Buffalo Skipper

Stosh, You mentioned First Aid. Great one, but if you follow my original perimaters, as Beavah suggested, what can you do to turn this into a measurable, repeatable competition? I am not looking for "random ideas" which can be used at troop meetings. Those should be directly about the skills focus which the scouts are running with the meeting's (or month's) theme. I am talking about "bragging rights" which can be lost when bested. The events I described are posted on a big white board for all to see. They can be challenged on any campout (or other appropriate setting) by any patrol. The conditions can be repeated easily and the event does not take so long that it becomes a burden to run. 6 knots? easy. Set up a troop tent? simple. Make a fire? nothing to it. For the patrols which hold these "current" records, this is a significant matter of pride (patrol spirit!). That is the real goal, even more so thanthe actual skill.

I think that ASMs should definately have this knowledge. But the most important target of this should be your scouts. They are the ones who should be signing off advancement, so they must know the standard you expect.

The virtual campfire has had a few lighter posts lately. In that vein, let me ask you all a question. Whataretwo things (words, phrases, objects, etc.) that you never want to hear your scouts say in the same sentence, especially while out camping. My wife owns a pre-school, and the two things which put tremendous fear in her soul are the wordsPlaydough and Microwave. For troops it would be more like Controlled and Forest Fire. Can you come up with any?

Thanks weasel. That's kind of what I was picturing, but not what I had hoped. Thankfully, our council (nor neighboring ones to my knowledge) does not offer anything like this.

OK, I'm feeling a little lost on this one. What is an "Eagle Camp"? I may be able to figure it out, but I don't make assumptions about anything anymore.

Our troop has "lost" the skill (art) of using patrol tarps. We are looking for simple options for "car" camping. We are right now focused on a simple design, with a rectangular tarp and 2 poles (fold a sheet of paper in half length-ways, and imagine a pole at the peak of each end, the sides are staked out without poles). Do you get the idea? We tried the cheap extendable poles, and will not go that route again. Absolute waste of money and effort. We cleaned out QM closet this weekend and found several sets of poles which are older but very functional (8' height). Eureka makes a good tarp/dining fly (12'x12' Timberline), as does Snow Peak, but we really want to keep the cost down (and these are more than we are willing to pay). We also looked at some canvas tarps, but at 16oz/sq-yd, this serious overkill. We can go with the poly material, but we would perfer some lightweigth nylon or cloth. Our patrols each have a box which doubles as a stove stand, and we use 1 2x4 picnic table for every 4 scouts. With about 6-8 per patrol, this means 2 tables (8' length) plus the stove table/patrol box. With room to keep dry under the ends I see this as a minumum of 14', but this seems too big to me to practically use 2 poles. Ultimately, we want to leave this up to the patrols. This weekend is a campout, our first with the crossover scouts. Our weather will be excellent, but we will have the chance to experiment with a few options, so we would like to have some ideas available for them to try and decide upon. Thanks in advance for your ideas.

Not exactly in the same category, but similar fruit, we now have timed patrol competitions, with the times posted in the Scout Hut for all to see. Right now we have 3 patrol competitions. Scout Knot Challenge. A relay withthe patrol members tying the following knots: reef (square) knot, bowline, sheet bend, clove hitch, two-half hitches, and taut-line hitch. Fire Building.Standard build a fire, light it and burn through thetwine. We have standard pegs we use (14" height of the twine). As the scouts improve and master these skills, I intend to introduce a new variant, "fire starting" with either flint and steel (not magnesium) or bow (friction). Tent Pitching.This is simply a patrol timed event for pitching (including stakes) a troop issued tent. It is the standard tent that all scouts use, so it is one in which they are familiar. We also have an individual variation of the Scout Knot Challenge for individual scouts. Same knots, best time. Anyone who can offer any new ideas is welcome to do so. This is becoming a popular challenge for the patrols, and I would like to foster it. My real intent is to make it scout skill related, measurable, and easily repeatable (under the same conditions).

