than dwell on specifics... And I've learned that many of us have similar issues. Thanks

SPLT15 - I can just picture that PLC meeting, and think that you did well just to survive much less get anything accomplished... We've had occasional hints at a much milder form of this from time to time, and as a result ALL of the adults stay out of our PLCs. The SM kicks it off with a quick reminder of calendar items and last-minute changes, and then wanders off. Our SPL runs his meeting and takes care of business on his own, sometimes with less than perfect results. We ASMs deliberately stay out of it but will occasionally stick our heads in the door to look over someone's notes or field a question, rarely do we hang around long enough to attract curious parents etc. Usually a quick review of one of the older PL's notes suffices to keep us current, and the SPL and SM have their own review. Not always the smoothest and most efficient way to operate, but gets it done for us. The PLC is perfectly clear on who is running THEIR Troop... And I seem to recall that that's important?

Say that again Dan - sounds like the problem is a little more widespread? And satisfying as it might be to visualize some of these more extreme treatments of clueless adults, are we sure that this is a good example to place before our youth? Even joking around, we can send the wrong signals... We've all got these adults to deal with, give it the best that you can and move on Hang in there SPLT15 - things can only improve!

Say that again Dan - sounds like the problem is a little more widespread? And satisfying as it might be to visualize some of these more extreme treatments of clueless adults, are we sure that this is a good example to place before our youth? Even joking around, we can send the wrong signals... We've all got these adults to deal with, give it the best that you can and move on Hang in there SPLT15 - things can only improve!

Say that again Dan - sounds like the problem is a little more widespread? And satisfying as it might be to visualize some of these more extreme treatments of clueless adults, are we sure that this is a good example to place before our youth? Even joking around, we can send the wrong signals... We've all got these adults to deal with, give it the best that you can and move on Hang in there SPLT15 - things can only improve!

Eammon - you've seen a lot well said above and I can only agree with much of it. The time will come for your lad when he works that Eagle for his own reasons, and he will be all the richer for it. Keep the faith!

Whew!

Wonder if its worth trying a 'bring a buddy' overnight. Use your local Council property for the controlled environment, and get your permission slips in line and you might have to consider some of your activities ie probably not a good weekend to go rock climbing or skeet shooting. Be sure to invite your local Weblos den as well! Idea is to show the curious just how much fun you can have away from the Gameboy; you won't get them all but the ones that do join will likely stick around... Your mileage may vary

Real men sew all their own patches - and are particularly proud when they don't go through the pocket! I have a tough time threading and knotting that clear thread so have accumulated a lot of colors over the years... Instead of using staples to tack things in place try hat pins - those big faces anchor patches pretty well and they're Scout-friendly. Perhaps a bit of a challenge on square knots and the like but definitely eases the process. How do we motivate our Scouts to learn this lost art? Ive been known to repair things on campouts but that doesn't always get it - amazes me that these guys can lay out elaborate web sites and plan Philmont treks and still can't sew a button (or won't?)

TP Best thing that we can do as Advisors is get it going and step back! If you can swing it see if you can involve your youth in this - maybe pitch it as a skit/presentation/play and watch them jump aboard. And ever so much more meaningful (and fun) for the audience! Don't mean to preach to the choir though...

btps (and how do you pronounce that by the way) Check out the Venturing Electronic Magazine and look for the 'lessons learned' A good place to start - and keep talking to people! And wish that I had a magic wand for those lines of communication!

Mammoth Cave used to run canoe trips through but got out of it... Might be a tough one to find! BTW if you're looking for a High Adventure trip check out the High Knoll program at Camp Powhatan in the Blue Ridge Council - Western Va and beautiful country.

Hops, this is real and I'd encourage you to closely read some of the more thoughtful portions of that thread. Understand that there's a multitude of different backgrounds and skill levels contributing to those bulletin boards. Scouts and climbing mix pretty well, but we have to be pretty careful on how we do it (working to the lowest common denominator sadly) because the stakes are pretty high. That 5000# anchor requirement comes from the 2004 BSA Climbing Standards. The folks that I know that are involved with that are skilled and rational, and I won't argue with their decision. It's a little inconvenient, but just not that tough to comply and stay safe. If you and your Troop are getting into this look around for training; it's available but you'll probably have to dig for it. Be careful!