Bringing back patrol awards and individual competitions is paramount to what I am tring to do with our troop, and I have already done quite a bit. First, we have a "hiking season" in our troop (November-January) where we do back-to-back backpacking trips. At the following Court of Honor, we present the "Bigfoot award" (an old boot screwed to a wooden base), for showing the best enthusiasm and spirit while hiking (ususally to a younger scout). While spending my Christmas break cleaning out the old troop files, I found a package of old "Troop 3 Patrol of the Month" custom ribbons, just the right size for a patrol flag. After some time I found 44 of them (that's almost 4 years worth!) and the purchase receipt dating back to the mid 1980s. The PLC is now selecting a patrol of the month. We are instituting a "Scout of the Year award, with a massive trophy in the scout hut, with a hand carved and painted "boy scout" as the centerpiece. We will have a small plack with each scout's name and year to put on the rather large base. (one of our old scoutmasters is a skilled woodcarver--he did a similar carving of a cub scout for our pack's (den of the month floating trophy). Our campout last month was a cooking theme, and the best cooking patrol of the campout was awarded the "Golden Spatula" (a cheap spatula spray painted with a nice gold paint). It was a real hit with the scouts. We also have a Summer Camp Spirit camper award and a "Fish" award which we award at the early Fall CoH for the top aquatic preformer (swimming and canoing) of the summer. I think that these awards are doing quite a bit to promote patrol unity and encourage individual excellence in the troop. So far, it had been a big success.

How many have a Scouting bumper sticker? Or more than one? How about a BSA license plate? I have a Cub Scout and the Volunteer Stickers(thick vinyl type).I have a "Timeless Values" bumper sticker.I have a "Proud of my Cub Scout" bumper sticker.*And yes, I have a state Boy Scout custom licenseplate. No I do not drive an '89 Cutlass Caprice (but I gotta admit, the flur-di-lis hood ornament is really cool!) *My son just crossed to Boy Scouts, and he reminded me that he is no longer a Cub Scout, and that I should take off this bumper sticker. I had actually considered this a few months before, and I had a good answer for him. I said that as a Webelos den leader, I still have Cub Scouts, and I am proud of them all. He is friends with several of them, and he just nodded and replied: "Yes, I guess you do."

Congratulations on graduating and it's good to have an experienced scout return to scouting. This is a great place to voice your opinions and to learn something new. Welcome to the virtual campfire.

I looked into these definintions a few months ago (for the same reason) and clarified with my council Program Director (paraphrased): BACKCOUNTRY--any location in which immediate access by emergency equipment is more than 30 minutes away (ie, the nearest road/access point is greater than a 30 minute hike) TREK--any mobile outing more than 4 days.

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The first year I joined scouts and became an Assistant Cubmaster, we had a Bear den leader go south and abandon the program. We also had a Wolf den which had some problems. The CM and I took over these as and met together (but separate). Many of the requirements from Wolf-Bear are mirrored, just presented on slightly different levels. We were able to use this and ended up saving both dens (recruited new leaders after the year was up). My point is the Wolf-Bear programs are very similar. Bear-Webelos are quite different. For one, Wolf-Bear are signed off by Alela (parents) and Webelos requirements are signed off by the den leader. The differences in these two years is significant. The whole method of the program is different. Webelos dens can go camping without the Pack. And the program is designed to be a prep for Boy Scouts. Webelos work on the Webelos requirements as well as earn Webelos Activity Badges, for which there is no comparison in the Wolf-Bear years. Likewise, the Wolf-Bear programs have elective arrow points, while again, there is no similar recognition on the Webelos level. I would not jump at combining these programs (Wolf and Bear) for the remainder of the year, but if push comes to shove, it is not so bad an option. I would not, however, consider combining Bear and Webelos dens. I would look for other alternatives. Just my 2.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Sounds like some good advice here, especially in regards to Swimming and First Aid; but I view camping slightly differently. Think about this: Swimming and First Aid are vital skills to everyday activities. Being a swimmer can make a difference in the activities in which a scout can participate with the troop (or patrol). And having completed the First Aid MB establishes an assumed level of competency in basic first aid situations, which a scout can encounter in his everyday activities. But consider a few other things. First, camping is something which experience builds the skills (not the skills being required for the experience) Once the camping nights requirement is reached (7+ months in the average troop, if the scout participates in every overnighter), that is when I would encourage this one. By that time, he should have the experience to make this a fairly easy accomplishment. Remember what our founder said (paraphrased): Advancement is like a sunburn, it occurs naturally when scouts spend time in the outdoors. Not to leave the outdoors, but Scouting tries to focus on "moulding" our boys into well rounded young men. For new scouts, look at some easy things they like to do. Do they collect things? Bottles, cub scout patches, or trading cards? Tell them about the collections MB. This is one of the easier ones for someone like this. Find out what their parents do for a living. Maybe there's a badge in which a parent could be used as resource (not a MBC). Does the scout excel at academics or are they active in sports? Maybe they play a band instrument. There are plenty of "easier" MBs the scout may pursue early on, one which match their experiences and interests. And getting them involved in simple MBs early is GOOD! It encourages the scouts by giving them a good grounding from which they can pursue other interests. We had a scout who took the Reptile Study MB as a young scout. At the time he had no interest whatsoever in snakes and their kind. He now owns half a dozen snakes and several lizards. He completed his Eagle just after New Years, is the reptile specialist at a local pet store. He is now 18 and registered to teach reptile studies; at a Troop-Webelos campout 18 months ago, he gave a presentation on snakes (including 2 he had caught), not suprisingly, his handling of the snakes was expert. The Webelos asked some silly questions (like how do you know if it is a boy or a girl snake and such). He answered every questions confidently and directly. One of the Webelos dads is a vet who owns several animal hospitals. He was stunned by this (then) 16 year old's vast and accurate knowledge. He couldn't add anything at all. THAT is the power of the Merit Badge program. As a SM, it is your job to encourage and foster your scouts' interests. Take this responsiblity very seriously. You never know what will come of it.

This is based on something that happened to me about 6 months ago. I wrote it up and used it as a SM minute. Though some of the specifics apply to our troop, and my situation, feel free to insert your own experiences: I was in the break room at work the other day when I ran into one of the managers who is a friend of mine. He was a member of Troop 3 and is, in fact, in the Eagles nest, right over there. He earned his Eagle in 1975, and I was telling him about our recent 100th Eagle Scout on that board. Keith was suitably impressed, but what he really wanted to know was to what patrol did he belong? You see scouting is really not about troops, it is about patrols. All of his most important memories were centered around activities which he did as a member of his patrol. He was in the Warrior patrol, by the way. And you could almost detect a bit of disappointment in his voice when he heard there was no longer a Warrior patrol in the troop. To what patrol does each of you belong? (Wait for reply) Your patrol is your family, your brotherhood. Keith left scouting 30 years ago, but he still has pride in his patrol. In the year 2040, will you remember so vividly which patrol you were in? And what you did as a patrol? Will you recall who the other members of your patrol were? When I was a scout, I was in the Beaver patrol, and I still remember all the members of my patrol: Rick, Gil, Steve, Phillip, Jim and Ty. We all lived within a few blocks of each other, and we used to all carpool together to the meetings. We won top patrol at the council encampment the year I was patrol leader, as well as at the camporee the year before I was PL and the year after. Lets vow to renew our patrol spirit. I want you to work hard to be the best member of you patrol that you can. Thirty years from now, I want you to be proud to say you were a member ofwhat patrol?

I agree with Jet. I use a "rule of 4" when we have group hiking (separate from adults). I also agree with the shakedown. If you miss the shakedown, you go on the "easy" route (unless you have previously gone on the "strenuous" hike). No debate, no dicusssions. Are these two "older" less experienced scouts part of the PLC? This is something the PLC should decide. If they are a part of the PLC but are PLs, then their obligation lies with their patrol.

I have got to try this with my scouts (especially my SPL) But I will have to determine their service. Thanks! A more complete list can be found here: http://www.hurt911.org/investigation/sms-text-message-address.html(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

I tried to do an edit right after I made that post, but it didn't take. I was apologizing for the comment, which just came to mind as I was writing it. Probably too much Hulu.