Good Luck FS - this is a great thing that you're taking on! Keep us posted

The term 'Inquisition' comes to mind - poor kid Is BoR covered in Troop Committee training? Or how do we get the idea across?

Always some variety... And thats a good thing!

KMG - sounds like some training is in order... One of the offshoots of the Troop-level JLT is that the SM and the PLC have a back-channel oppportunity to review things and get on the same page for the upcoming year. If local JLT isn't in the cards, would be well worth the time spent to find another Troop thats conducting one and try to audit? Or facilitate several small Troops working together on one. While this isn't the preferred way, it beats a blank. If these folks are pretty familiar with the training regimen, maybe worth having your SPL get a little proactive and propose some details within the established annual framework - then present that at the next PLC for fine-tuning Don't forget that everybody has bad nights and that Troop meetings aren't known for bringing out the best in anybody... Acco40 - the written version of the plan isn't for YOU necessarily but for the PLC, Committee, etc. Its their best structure to move forward with, and can only come from one place. Maybe takes some of the sting out of the issue? (Belated fractured syntax warning) Hops - What are your thoughts on 6 month term versus a full year for that ASPL serving as understudy idea? I've heard it both ways Thanks

Believe that I'll vote for George again...

Mom you're on the right track - while I know nothing about Girl Scouts, sounds like those older ones need something to do. Not as a punishment, but in keeping with their enhanced skills and abilities. And aren't they running the Troop??? In our BSA Troop we occasionally sort out the older ones (we call it Venture PATROL) and hang it out a little further, reminding these guys that they have to work with the younger kids as well. Works kinda, but puts an additional load on the adults. I've seen those older problem children become outstanding leaders in the Troop, but sometimes its a rocky road! Your mileage may vary

Hats off to OGE for snatching us once again from sinking into the quagmire (yet again) I'm embarrassed that our youth members see all the juvenile bickering that goes on in here - we probably wouldn't tolerate it from them! Would you mind running that post through a couple of other sections of the forum? Thanks again

OT You're not alone in questioning the level of some of the pieces within the VLSC, and it is difficult to nail it down. Another example of a program attempting to be all things to all attendees... Might we ask for a little more thought on this? Was there any one thing that really seemed out of place? Maybe the expansion on a theme or was it the entire section? (Haven't looked at this syllabus lately but will get to it soon) Or was something missing that several folks noticed? Or coming from the other direction, what worked well? If you were going to facilitate one of these trainings (and those calls WILL come) what would you see as really important and what might you consider glossing over? Anything that you might consider adding? One last line of questioning; was your program led by adults or Venturers? Was the course limited to your own Crew or more than one? Might that have had some bearing on your experience? Apologize if you feel put on the spot; please understand that it's difficult to find good feedback on some of this stuff! Thanks O yes - Welcome aboard!(This message has been edited by buffalo2)

This all sounds pretty good OX; got an interest in COPE myself actually... In our Council, we're trying hard to get more folks out to check out our facility by incorporating small pieces at Camporees and Jamborees and inviting the local OA lodge to come and play and return to their units with good reports. Also hope to present the Climbing MB and help out small Troops with their JLT sessions. Promote everywhere that you can reach within the Scouting community; District program kickoffs and Roundtables are good venues as well. Making your course available to Church youth groups doesn't hurt either. This isn't addressing the corporate world however; that's a little tougher sell and looking for some ideas myself. But if you get the word around where you can easily reach you're making a good start at least! I think the idea of using a university marketing class is a pretty good one. And must agree with MK that the cost of mailings will add up, could you partially offset that cost for the second tier by using a website instead of the CD ?

This should be interesting (seriously) Looking forward to the report

We've had some luck combining Crews for this one, with each Crew putting on a different section - worked pretty well as a lock-in. Good opportunity to train some adults as well... And agree with OGE that it runs better than it reads

Petal - Forgive me for splitting a hair here but I think that it's important. These aren't 'boy officers' but Troop officers that happen to be young men. The tasks that go along with these positions can seem huge to them, and any support that we can offer to THEIR methods is appreciated. Again understand that you don't mean to trivialize their work, but we must keep it in mind always. Oh yes - that ceremony means a lot and is time well spent!(This message has been edited by buffalo2)