I hope I did not create that confusion. BALOO, OLS (or ILOS) and OWL are completetly different courses (though there are areas of overlap). Each is inteded for a different audience and serves a different purpose. None is a pre-requisiste or a substitute for the others. BALOO is a good course. It teaches quite a bit about campout planning and administration of outings. Some of this applies to Boy Scouts as well. As an example, I can't off the top of my head, think of any BS level course which teaches how to fill out a tour permit (and explains the purpose of each part of the form). No, it's not brain surgery ("Hi, I'm Dr. Baloo. I'll be doing performing the operation on your frontal lobe today. And Dr. Akela will be assisting with the proceedure. He is just and intern, but he had very high test scores in brain anatomy...."), but it can help. (This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Surprise! You came to the right place, though it is not quite as easy as that. Follow this link to find camps by state: http://www.scouter.com/compass/Where_To_Go/BSA_Camps/ You will likely have to pull up camps by finding the council sites and looking into it. This will take a while. But while you are looking through that, just ask the group here for camps in X states or near Illinois. We are far from there, so I cannot offer you any from experience, but I bet others here can tell you about camps nearer to you. Kudos to your scouts for taking it upon themselves to try new and different places! Ours have found a few camps they like to bounce between, but I they are interested in trying out new and different places.

We do combine out BALOO with OWL training, at least in part. If you look at the material, there is a common ground for what can be several hour of program. We share class time for that and then break apart for the remainder of the material. Once we did this in conjunction with OLS, by "sharing" some of the Round Robin setups. There was a model campsite set up and it was used by OLS and later by the BALOO. Same instructors, different presentations, but it was scheduled in a manner timely for the Round Robin instructors. Likewise, the general knots (OWL) and the Fire basics were shared in this way. This was really not combining course material, but utilizing rescources concectuively (not concurrently) for the greater good. It worked out well, especially in regards to the OWL--after all, the Webelos leaders are presumed to be moving to Boy Scouts soon, so getting them to meet the Boy Scout trainers and Scouters is good networking and preperation. We pitch BALOO as the administration and planning of Cub Scout camping, and OWL as the how-to outdoor skills for Webelos leaders.

One more thing you may try is not "advertising" the other MBU to scouts/units in your district. In our district/council, in spite of a council newsletter, roundtables, and innumerable emails being sent out, I would estimate that 1/2 the units don't hear about some of this level event--in our own district. Squelching the announcements should not be too hard.

I do not see a problem with not running an MBU, especially if it is not wanted by the units. (for those who may want it, send them to the MBU which the other districts are running). But that was not really the crux of your question. This really overlaps with several other topics being discussed currenly in other threads, which is good, as it gives perspective. First, you may want to work to see that MBCs are trained. No, that is not the end-all, be-all answer, but it's a good place to start. Getting the MBCs on board with the process ultimately will provide better service/program to the scouts. Second and just as important (prehaps more so), you need to ensure that the Scoutmasters and unit (advancement) committees are trained as well. This may be a harder nut to crack, but once opened, these may be the people who champion the "right" MB process, fostering an expectation and process in their own units. Doing either of these first two without the other leaves a broken circle, and may cause your effort to eventually loose steam and fall apart. The next question (and I am addressing this now in my district) is how often do you do training? We have done ours once a year, but if a MBC can't make the one session, it breaks the circle (above) and the effort is somewhat meaningless. This is not a lenthy training course, and it can be offerd in a few short hours. Complicating this is the fact that this falls under the training (not advancement) committee, so you will need to work hard to get the training committee working with you on this one. Prehaps the best way to go is to have a training "blitz" with multiple courses being offerd at different locations on different days and times for a month or two. Maybe one concurrent with Roundtable, another at the camporee, a third offered at the leader training sessions or in the room next to Scout Leader Essentials. You get the idea. Another issue is recruiting district Merit Badge Counselors and getting and maintaining MBC lists. This should be a priority as well, and is the responsibility of the Advancement Committee. Likewise, you should have worked with Training committee in advance so that when a new MBC is recruited, you can tell them right away where and when the training will be. There can be a culture surrounding Merit Badges, which may not be a good thing. Working to change this will require a significant amount of effort and perseverence.

In light of these last few posts, let me expound upon my earlier questions a little bit. Who send sends out these emails? And to whom are they send? If it is about money (ex, camp fees), is it sent by the Treasurer, Scribe, CommitteeChairor Scoutmaster? If it is a reminder about a campout, does it originate with the SPL,Scoutmaster,Camping Coordinator (Troop Committee) or PLs? Does every scout have email? Are the adults included also?

Welcome aboard! It is always nice to have a new voice, and especially one who is a scouit with the perspective of our youth.